stariondreams Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 found this on the old webbie ! THE 10 BEST & 5 WORST ENGINES...[to build]Saw this in the 10th Anniversary DSPORT recently & figured it would spark some opinions & conversation. [No Euro's were covered] 10. HONDA F20C & F22C''Powering Honda's 50th Anniversary Drop Top'' -Hot-; good aftermarket supporteasy to work on,Durable factory cylinder linersVTEC,Exellent cylinder head designRoller bearing cam followers,Short stroke=high RPM potential9,000 RPM factory redline [F20C] -Not-; 1st year oil pump was ploblematicOpen deck design, bore center spacing limits overboring options,No iVTEC, sleeving required for overbore 9. HONDA K-SERIES''The Heir to the Engine Swap Throne is Here''-Hot-; 'K' is the new B-seriesiVEC technology, clockwise crank rotation compatable w/more aftermarket transmissions,Coil-on-plug, excellent head design,square bore & stroke demensions,chain driven cams, interchangeable head & block combo's across Kseries engine family. -Not-; Connecting rod upgrade required for serious forced induction,still higher cost $$ to swap & modify relative to the B-series 8. SUBARU EJ257''Scoobie Power W/A Rally Heritage''-Hot-; Low center of gravityBig displacement, factory turbocharged,highh power output,High torque, lightweight,compact design,variable valve timing -Not-; Factory pistons prone to fail when pushed,hard to work on,upgrading head gaskets or camshafts require engine removal,Top mounted intercooler susceptible to heat soak,Boxer design requires higher degree of maching precision,awkward sound due to boxer engine & unequal length manifold design 7. NISSAN SR20DET''A Drifter's Best Friend''-Hot-; factory turbo'dStock block setup capable of more than double factory HP, tremendous aftermarket support [even 10 years after production ceased]Lightweight, Square bore & stoke dimensions, later models have Nissansvariable valve timing[VTC]wide bore centers permit larger bores[when sleeved],dual overhead cams,Coil-plug-ignition -Not-; Alum. block can't be overbored safely more than 1mm,thus requiring sleeving,Valvetrain w/hydraulic lifters tend to fling rocker arms @ higher RPM's[requiring solid lifter conversion],Runs hot at track,benefits from improved cooling,factory throttle bodyis very small 6. MAZDA 13B-REW''Mazda's Rotary say's...,'' ''No piston's no problem''-Hot-; Lightweight, modular designhigh output per/liter, No valvetrain to limit engine RPM,porting accomplishes role of upgrading cams & headwork,High exhaust energy drives masive turbo's, small engine can be positionedlow for balance,Plenty of aftermarket support -Not-; Apex seals are sensitive to detonation, low displacement=low trq output,High heat from engine,limited spark plug life, not fuel efficient,high fuel delivery demands, high HP production demands carefully designedcooling system upgrades 5. TOYOTA 2JZ-GTE''Toyota's Inline 6 Counterstrike''-Hot-; High specific output engine,high potential out,Very strong factory shortblock,Displacement advantage over the RB26DETT,Toyota VVTi, excellent flowing head, Excellent aftermarket support,Coil-on-plug ignition,Dual overhead cams,Square configuration bore & stroke -Not-; Heavy engine,Traction control TB is not good for high performance,Shim over bucket valvetrain inferior to bucket over shim design 4. NISSAN RB26DETT''They Don't call it Godzilla for Nothing''-Hot-; Stout iron Block, itb facilitate improved throttle responsiveness,N1 block offered, Rare GT block[500 produced] strongest RB block,strong aftermarket support, high flowing head, factory block supports800+HP, Coil on plug ignition,dual overhead cams -Not-; Standard oil pump prone to failure[resolved w/factory N1 oil pump(good) & aftermarket solutions(better), heavy cast iron block, no factory variable valve timing,factory turbo's max out @ 400HP,expensive to upgrade 3. MITSUBISHI 4G63T''Mitsu's Spartan's Challenge The Honda Hordes''-Hot-; Strong iron Block can handle 1,000+HPYears of evolving technical upgrades including MIVEC, nearly 20 years of aftermarket parts development, extremely reliable,High-flowing cylinder head -Not-; Heavier than all aluminum 4cyl engines, 7 bolt engines have narrower journals & are not as strong as 6 bolt engines,Hydraulic valvetrain can fail with improperly ground cams,Unnecessary balance shafts 2. NISSAN VR38DETT''America Finally Gets a GT-R''-Hot-; Unsleeved w/factory cranks have proven to support 1,000HPPlasma-lined cylinders capable of handling power, tremendous aftermarketsupport, big displacement engine, Variable valve timing on both intake & exhaust cams, excellent flowing heads,Coil on plug ignition, Dual overhead cams,tremedous aftermarket partssupport -Not-; Plasma lined cylinders can't be overbored w/out sleeving,Rod & piston