86FlatValour Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Alright for my senior project I'm rebuilding the motor in my 85.5 and putting it in my 87'. I am looking for 400Hp and 450+ftlb, to be able to 100% complete and totally annihilate, Talons, Evos, Stangs, camaros, and of course the normal Hondas. I also have to be able to keep ahead of my friends 91 Ranger that he is turboing using a thunderbird drivetrain and motor. I want people to run in shock and fright. What will get me there and I want discussions and opinions and if someone has something different then tell why you changed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 an engine bottom end built by Dad Top end - I say a magna M7 head from the aussia manga with its MPI setup dual ball bearing turbo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Alright for my senior project I'm rebuilding the motor in my 85.5 and putting it in my 87'. I am looking for 400Hp and 450+ftlb, to be able to 100% complete and totally annihilate, Talons, Evos, Stangs, camaros, and of course the normal Hondas. I also have to be able to keep ahead of my friends 91 Ranger that he is turboing using a thunderbird drivetrain and motor. I want people to run in shock and fright. What will get me there and I want discussions and opinions and if someone has something different then tell why you changed something. lol sound like your going for the same thing as myself. you'll need MPI, built block, decent header, medium to "man sized" turbo, good standalone ECU. look in the 300whp club to see some examples. Its in the engine and performance modification section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 And a whole lot of luck and determination! lol honestly you might want to consider a 4g64 build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Did you want reliability with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88TSI_Rob Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 You'll need the A-Team, MacGyver, Chuck Norris, and a briefcase full of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 And a whole lot of luck and determination! lol honestly you might want to consider a 4g64 build. ^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 ah man if " i want " only live'd in the real world first off , nothing you do to the block will make even 1 hp diff hp out put is control'd by the bolt ons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Dang dude, get an HTA35r or a borg warner with extended tips. I hope you have enough money for this build. You might not even need to touch the block, but the head is where you will make the power. Just start there. If you have the ability, I'd suggest machining your own head out of a block of aluminum, or adapt a DOHC head from a car with the same cylinder bore spacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxzillian Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 ah man if " i want " only live'd in the real world first off , nothing you do to the block will make even 1 hp diff hp out put is control'd by the bolt ons He could use a crank scraper to free up a few HP. Not that it'll be noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Study the Factory Service Manual engine section for torque values and clearances. Get the block prepared using a torque plate for the bore/hone. Get the Block and head (And timing cover) surfaces checked for flatness . Flat deck is important for the seal > You may wish to Oring your block at this time. (if you plan on running the boost you will need to get @ 400 WHP). For your pistons, 400 is a bit above what you can really reliably use because of the higher pressures. So decide if you want to be around 300 WHP or if you want to spend the extra $$ for forged pistons) (Imho Hyper-U's are not a choice). If you go for Wiseco's or a forged piston, get the machinist to contact the piston supplier. With an experienced builder (Dad?) he will want to know what pressure range/etc you are planning to run. I would build for a lower (no more than 8:5 -1) compression ratio. You could build a flattop piston motor for more off boost response, but your overall static compression should be lower if you want to run high boost. Valvetrain needs prep. You could go with oversized stainless valves and new seats, you could go with stock sized stainless valves (the value is the stem has a smaller diameter = less obstruction and a better transformation the seat (better flow at smaller openings). Valves, springs, and port work is important for getting that power. Springs control the valves. I prefer mechanical valvetrain for any attempts at high power as you can run a more aggressive grind and have less float. U have to adjust the valves but so what 10 minutes and its done. Turbo- Suggest something like a Trendstone performance t3 or t4 flanged manifold. If you can build or get a header great go for it, but log manifolds with a t3 flange and ext wastegate can get u close (if not dead on) 400 hp. Gt37R or similar (or if u have to have mitsu something like a TD06 20G) , and fuel. MPI and standalone management will be manditory. Search the engine and performance forum for some of the 300+ HP cars and some of their builds. You will also need to invest in WB o2 sensor, someone to tune your fuel map, and make decisions about the ignition control you will use, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Buy the turbo that will support your HP goals, then build the rest to support the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Don't expect to have this thing done in your senior year. First off you have little to no money coming in (unless rich parents). Little time with other school work. AND you are young most of the guys making the power you are hoping for are older with a lot of experience and knowledge of what works and how to tune. I'm not saying it's not possible but if all the planets lined up you might have a shot Definitely possible with and engine swap and a good chunk-o-change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 ^ Please don't take what he is telling you the wrong way. He is being honest with you. I have quite a bit of car/gurage/buld/restore time under my belt Id say easly 20 years and this car has been my worst hardest longest build yet. It's been 4 years for mine, and when I started I had almost a limitless budget. Another thing to consider is, You are going to have to do major work to