Serious bible question

[Chad]

if you were faced with the thought of being one of the 3 last humans on earth with no chance of procreating, you might look for options. I think they were looking at it like that and only saw one way to sustain civilization. the fact that there were other civilizations out there probably never occured to them as people of the time saw themselves as the center of the universe and never had cause to doubt that assumption.

 

It doesn't take much time to ferment your own crude beer, only a day or so with the right ingredients. if I had just lost my civilizaton/frineds/wife, I'd be looking to make some beer too, stat .

 

Personally, I think the book isn't supposed to be taken so literaly. Perables, lessons, morals. Not just a pure factual telling of exact events. Even Jesus' stories were often "made up" to make a point. They were told as stories, not as facts and those listening knew the stories were not factual events, just a lesson. The value is in the lesson, not the words.

[MainstreaM]

Humans, even though we have free will, tend to take the easier way of doing things, making decisions, etc. Example: Is it easier to date a woman, ask her to marry you, and then make a lifelong commitment to her OR pull up the interwebs, type in a site, and gander at pornography? Is it easier to scrape by, put yourself through college, and work for the rest of your life OR rob a bank, mug a passerby, or deal drugs? The devil made me do it, nope he sure didn't. Did he make it easier for me? Sure nuff.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

 

 

I agree you can give into temptation but ultimately no matter what the temptation is or who's tempting you it's your fault for making the choice.

 

My question for you is can someone who is not religious still be a good person? Or does choosing not to believe make you a bad person?

Its partly religion that has caused man to bash each others brain out till this day. If one is not religious but can identify good from evil and act towards doing whats right for himself and others, I'd say he is blessed.

[ucw458]

 

I don't know that Uzzah was "bad", he could have been good for all we know. It's not really about whether he was good or bad or what he was trying to do. The rule was the rule - don't touch the ark ever for any reason (my paraphrase). If I'm a good person and I break the law I'm still held responsible .... like, I still have to pay a speeding ticket even if I was on my way to a charity event.

 

 

Fair enough. That is a good point. But what about killing an intruder to save your family? Wont that break gods commandment of "thou shall not kill"? It was done for a good reason but isn't it something that would incur gods wrath against you? Furthermore god kills alot in the bible. Isn't having that commandment a little like saying "do what I say not what I do"?

[techboy]

 

My question for you is can someone who is not religious still be a good person? Or does choosing not to believe make you a bad person?

 

You can ABSOLUTELY be a good person without believing. There are millions of people just like that all across the globe. But, if you put some stock in what scripture says, which it seems you do, God has a final destination for those who believe and a different one for those who don't. God's economy isn't based upon good or bad, but rather what you believe. That's were people get hung up b/c 99% of people think entrance to heaven is based on a tipping scale, and ironically 99% of people think their a good person. I think a big reason for the confusion is that society tends to reward good behavior and punish bad, (it starts with school) so we think "oh, God must work the same way".

[Chad]

ultimately no matter what the temptation is or who's tempting you it's your fault for making the choice.

 

The bible agrees with you. I can think of several examples.

[Chad]

I think the devil is merely a personification of what is in us all. In that sense, the devil is very real, and none of us is safe/immune. We also then have to accept personal responsibility for how we deal with that.

[lionbull]

The will of God is always good no matter what. Some peoples Moses and others had to exterminate. Some reasons were not given for this but they were commanded to destroy the people and their livestock so it was not for plunder or gain. Many of these people were corrupt not just spiritually but physically. The nephilum were in the earth(giants) they had many clans and they sinned against the animals, bred with human woman etc. many of earth's inhabitance were not even truley human hence the flood...

I was thinking the other day why are there no more miracles? real miracles like raising the dead. fish and bread to feed the multitudes etc

Because even if we had miracles we would still not believe today. if there were believers back then when the masses witnessed miracles, parting the red sea etc

then moses goes to the mountain and comes down sometime later and then finds the same people worshipping a golden calf LOL. We been there done that. it is in our nature to be the way we are but if we strive to be like christ we can overcome. Walk by faith not by sight. Faith as a mustard seed, just that little bit is what i strive for.

