ROM reprogramming

[Fanta]

You cant polish a turd.

 

http://www.truveo.com/Mythbusters-Polishin...d/id/1104111933

 

Actually....

[chrisviper]

Thought I might post screen shots of some of the different maps I found in the ecu.

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/Starionfuelmap.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map1.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map10.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map11.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map12.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map13.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map2.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map3.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map4.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map5.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map6.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map7.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map8.gif

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/map9.gif

 

Admittedly, I'm not very certain of which map does what yet, but these are definitely the look up tables in the ecu.

[Dcrasta]

http://www.truveo.com/Mythbusters-Polishin...d/id/1104111933

 

Actually....

 

Wow.. or 0.o Shiny!

 

I stand corrected. But I dont want any polished turds thank you very much..

 

 

 

[Zack_Morris]

Hey chrisviper....mind giving some interpretation of those maps?

[Komeuppance]

Wow.. or 0.o Shiny!

 

I stand corrected. But I dont want any polished turds thank you very much..

 

Can I have his since he doesn't want it??

 

-Robert

[chrisviper]

Hey chrisviper....mind giving some interpretation of those maps?

 

Not sure yet, I was able to visually pick those out of the binary image, but that does not help me to know what they actually do. Thinking about putting a bench test setup together to simulate various sensors etc, then watch the rom traces to figure out the axis, etc. I'm not much with code disassembley, so that would be the way I would have to figure it out. I'm thinking that the 3D map is a commanded air/fuel table, but won't know for sure, will have to experiment to figure that out.

[jahjah]

Not sure yet, I was able to visually pick those out of the binary image, but that does not help me to know what they actually do. Thinking about putting a bench test setup together to simulate various sensors etc, then watch the rom traces to figure out the axis, etc. I'm not much with code disassembley, so that would be the way I would have to figure it out. I'm thinking that the 3D map is a commanded air/fuel table, but won't know for sure, will have to experiment to figure that out.

 

the only XYZ table i can think of is the air/fuel table... like a VE table on megasquirt. its gotta be that, the ignition advance/retard is mechanically controlled by vacuum on a stock motor so thats gotta be the fuel table right?

[dstar88]

Im seriously fascinated by all of this!! great learning criteria right here!

 

 

Max, im going to have to get in contact with you in the future, for when i go mpi i will already have the spark portion covered. but what you figured out will work great with the manifold that i have for mpi (Artys old stock manifold mpi set up). that will literally almost be plug, tune, and play.

 

i already have an extra stock ecu under my bed, all ill need is the ms set up. so if you want to make a few bux you definetly have 1 customer in the future.

 

or if you all end up decoding it, i may be up for lending it out as a specimen and research or what not. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

Daniel

Edited May 14, 2009 by dstar88

[Maxzillian]

Im seriously fascinated by all of this!! great learning criteria right here!

 

 

Max, im going to have to get in contact with you in the future, for when i go mpi i will already have the spark portion covered. but what you figured out will work great with the manifold that i have for mpi (Artys old stock manifold mpi set up). that will literally almost be plug, tune, and play.

 

i already have an extra stock ecu under my bed, all ill need is the ms set up. so if you want to make a few bux you definetly have 1 customer in the future.

 

or if you all end up decoding it, i may be up for lending it out as a specimen and research or what not. :thumbsup:

 

Daniel

 

Yup, I'll be sure to announce of my little circuit hack works for idle control. As for making another case... I'd have to think about it. Over the years I've grown sick and tired of soldering.

 

[macrophage]

Interesting.

[dstar88]

Yup, I'll be sure to announce of my little circuit hack works for idle control. As for making another case... I'd have to think about it. Over the years I've grown sick and tired of soldering.

 

 

 

lol me too.. and i dont even solder that much.

 

 

 

 

Daniel

 

 

[tsi_tom]

Thought I might post screen shots of some of the different maps I found in the ecu.

 

 

 

Admittedly, I'm not very certain of which map does what yet, but these are definitely the look up tables in the ecu.

 

And how do you know this? What tools did you use?

[Starfighterpilot]

Ken, i am curious what they say this chip can do. My comunication skills are poor, it would be better if some one like you called.

 

From my experience the 88 ecu can can handle the stock injectors at max flow, but does seem to struggle with the boost curve of the bigger bolt on turbos. An optimum upgrade would need to work with bigger injectors and probably a different mas sensor.

 

Thank You for the compliment!!!

 

I have been out of town for the past couple of days, and just got back last night.