suspension and everything else on the car. Bushings trans and rearend ETC. Your also going to want to upgrade things like the radiator, fans, oilcooler, replace all the lines, get hard pipes, a 3" exaust. Your going to rebuild everything the car you planning to do this with is old and was never designed with this kinda power in mind. Also be forwarned it has goten better but there is still little to nothing avalable for this car. IMHO if I knew then what I know now, I would have swaped a 4g63 into it. There is a huge aftermarket, it's DOHC, and they can be built to way more power (mainly because of head flow but still) Check local laws before your swap to make sure your going to be able to run it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntercooledFlatty Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 you want 400+ HP that's reliable? drop in a 340 :gobot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86FlatValour Posted June 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 (edited) I never said reliable but I want to keep the G54B I no want a 4G64. I don't have rich parents. I have been told by someone that getting MPI is almost automatically 300Hp (though I doubt it). I don't care if the only mitsu. part on the engine is the block I just want to keep the G54B, if it's really that long (I have ALL summer and ALL school year and will have my Stealth to drive. Now I'm taking EVERYTHING here positive because I asked a question since I am fairly noobish about anything above BPU for these cars. I would like a price range for building a G54B to 400HP or a 4G64 to 500Hp. Thank you for all the replies, also Intercooled Flatty we already have an 87' Shetland with a Cam'd 318 in it. Edited June 2, 2009 by 86FlatValour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TainterRacing Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 400hp I will say about $6500-7500 or so if you have a motor that can be rebuild and used 350hp to the wheels would be ezer to do for sure and be more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Ditto to what Tainter said and most everything posted here. Don't forget the big intercooler! Nitrous? :nxsmile: LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 question have you ever driven a 2.6 with 300 or better hp,, reason i'm asking is above 350 hp the car gets useless on the street due to the high tourqe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 And I don't mean don't do it - it's all good if you want it. I think everyone would agree in principle. But basically reliability, streetability - both are going to be issues with 400+ hp in a 2.6 quest. Work on it all day and race it all night if you wish. We're just having fun, or I am at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 400hp I will say about $6500-7500 or so if you have a motor that can be rebuild and used 350hp to the wheels would be ezer to do for sure and be more reliable. One thing they are not pointing out here is ^^^^ this is just motor and related. You are also going to need to redo everything else. Trans, rear, motor trans mounts, suspension, stearing, lines, cooling upgrades water and oil, your going to want to add some gages and things to monitor what's going on, tack on some coin for a dyno tune, ETC ETC So your going to have alot of money tied up in this. Not that it's not worth it but just so you know. And + one for you. You are taking this very well. Honestly you might be able to do it in your time frame of all summer and all year *if you have lots of time to work on it, but how will you work to come up with the coin for it and work on it? It can be done but it's hard. In my youth I did 4 cars this way and it's killer. I went to work 8am got home 6pm ate messed with the dog for a bit and relaxed and went outside and worked on the car till 12-2AM went to bed and woke up for work day in and day out. When your young you can do it but it's killer. O and your friends won't know who you are any more and forget having a G/F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_V Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I could see spending $10-12k by going all out with the motor, management and drivetrain alone. You'd have to go all out with everything. 8.5:1 compression, Forged pistons, pauter or carillo rods, heavy head porting job $$$, aggressive cam, mechanical rockers, something big like a T70 turbo, serious engine management like an AEM, Motec or HKS Fcon V tuned by someone that knows what they're doing, big $$ fuel system MPI setup. You'd probably need a tranny swap too $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Do this: get a wideblock 4g64 and get the brian crower stroker kit. It takes it out to 2.6L and you can use the dohc head. It comes ready to assemble and then you just buy a "stage 5" (heavily) ported 1G head, some kinardly cams (kinardly get it to idle), and a mondo turbo. then DSMlink v3.0. w00t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TainterRacing Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I could see spending $10-12k by going all out with the motor, management and drivetrain alone. You'd have to go all out with everything. 8.5:1 compression, Forged pistons, pauter or carillo rods, heavy head porting job $$$, aggressive cam, mechanical rockers, something big like a T70 turbo, serious engine management like an AEM, Motec or HKS Fcon V tuned by someone that knows what they're doing, big $$ fuel system MPI setup. You'd probably need a tranny swap too $$$ Don't need new rods and just reg wisco pistons will be fine. New Cam and a ported clear water head, MPI and ECU new IC and IC pipes and EX 3in New clutch Stock Tranny will be all right, just dont beat on to much if you keep street tires it should be fine for some time. I think you might be all right like I said with 6500-7500 range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Something else to think about is, alot of this stuff is not redialy avalable IE you can't go down to Napa, Carquest, Autozone, Checker, Advance etc and just pick it up. So your going to be shiping stuff, trying to get stuff from other people, having things made (larger valves, header, exaust). So being your timeframe is short and you can't just wait around till you find that peice at a good price it's going to drive what your paying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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