[techboy]

 

 

But what about killing an intruder to save your family? Wont that break gods commandment of "thou shall not kill"? It was done for a good reason but isn't it something that would incur gods wrath against you? Furthermore god kills alot in the bible. Isn't having that commandment a little like saying "do what I say not what I do"?

 

I'll answer this question, but I want to be clear, this is my opinion, some others here are going to disagree with this. I don't believe the 10 commandments EXCLUSIVELY apply anymore. The word Testament means Covenant, or agreement. The Old Testament is the old agreement, the New Testament is the new agreement. Jesus said himself in the NT that the Old Testament laws were given to be broken so that we in turn would see our need for Him. It gets confusing and this conversation is getting pretty deep ... but I think if someone breaks into your house and you do what you have to to defend your family God isn't going to be too upset with you. It's what we call Grace. So, in a nutshell: OT = rules are the rules / NT = Grace

[Chad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_shall_not_murder

 

In the bible [and in life] there is murder, and there is justified killing. There is a difference.

[ucw458]

if you were faced with the thought of being one of the 3 last humans on earth with no chance of procreating, you might look for options. I think they were looking at it like that and only saw one way to sustain civilization. the fact that there were other civilizations out there probably never occured to them as people of the time saw themselves as the center of the universe and never had cause to doubt that assumption.

 

Personally I have my doubts about lot saying no. In that situation believing you are the only 3 people left on earth people can do desperate things. People seem to accept that part of the story saying they wanted to re-populate the earth. They ignore the incest part because those in the story felt they had no other choice.

 

Another tidbit that never seems to be discussed is how did adam and eve turn into several billion people today? lots of incest had to happen in the beginning for that to happen. And if that story was true wouldn't that mean we are all related?

.

Personally, I think the book isn't supposed to be taken so literaly. Perables, lessons, morals. Not just a pure factual telling of exact events. Even Jesus' stories were often "made up" to make a point. They were told as stories, not as facts and those listening knew the stories were not factual events, just a lesson. The value is in the lesson, not the words.

 

Sadly I know people who wont think for themselves when it comes to religion so they take the stories literally. My own father believes he is not qualified to interpret the bible for himself because he is not a priest. When you get a large group of people thinking that way they will end up doing what one person tells them too,... their priest. For good or bad that has happened many times in our history.

 

 

Its partly religion that has caused man to bash each others brain out till this day. If one is not religious but can identify good from evil and act towards doing whats right for himself and others, I'd say he is blessed.

 

Thank you and bless you too.

[lionbull]

http://en.wikipedia....hall_not_murder

 

In the bible [and in life] there is murder, and there is justified killing. There is a difference.

 

agreed, basically if you plot with guile to murder someone you are guilty. If you kill by accident it's different self defence etc.

[techboy]

I had fun guys, but I gotta go to bed. It's after 1:00 here on the east coast and my 1 year old is going to be up bright and early. I'll check this thread out in the morning ...

 

You ask good questions ucw458.

[boostdquest89]

God is the CREATOR,..... not the DESTROYER, like you seem to be saying

Chad-

[ucw458]

God is the CREATOR,..... not the DESTROYER, like you seem to be saying

Chad-

 

Would you bet your life on that?

 

 

 

You ask good questions ucw458.

 

 

Here's another one. How do people know they believe in the right religion, the right truths? What makes one religion correct and another wrong in people's eyes. What proof to people have to believe their god is the one true god and all others are wrong?

 

I like to keep an open mind. While I could call myself more of an atheist than anything else right now I'm not against listening to others opinions. But regard them as exactly that, opinions.

 

Let me tell you what I believe.

I believe IF god exists our knowlege of him is imperfect. Why, because the stories and myths we have are the products of men and the passage of time. The religion people practice is based on a theory. Impossible to prove yet it's bestowed with absolute certanty. Absolute belief in gods will means there's a reason for everything. And yet you can't help asking yourself how he can allow death and destruction. The truth is many find comfort in religion. It's good to have someone looking after you. But how can anyone truly know gods will? All we have is what's told to us from birth. Told to us by our parents who were also told by theirs and so on. We are taught to believe when we are young and our minds impressionable. When we believe everything from adults is true. And before we grow enough to decide for ourselves that belief becomes a permenant part of who we are. Whether it's true or not. What if we are wrong? How can we be so sure about what we believe? Consider the source of our religious teachings. Are they 100% credible?