 

I am probably going to call Technosquare in the next week or so.

 

My questions to them will be:

 

1) "Relatively" Stock Starquest:

 

A) "What HP/torque gains can be expected, and in what RPM ranges, if I sent them my '88 Starion's ECU to modify the fuel maps for the max possible HP/Torque, because the engine does not have to be smogged?

 

I will add that the engine has the BSE and JVE kits, and a MSD Blaster 2 coil (hotter and longer spark duration) installed, and running 10.5 LBS boost; (A rule of thumb that has been on the Starquestclubs Website is that the BSE is good for 15 HP); a good set of injectors and injector clips, and a fresh 12A turbo.

 

B. If they modify the fuel maps does this effect the turbo's responsiveness - if so, at what RPM range?

 

C) How much effect will the modified fuel maps have on gas mileage?

 

D) Changing a '88 or "89 ECU from the 5-speed settings (7.5 LBS Boost)to the Auto settings (10.5 LBS Boost) - how much does the increased boost increase HP & Torque?

 

2) Modified Starquest:

 

A) Because they do not have the Starquest at their facility, how do they determine what values to plug into the fuel maps, if say a Starquester just adds a down pipe, 2 1/2 or 3 inch exhaust system (W or WO a cat installed)?

 

B. If a Starquester goes all out and upgrades his Starquest from a stock engine with a 12A Turbo to lets say:

 

A 19C turbo

 

1G MAS with K&N air filter

 

Ported and polished heads

 

Waste gate set at 14 PSIG boost

 

3 inch exhaust system and a High Flow muffler w/o cats

 

A High Performance Tim C cam w/mechanical lifters, Schneider valve springs and the cam lift and durations specifications provided

 

B. Suppose a Starquester makes the above Mods and dyno's their Starquest and it's all that it can be with the present OEM fuel maps. If the Starquester sent a print out of the dyno results, would this enable them to determine the optimum set of fuel maps tailored to that particular Starquest?

 

3) How do they determine what values the '88 or '89 fuel maps should be altered to.

 

4) How do they alter the Starquest's ECU; piggy back boards, EPROMS or EEPROMS?

 

5) If a Starquester brought his MODIFIED or OEM Stock Starquest to their facility for a custom fuel map:

 

A) Do they have a chassis rear wheel dyno to enable them to modify the fuel maps to provide the maximum amount of HP/Torque for the that particular Starquest?

 

B. If so, how much would this service cost?

 

These are just for starters.

 

Anyone have any other GENERIC questions that you think should be asked?

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

 

 

 

 

[scott87star]

Update?

 

Scott

[shift1313]

You know I still cant get over the mentality on this board some times. I have been a part of this board for many years and I see this all the time. There is nothing wrong with trying to modify the stock ecu and for people to say its a waste of time or meaningless just isnt helpful. At the very least the knowledge of knowing the factory fuel curve is very helpful. One thing about my stock ecu/injector setup is the mpg calculator, gals used etc. This has held me back from going MPI for some time because i want to keep that functionality. Having different options when you decide to modify your car is the best thing for us. Look at companies that have made parts for these cars. They can sell people reprogrammed ROMs for $300 that do what? nobody knows. Or $1000 for an intake manifold because it was the only one out there(tep cannon) 8 years ago.

 

I think there is plenty of potential out there for this idea. And if you dont have any valuable input or willingness to help guide it along I think the negativity should be left out. I can probably count a dozen members that have been badgered off the boards for their ideas/mods to their cars. Attitudes like that are the reason i spend very limited time on these boards.

 

chrisviper, thats great. from what i understood the 3d map is the fuel(ve table). The others are modifiers based on other inputs. Without the bench setup, or tracing pinouts it would be hard to decipher but probably do able. Do you need anything for your bench setup? what ecu did that data come from?

[scott87star]

It's incredibley useful to know what the stock system is trying to do, regardless if your intent is to modifly it or switch to something else. I'm all for helping.

 

Scott

[Fanta]

 

Thank You for the compliment!!!

 

I have been out of town for the past couple of days, and just got back last night.

 

I am probably going to call Technosquare in the next week or so.

 

My questions to them will be:

 

1) "Relatively" Stock Starquest:

 

A) "What HP/torque gains can be expected, and in what RPM ranges, if I sent them my '88 Starion's ECU to modify the fuel maps for the max possible HP/Torque, because the engine does not have to be smogged?