upgrades essential for significant power increases,Drive By wire throttle control, Engine bay is very tight, difficult to work on,Complicated engine to build, GTR 'tax' means aftermarket parts often have a premium price$$ 1. HONDA B-SERIES VTEC ''The little engine that started a revolution'' -Hot-; 1st mass produced VTEC engine[b16a]widely avail with comprehensive aftermarket support[even 11 yrs after production ended], easy to work on, capable of exceptional HP w/Turbo's,Continues to be the most common swap option, interchangeable heads & blocks across the entire engine family bringing many hybrid engine options,has set many FWD records, Offered in a number of JDM cars making surplusengines from junk yards avail,affordable, Excellent flowing heads, Dual stage plenum, Dual over head cams,factory cranks can handle immense HP, excellent factory bearings,properly sleeved engines can produce 1,000+HP, exceptional high RPMvalvetrain, Boring spacing allows sleeved bore increases to 94mm+,DART offers aftermarket closed deck blocks -Not-; Thin factory cylinder liners don't allow significant overboring,Open deck design lacks rigidity, Only B18c1, B18c5 included a girdle to strengthen the bottom end, Crank rotates counterclockwise limiting the number of aftermarket transmission options,Improper machining & installation of sleeves results in dropped sleeves, head gasket failures or other problems 5 Worst Engines; 5. MAZDA 13B MSP Renesis4. HONDA D-Series3. NISSAN KA24E2. TOYOTA 4A-GE1. MITSUBISHI 4G54B 1. Mitsubishi 4G54B''It Sounded Good on paper, But Failed to Deliver''Hot; factory turbocharged Not; prone to head hasket failure,Dual fuel injectors located behind TB [no port injection]Small turbo, sounded good on paper but failed to deliver,8 or 12 valve cyl head w/single overhead cam,Low flowing head,restrictive intake manifold,restrictive TB 2. Toyota 4A-GE''It's Factual Performance is Much Less than its Fictional 'Hype' ''Hot; Both 4 & 5 valve heads were developed by Yamaha,AW11 MR2 featured 4A-GZE w/Supercharger,Dual overhead cams, direct actuated shim over bucket valvetrain,Iron block, Non interference head Not; Relatively heavy w/limited HP & Torque output,cams & cylinder head upgrades are a must,Limited displacement,World's most 'overhyped' engine [popular w/o warrent,Factory intake manifold is poorly designed [needs ITB's or carbs to make real power]Head gaskets are prone to failure 3. Nissan KA24 E''What goes Wrong when marketing makes Engineering Decisions''Hot; Iron block, durable & toughFree or very affordable to buy,Not half bad when properly turbo'd Not; 3 valve head, Single cam,rockers arms, Low output,Limited peak RPM due to long stroke,Limited aftermarket support,The fact that it should have been a CA18DET or SR20DET 4. HONDA D-series "D list performer, 'you'll Always have more Fun w/Twins''Hot; Decent aftermarket support, VTEC version available,High availability, free or low co$t to purchase,Lightweight Not; Single cam does not allow lobe separation angle change,Low factory output, Low displacement,This is a 'Suckers Build' [its more co$tly to make power than the B-series]Weak rods, small bores, Needs to be sleeved in order to support powerelevels higher than stock 5. MAZDA 13B-MSP ''renesis spells Exodus for the Rotary / Rotary w/o Turbo''Hot; Lightweight, 1st production rotary with side port exhaust,Highest factory rated naturally-aspirated 13B,high specific output, One of the best fuel efficient rotaries Not; Engine overated from the factory forcing corporate buy back program,does not take well to modifications [uncooperative ECU]No factory turbo, Emissions systems cripple this rotary,Limited aftermarket support, lacks torque due to limited displacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twojayzeestarion Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 All Hondas suck period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosFley Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Lmao I love how our engines are on here yet none of the people who contributed to the making of that article have probably ever owned one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah, because G54B only came in TBI turbo. I suspect the author doesn't know what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Suspect? I can say for a fact, those/that writer is an azhole.One glimpse at the list can tell u where his head is.... way up honda's arse. Hence only stool can come out. Surprised ?No motor is more hyped up and overrated than hondas. B16 started what revolution ? What an idiot! 