[speedyquest]

First off I would like to say bravo ucw for not just keeping an open mind but for allowing for a serious conversation about this without bringing ego's or insults into it. I personally am an atheist and have been my whole life much to the dismay of my mother lol, but unlike some of the people I know who also do not believe in any type of god I do believe that religion does have some kind of benefit. Yes religion causes untold amounts of hardship and death every year all over the world and that is horrible, but it does also have some positives. Its a crutch for people to lean on in hard times, it give some people a moral compass to follow, and sometimes it gives people hope. To touch on the subject you talked about (ucw) about the bible and teachings about god being flawed I agree. One of the only constants when talking about humans is we are all fail-able. We all make mistakes and that is simply apart of being human. Applying that this specific situation and the fact that the bible is a large amount of stories and teachings all written by numerous numbers of people... well I think you see where I'm going with that. Now don't get me wrong though, I do see a value in the bible as a book though. Each of those stories can teach some very valuable life lessons and that is where religion gets its value from IN MY OPINION.

 

Again all of this is simply a humble opinion from me. Im not versed in the history of christianity and have not read a lot of the bible.

 

Allen

[ucw458]

For the record I grew up in a christian home. Also went to a private christian school for 9 years. When I became an adult I did more research and changed my mind about religion. My choice, free will and all. Oddly being atheist allows me to have some interesting conversations with door to door evangelists. This one guy came back to my house 3 times for hours each time because he enjoyed our conversations.

 

Regardless of what we believe we all have some common ground. We are all insane for owning SQs.

[Metric-man]

In answering to your original question

 

http://bible.cc/job/1-12.htm

 

God is God is creator of all existence.

 

Satan is the deceiver.. he pulls no weight... "He is a lie from the beginning"

 

There comes a time when someone invariably brings up the question.. "What is the unforgivable sin?"

 

It is to call something of God's .... something of Satan's

 

To not glorify God to point and blame short comings on someone else,

is in essence that unpardonable sin.

The extent of that idea is you cannot fool anybody like you can fool yourself.

 

It is the war you have in your mind; everyone is capable of great things, or lesser things

and the point being that it is your decision on what you do, what focus you keep

 

If you are a positive person that tries to see the best and at the same time strives to be a better person and control yourself in regards to how you treat yourself and others, and in your truthful to yourself in that assessment, you’re being fearful of God, and are on the narrow path

 

But if you complain, begrudge, quit, and give up, make excuses about yourself and blame and criticize others, have or make little attempt to correct yourself or your friends when you or they make mistakes

or have a general whatever attitude about life , you are on the wide road and are foolish in God's eyes

 

In other religions it is the same.. to be progressive is the correct direction and is the healthy action to take.

To be destructive is counter of being productive, and not congenial to continuance of life.

 

You also have to look at the difference between the human race and religion

In many regards one man’s religion will state that theirs is the only answer.

And yet all have similarities that are unmistakable and belief in monotheism can only concur that all are true and none are false.

It is just that our perception of them as a whole needs adjusting or a better translation.

 

God already has it all sorted out,

we are the ones that just have to have a better understanding.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Metric-man

[chiplee]

Just posting so that three atheists have participated in one thread on SQC. I think that's some kind of record.

[BOHO]

killing isn't the only form of evil. can you kill and still be loving, just, and good? capital punishment comes to mind. So does war. Killing isn't always evil.

 

War example.... Nazi who executed 40 jews and is in a trench on top of you stabbing you to death....Evil doesn't come to mind?

[BOHO]

The will of God is always good no matter what. Some peoples Moses and others had to exterminate. Some reasons were not given for this but they were commanded to destroy the people and their livestock so it was not for plunder or gain. Many of these people were corrupt not just spiritually but physically. The nephilum were in the earth(giants) they had many clans and they sinned against the animals, bred with human woman etc. many of earth's inhabitance were not even truley human hence the flood...