 

I will add that the engine has the BSE and JVE kits, and a MSD Blaster 2 coil (hotter and longer spark duration) installed, and running 10.5 LBS boost; (A rule of thumb that has been on the Starquestclubs Website is that the BSE is good for 15 HP); a good set of injectors and injector clips, and a fresh 12A turbo.

 

B. If they modify the fuel maps does this effect the turbo's responsiveness - if so, at what RPM range?

 

C) How much effect will the modified fuel maps have on gas mileage?

 

D) Changing a '88 or "89 ECU from the 5-speed settings (7.5 LBS Boost)to the Auto settings (10.5 LBS Boost) - how much does the increased boost increase HP & Torque?

 

2) Modified Starquest:

 

A) Because they do not have the Starquest at their facility, how do they determine what values to plug into the fuel maps, if say a Starquester just adds a down pipe, 2 1/2 or 3 inch exhaust system (W or WO a cat installed)?

 

B. If a Starquester goes all out and upgrades his Starquest from a stock engine with a 12A Turbo to lets say:

 

A 19C turbo

 

1G MAS with K&N air filter

 

Ported and polished heads

 

Waste gate set at 14 PSIG boost

 

3 inch exhaust system and a High Flow muffler w/o cats

 

A High Performance Tim C cam w/mechanical lifters, Schneider valve springs and the cam lift and durations specifications provided

 

B. Suppose a Starquester makes the above Mods and dyno's their Starquest and it's all that it can be with the present OEM fuel maps. If the Starquester sent a print out of the dyno results, would this enable them to determine the optimum set of fuel maps tailored to that particular Starquest?

 

3) How do they determine what values the '88 or '89 fuel maps should be altered to.

 

4) How do they alter the Starquest's ECU; piggy back boards, EPROMS or EEPROMS?

 

5) If a Starquester brought his MODIFIED or OEM Stock Starquest to their facility for a custom fuel map:

 

A) Do they have a chassis rear wheel dyno to enable them to modify the fuel maps to provide the maximum amount of HP/Torque for the that particular Starquest?

 

B. If so, how much would this service cost?

 

These are just for starters.

 

Anyone have any other GENERIC questions that you think should be asked?

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

 

Ken - did you ever get to call them

 

I may give them a ring as well - I want to know if say, you buy their chipped ECU, if we at home are then able to reflash the EPROM and load up a different map based on any upgrades someone does.

 

[Coke]

How's this coming along?

[MrWOT]

If the OP is still on this, would you mind putting the dump up on rapidshare?

[Fanta]

You know, truth be told I have been completely sidetracked with other things, and really should contact the people who already cracked the ECU.

 

I'll see what I can maybe do.

[Coke]

I sent a E-PROM 89 ECU to the guys who make DSMLink...and they said they could only play with fuel maps...and it was very primitive. Not something they were interested in moving forward with, and so they mailed it back to me.

[Indiana]

That's right why would they want to. There is no ignition control on that board and no additional outputs to use. It would assume everyone had the same setup what ever that might be in the end. The circuits are slow, they are in the 30+ year old parts bin and the only thing this would have going for it is that the old crusty stock harness that would be missing wires from it anyway could be plugged in. Well big deal. If you got to remove it and patch it and repair it then why put it back in because it just has a couple plugs on it that just happen to plug to some sensor you already have that you are going to get rid of anyway? You don't want a TBi system then who cares if those old slow dead and dying idle motors work with it? This didn't happen in the 90s and there's no reason to attempt it now at all. The stock wiring harness in this car is a piece. Most of it is corroded and cracked, the plugs missing or hacked. There aren't enough injector driver wires. You'll end up if it worked with something that only controls fuel. There still isn't a manifold or sensors for it and then the harness isn't going to work with it. If anyone wants to make an mpi conversion simple then just sell an adapter pigtail with labeled wires to connect to a stock ECU harness after you pull the pins out of the plugs and use them in their new plug-n-play Megasquirt ECUs. Who would end up spending money on this when their 25 year old crusty stock harness is inferior? If you want to pull a junkyard stock, not even a turbo, DSM harness you can get the MS kit to use that harness and many of the sensors just plug in or you swap them out. http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diypnp-nippon-denso-52pin-unassembled-kit-p-390.html Ask DIYautotune if they want to make one of those kits for our ECU plugs. You'd have to let them use some of the wires you aren't using for injector drivers like the ones for the EGR solenoids etc. and you'll need some ignition wires too. Sorry this isn't about trying to salvage a stock ECU maybe it helps, maybe not.