4age is popular because it came in so many flavours and they set benchmarks with 80's tech.Supercharged 1.6 + bolt-ons hit 13s in full street rollas, with tire fryin tq.Folks hit 4,5 even 600+ hp on stock supercharged bottom ends. That's a $47 oem piston at the expensive dealerStreet cars with" mild" setups gone 10s... decades agoWhat was honda doing then ? Other than 'dreaming' up this revolution? Not a dam thing Seen fanboys ruin their rollas with $4000+ FC20 honda motor swaps. Result? a noisy slow peaky pos for the $$$$$$Horrible street car, but it is reliable for a track slut, if that's the intended purpose.Could have just hung a t28/t3/16g on a bone stock hi mile 4age, and "quitely" waxed that pos FC for a 1/3 the costTurbo stock 20v heads make way more power than u can use on the streetCam up 16v have spun 10-11000 rpms. Then u wind up with hondaesque tq band.... why??? Braggin rights?Lotsa torquey 1.8L versions of each, 'built' using the 7AF crankThat is the "real", no hype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I said when i seen the write up that it would get you guys going . I started on the onda scene then moved on to mk3 supras then to 1st gen mitsu's now what i call the red headed step child starquest I found the write up on dsm tuners though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I am @ number 35 now on the list http://www.dsmtimes.org/times.php?Header_Type=Turbo_16g&Page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 wow....yep someone loves them honda's I guess this was a import only engine coverage? Because i dont think any engine in history has been more used/built than the ones at the drag strips...and used in muscle cars.Sbc,Bbc,sbf,bbf,hemi's.....ectI have yet to see a honda beat me in a street race.Yes they are good on gas...thats why they build them....mpg only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 question has any one ever saw a v12 jag with 200k on the clock , max I ever saw was like 175k and that one only had a rebuild cost of $15k actually I have never saw any one actually go thru with a rebuild on one lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSQuest88 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'm with freebird. Where's the v8s? Lol you can basically go to your local parts store and get everything you need to assemble a sbc one piece at a time and have a solid reliable engine. Just make sure you buy a gallon of rtv silicone. A monkey could build one of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPGorBOOST Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I take it the 12 valve G54B was the DOHC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesfer Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) All Hondas suck period! That's just not true, Honda makes amazing motors. If they "suck period!" then I guess McLaren doesn't know what they are doing because they are using a Honda motor in their F1 car now Plus F20 motor held the record for highest HP per liter, only to be dethroned by a Ferrari 458 Whole bunch of people who have never built a Honda motor in this thread... Edited February 12, 2015 by leesfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikconq Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I take it the 12 valve G54B was the DOHC? They are including the jet valve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPGorBOOST Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ahhhh! Ok, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 That's just not true, Honda makes amazing motors. If they "suck period!" then I guess McLaren doesn't know what they are doing because they are using a Honda motor in their F1 car now Plus F20 motor held the record for highest HP per liter, only to be dethroned by a Ferrari 458 Whole bunch of people who have never built a Honda motor in this thread... why build one?just drive it to work....and be happy with it.otherwise....most chics drive honda's to impress each other right????.....lol....jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 That's a good point. SBC and SBF are possibly the most popular engines ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesfer Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 why build one? Because race car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoFab Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) That's just not true, Honda makes amazing motors. If they "suck period!" then I guess McLaren doesn't know what they are doing because they are using a Honda motor in their F1 car now Plus F20 motor held the record for highest HP per liter, only to be dethroned by a Ferrari 458 As much a starquester as I have become, I'm forced to agree with the "fer." Honda does build some remarkable engines...I've built a B series and an F20, and have really enjoyed both of them. Every motor has got pros and cons, and every build is unique to some degree. The B series and F20 series are both