I was thinking the other day why are there no more miracles? real miracles like raising the dead. fish and bread to feed the multitudes etc

Because even if we had miracles we would still not believe today. if there were believers back then when the masses witnessed miracles, parting the red sea etc

then moses goes to the mountain and comes down sometime later and then finds the same people worshipping a golden calf LOL. We been there done that. it is in our nature to be the way we are but if we strive to be like christ we can overcome. Walk by faith not by sight. Faith as a mustard seed, just that little bit is what i strive for.

 

The reason religion doesn't work.....

[lionbull]

 

Would you bet your life on that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's another one. How do people know they believe in the right religion, the right truths? What makes one religion correct and another wrong in people's eyes. What proof to people have to believe their god is the one true god and all others are wrong?

 

I like to keep an open mind. While I could call myself more of an atheist than anything else right now I'm not against listening to others opinions. But regard them as exactly that, opinions.

 

Let me tell you what I believe.

I believe IF god exists our knowlege of him is imperfect. Why, because the stories and myths we have are the products of men and the passage of time. The religion people practice is based on a theory. Impossible to prove yet it's bestowed with absolute certanty. Absolute belief in gods will means there's a reason for everything. And yet you can't help asking yourself how he can allow death and destruction. The truth is many find comfort in religion. It's good to have someone looking after you. But how can anyone truly know gods will? All we have is what's told to us from birth. Told to us by our parents who were also told by theirs and so on. We are taught to believe when we are young and our minds impressionable. When we believe everything from adults is true. And before we grow enough to decide for ourselves that belief becomes a permenant part of who we are. Whether it's true or not. What if we are wrong? How can we be so sure about what we believe? Consider the source of our religious teachings. Are they 100% credible?

 

 

Well if there is not god what did you loose out on? nothing. if he is real what did you gain? everything. read the bible and do your own research. It is important you get accurate knowledge. God ask us to walk by faith not by sight. the knowledge of man is foolishish compared to the creator's so you won't find the answers you seek in your history text book. What other book has actual laws to govern, law of conduct, how treat you neighbour, wife, acquiantance etc. which means you can back up what you say with scripture.

 

Think of it this way if we were to see the end of the world as we know it tomorrow, how would you act. the lessons learned in the bible will teach you the christ like way to deal with adversity. How would you act if you had to take in a bunch of strangers. What rules would you set down in your house. would you send them away? What would you do if your childern are being torchured in front of you. Remember it will be men doing this not cat, dogs, reptile lol. same men who have no believe, no faith. Not to different from many people you know. Could be soldiers too, guys who have families of their own to need to make a living. The lessons you learn will build character so whatever you do you will be blameless if you follow the example of christ. Remember God has his people in different religions, one day you will be surprised who will be next to you praying. He searches the heart, does not matter who you are, what you been through, where you come from.

 

So what is credible? evolution? What will it profit you to believe in that? did evolution make a promise to you? does it love you? what exactly does it teach, I think that is the question you really need to ask BTW. If evolution was accurate there should be a diverse array of advanced beings, evolved turtles, reptiles etc. after all they were around eons and had more time to evolved than we. The planet should be something like what john carter landed on lol. There is always some theory changing or something, kinda like a liar that keeps changing his-story(get it?), the bible is always the same. Read the truth and you will be able to discern the lies. Study the lies and they can change them up to make more lies.

[Chad]

 

War example.... Nazi who executed 40 jews and is in a trench on top of you stabbing you to death....Evil doesn't come to mind?

 

would you be equally evil if you shot him in the heart just before he knifed you? that was my point.

[lionbull]

 

The reason religion doesn't work.....

 

 

lol,

 

what government has worked? this is not about religion BOHO. it is about faith. I am NOT religious BTW. I am striving to be faithful.

[Chad]

At one point in evolution, there was more than one species of evolved ape, and the one we are now exterminated the others. That is why there are no talking turtles, we wouldn't let it happen. We were the most succesful, and thus we will be the last and only.