Pr4mnceMan Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Has anyone tried using a 1G ecu for a MPI EMS? I've owned both, and besides having to make some sort of crank sensor and using 1g coils I don't see any other wiring issues. Just run a few wires for 2 extra injectors, and the wires for a crank sensor/coil packs, and use factory harness/converted to a 1g pigtail and you shoudl be set correct? I'm just debating cost here, I haven't decided if this will work or not, it was just a thought, but maybe someone on here could shed some light on something I am missing. If I don't go with this system, I have decided to go w/ the SDS system and continue using my distributor. I can get an ECU and pigtail for free of charge, so that is a much cheaper set up by far!!! But, we all know what cheap leads to 8 out of 10 times!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tux Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 wouldn't you run into issues being that the 1g dsm is 2.0 liter and the displacement on the g54b is 2.6 liters? so wouldn't the 1g be setup to flow fuel 2.0 liter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 fuel adjustments are made in accordance to air (the more air coming in, a proportionate amount of fuel will be used). correct me if i'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeaston Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 The actual fuel flow isn't the issue, injector size can take care of that. Â the problem is that the fuel map will be wrong. Â Unless you have a way to remap the ECU, you'll never get it to run really well. Â The fuel map is a table of RPM and load values that is defined by your engine's efficiency at each point. Â The ECU reads RPM and MAP then looks up the engine's efficiency at those values then calculates how long the injectors need to be open to supply the correct amount of fuel. I take that back. I forgot that we were talking about a MAF system, not MAP. They measure airflow directly, so the ECU might actually do a reasonable job with the G54. You may still run into problems with all the corrections(air temp, engine temp, TPS-acceleration enrichment, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 i think you had it right the first time eric. even with the maf setup i think the rpm values are gonna give you trouble since the 4gs rev out way different. There has been talk of it but in the end it would probobly be less hassel for stand alone. Now if you have a couple turbo 1st gen ecus laying around go ahead and try it. Does the first gen use the ecu to control spark as part of its input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stAir Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 i brought this up a while ago. it turns out that what will mess you up in the distributer. the 1st gen runs coils so the computer controls ignition and we have no way to hook that up.... secondly for get using the coils unless you can do some serious custom work on the head. you would need to mount a sensor in the distributer location for tdc and i believe cam position. but i know both are light sensitive so you would have seal it perfectly.... easier to just bolt on a unit made for our rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Melayanton is doing this.. He's using a DSM ECU with a intake manifold from a Mitsu. 2.4L 4g64.. He spoke about it briefly when he stopped here on his way to Florida.. Should be interesting to see, I don't doubt him one bit ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJpowerHaus Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Get a welder and try it.. with an air fuel adjustment I'm sure you could get it pretty close. Using the DSM harness on an MPI project is a great idea Shelby told me about back when i was wiring up my car. The wire lengths would be pretty close to what my car has now and I didnt need to lengthen but maybe 10 wires for the TB (which was moved to the front of the intake). I'd stay away from the DSM ECU if you want to run on the 2.6. You'd need some bandaids to get it running a good A/F and, for the cost, you could get a decent standalone ECU and wire it up to that... or you could spend twice as much in the long run on a bunch of bandaids to get your fuel and spark control where you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 melayanton is doing this exact mod, but its not so easy. the cam trigger isn't so easy to make. the rest can be made to work easily. he moved to florida temporarily so his car is just sitting half way done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 I bought a donor dsm ~2yrs back to strip entire electronics for starquest project. Curious how the knock sensor will "see" 2.6 timing chain noise, since its 'tuned' to a timing belt motor. Cam angle sensor is no biggie. You can trigger it off cut down 2.6 distributor. Heck, I've seen a buddy recently grind down a cas shaft, stick a 3/8 drive 14mm socket on it and have the cam bolt turn it! Add up the safc + logger/palm + hacked mas + dsm electronics.... vs Hack a oe 2.6 intake and run sds fuel only = cheaper, less fabrication, more tunability, etc... Better economy and performance for the dollar. The attraction to thedsm for me was that I would run the whole starquest using it - engine and cabin loom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 the distributor and cam do not spin at the same speed, so you can't just pick up from there without electronically modifing the signal. melayanton was making a contraption that picked up from the back of the cam where that rear cam seal normally sits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 >>"the distributor and cam do not spin at the same speed" oh, they don't ?? lol. Think about it guy. diz must be directly in sync with valves events or how else would motor run ? You can drive a cas off either. I posted driving one from rear of the 2.6 cam years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr4mnceMan Posted August 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 Just for the record I ordered the SDS system and a sheet metal intake, still waiting on machine shop to finish prepping my bottom end so she still doesn't run. For as much time that I'd have in doing something like this, on top of the less tunability factor, this idea just wasn't for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 on the dsm the dist runs off the intake cam dead off the back of the cam,, another option is the magna dist, it has a tdc trigger built in ,along with the ign trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 any idea what magna dist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melayanton Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 >>"the distributor and cam do not spin at the same speed" oh, they don't ?? lol. Â Think about it guy. diz must be directly in sync with valves events or how else would motor run ? You can drive a cas off either. Sorry Jinx but I gotta defend my buddy Art on this one. The distributor does not turn at the same speed as the Camshafts. The distributor is overdriven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 an easy way to tell would be to tkae the dist. off and compare the size of the gears. of one is half the size of the other, then they do not go at the same speed. or just read: for every 2 rotations of the crank, there is 4 spark events. the distributer does indeed have to coincide with the cam. it goes at the same speed as the cam, which is: 1/2 the speed of the crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev_rm Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Uh, the cams and dizzy always rotate at the same RPM, 1/2 of crank. The problem with this swap is that the VE table's are gonna be different. You'd need a MAFT to get it golden methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev_rm Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 or standalone, as Chad alludes to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Uh, the cams and dizzy always rotate at the same RPM, 1/2 of crank. They sure do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 there's always the uncertainty that the dsm knock sensor will haunt you, even with the "tricks". Its a matter if its worth your time to find out. It was easier for me to find another use for the dsm loom, so I did. Then consider the aging dsm sensors, loom, etc.. and it can be a finiky bas-turd when its ready too. A $640 sds fuel only, adapted to a hacked stock intake makes a powerful 2.6 setup, and you still can tweak' a starquest ignition curve, rather inexpensive. Should have no probs tuning you to the 12.0 zone. I posted a link to a full wt, daily driven 4cyl 2.3sohc ford that ran 10.8s with a $650-699 standalone tuned by the owner, first attempt! There is another that costs ~$750 with datalogging, needs laptop too. Add $250 for wideband (included). Autotune available also. For this kinda money, you may as well bust it wide open, eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 there's always the uncertainty that the dsm knock sensor will haunt you, even with the "tricks". Its a matter if its worth your time to find out. It was easier for me to find another use for the dsm loom, so I did. Then consider the aging dsm sensors, loom, etc.. and it can be a finiky bas-turd when its ready too. A $640 sds fuel only, adapted to a hacked stock intake makes a powerful 2.6 setup, and you still can tweak' a starquest ignition curve, rather inexpensive. Should have no probs tuning you to the 12.0 zone. I posted a link to a full wt, daily driven 4cyl 2.3sohc ford that ran 10.8s with a $650-699 standalone tuned by the owner, first attempt! There is another that costs ~$750 with datalogging, needs laptop too. Add $250 for wideband (included). Autotune available also. For this kinda money, you may as well bust it wide open, eh. Frank - V8_Slayer SDS 4-D (fuel only) 20G Modified STOCK intake Mid 12's on manual tranny. High 11's on a Mopar auto tranny. SDS fuel only sure can do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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