very good motors...that's one reason why people lean toward them...just as a lot of people love the 4G63 (built three of those too). Other reasons are, there's a lot of them out there (not so much with the F20), there's tremendous aftermarket support, and they're relatively easy to modify/work on. I'll say this, of all the engines I've rebuilt/had rebuilt, the B series was the easiest to work on, cheapest to upgrade, most reliable, and biggest bang for my buck (4G63 a close second). And of all the engines that I've rebuilt/had rebuilt, the G54B has been the least understood, most difficult to find parts for, least supported (no aftermarket), and quite simply the least bang for my buck. But I like it that way cause only me and you crazy people have one, and that makes it special. Edited February 12, 2015 by NikoFab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carguygibby Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'm about to properly rebuild my G54B so I guess I'll find out how good or bad these motors are!Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Because race car good answer....I have seen some really awesome looking honda builds in the magazines....very fast cars too!But......when I think of a car to drag,drift,street cruise for fun.I want that RWD.....Just kinda limited to what you can do with the front drive.Thats why I dont think of a honda when I think of race car.I have a very reliable toyota FWD..very comparable to the honda's.I drive it everyday.I never look it and think......1.fart can it.2...put a wing on the back.3...drag slicks on the front5...hot wheel stickers down the sideNope......daily drivers are just that...who cares what they look like....Just all buisness.like my toyota, I wouldnt ever think about rebuilding it.Just swap in a new Junk yard engine and go!!! Im more of the muscle car dude I guess.....these newer cars are just throw aways to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Question is..... why would anybody need to "build" a honda motor IF they are so great ? I was shocked at fools paying as much as $6000 for FC20 swap donors.Its a freakin normally aspirated 2 litre, not a flux capacitor ffsLexus V8/rolla swaps done for ~$2000 & change. Lightweight, ultra smooth, reliable... then there's that V8 "music".Hi 12sec capable toyota brand straight out the junkydNo question, hondas r good engines, but hype makes some goons blind and they deserve to pay a high 'stupidity tax'Lists and clowns like this one promote that crap LS would probably top the list, had domestics been considered.... but ya never know with these "fanboys" Edited February 13, 2015 by jinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasQuest Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Typical import magazine setting Honda on a throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leesfer Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Question is..... why would anybody need to "build" a honda motor IF they are so great ? Why would anyone need to build any motor then? That is a dumb question. Why would anyone buy a Ferrari when you can have your a crappy V8 Corolla swap? Not everyone wants to do a budget junkyard build. The F20C makes only 60HP less than the 1UZ with literally half the displacement. That's high quality engineering, and it will last just as long. I redline mine at least 4 times every day for the past 6 years and it's still signing a perfect tune. Edited February 13, 2015 by leesfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Cary Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 If mitsubishi made a V8 I would swap that into a quest. An overlooked engine is the 6G series. You could use a 6G74 bottom end with 72 heads and make some good power. Kinda like what some people with Z31 300zx's using a pathfinder bottom end (3.3) but instead use the 3.0 turbo crank and cams. As for Hondas they make great NA builds. Get a civic hatch, a high compression B series or even a stock K series and it makes a fast track/autocross car. Not to mention the price of B series swaps has come down dramatically. The K series swaps range between 2000-3500 depending on which version and trans you get. My friend just bought a JDM B20 motor for 350 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 If mitsubishi made a V8 I would swap that into a quest. An overlooked engine is the 6G series. You could use a 6G74 bottom end with 72 heads and make some good power. Kinda like what some people with Z31 300zx's using a pathfinder bottom end (3.3) but instead use the 3.0 turbo crank and cams. Reverse that. 6G72 SOHC 3.0 V6 2 valve head6G74 DOHC 3.0 V6 4 valve head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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