StarquestRescue Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) Currently i an running a 1200 primary and a 2000 secondary. The car really need more like 4 1000's with a stand alone ecu. Forget same size injectors, that is so 15 years ago. Only a stand alone can properly fuel same size injectors in a 87-89 tbi car. Edited May 6, 2013 by StarquestRescue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Looking good John!Spring dyno day you say? hmm .. wishful thinkingI haven't had any real time to play with my car since the last dyno debacle. Hopefully sometime this summer I can answer your M-P-Why question a little more thoroughlyI still made more torque Mike, You know that Magna can't hang with a 52 mm short runner intake. And don't make me have to put the big dog on. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/T3%20Turbo/DSC03235_zps0423e0f7.jpg I'd find a way to drop that base pressure. Lower the better. Also, you lose control at 90% duty cycle cause the injectors are just open at that point, letting that 80psi of pressure do its thing. And shouldn't you be able to use some bigger injectors? I had 1300cc high z injectors in my old car. you could use one of those as the primary, and a 2150cc secondary. or something like that.Tech, other than safety and fuel pump life, why would i want to lower the fuel pressure on a car that has undersized injectors to begin with? Yes i know they dump fuel at high duty cycle. When i did the 379 i still had control of the afr. I have already just thrown more boost at the car to match that fuel to get the last 20-30 hp. I did find a 2350 natural gas injector. But it is expensive and the fitment is always an unknown with different brand injectors. 3 injectors are an option, as i already have most of the parts to do it. But i have safety concerns with a injector in the ovc pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMNDSTAR87 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) bro your car is the one that holds me back from going MPI so I look forward to your postsJust wondering why you don't use the versafueler and run multiple injectors..I see you have concerns about injectors in the OVC pipe...what is it that bothers you about that setup? What about drilling each intake runner for it's own injector..I am running a single primary(1-1000ish) and 3 secondaries(2-550's/1-580ish) off my Versafueler and although it has not been roadtested yet I do not see any issues but we will see.Gig out. Edited April 14, 2013 by DMNDSTAR87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I wasn't worried about safety, if you have steel fuel lines or braided/hydraulic hose for fuel, there's no problem. I have been told by tuners that lower base pressure is desirable. You could get a nitrous nozzle and spray in extra fuel, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Just wondering why you don't use the versafueler and run multiple injectors..I see you have concerns about injectors in the OVC pipe...what is it that bothers you about that setup? What about drilling each intake runner for it's own injector..Gig out.When i bought the versafueler that was my plan. But it worked so well there was no need and i already had a 1050/1800 combo at that point. That combo was preety much on workable with out the peak and hold injector driver box. Ever have your over the valve cover pipe blow of the tb at 20 plus psi? Where do you think the fuel from the injector in the ovc pipe is going to go? It is not all going in the engine. Most off the aic pipes i have seem are made to just slip the hose over the injector inlet and clamp it on. What if it blows off? That fuel is going towards the hot turbo. Those problems can be over come with more positive connections. But that takes time and money that could be better put towards a stand alone. Even if i could take my fuel pressure down to 40, at 33 psi pre throttle body my fuel pressure will be likely be in the 70's With just two injectors, if one fails the motor is more likely to not get enough fuel to fire (or hurt itself) and just fall on its face. With 3 or more feeding a tbi, if one fails the motor may continual to run in a dangerously lean condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 You could get a nitrous nozzle and spray in extra fuel, haha.Pretty old school ideal. It takes a controller, like a meth system, not really cheep. Since the ecu controls the injectors based on airflow, if another system picks up part of the engines fuel demands. The air flow signal to the ecu must still be tuned still lower from that point on or the injectors duty cycle will still max out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Well the spring dyno day was saturday. I knew i was going to have to run the injectors wide open and in the past that would often induce a misfire. I have been wanting to try this coil for awhile. The car likes it. Last run was 29 psi tailing off to 28 psi. Injectors were maxed out. Some one pointed out the date stamp is wrong. It was wrong last fall as well. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2013/DSC03289_zpsfe4dd388.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2013/DSC03292_zps7a67b42b.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2013/DSC03278_zps6e503dcf.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2013/DSC03280_zps497d124a.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2013/DSC03284_zpse1584a4f.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Phil Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 John, get that car in the 11's already! hahaha As I told you earlier, congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 John, get that car in the 11's already! hahaha As I told you earlier, congrats. You know the difference between a 300 hp quest and a 400 hp one? Answer. None they both run low 13's LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Damn ... Way to set the bar high! Great job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Bravo John!Great to see a 400whp tbi quest finally...never thought I would see one with stock ecu though! haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr-starion Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 just when i thought i was catchin up to you sqr, you just bumped it up a notch lol. good job, i dont think ill be able to get up to 400 whp:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMeyerhoff Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Pretty remarkable. Bye bye tri-y poor fuel myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMNDSTAR87 Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Killer numbers bro.....you do us TBI guys justice....Gig out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taeisallin Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Great job John. Cant say enough about your car and the dedication it took to get there. hopefully see the car breaking well into the mid 400's next time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Maybe you could try something like this... http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q714/Luke_Tainter/Montero/IMAG1864_zpsd4388fa5.jpg http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q714/Luke_Tainter/Montero/IMAG1847_zps934bf48e.jpg http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q714/Luke_Tainter/Montero/IMAG1882_zpsa4a28cad.jpg http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q714/Luke_Tainter/Montero/IMAG1867_zps2e63495d.jpg Just an Idea (tell you the truth I wouldn't try this till I know the results of how my car will run lol) Edited May 2, 2013 by Lizzord30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 This thread has helped a lot in my choices for my build. Thanks SQR! Hope to see you at PF13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuze Posted May 14, 2013 Report Share Posted May 14, 2013 SQRescue, you are the data master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screemin eagle Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Sweet numbers SQR. What does the stock ecu do when it senses knock? Does it pull timing through the vacume advance some how or does it flood with fuel? I've always been curious about that. Also what do you guys do for spark plugs and gaping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 The knock box can pull 5 or 8 degrees of timing I think. On my MPI E85 car I used heat range 7 NGK plugs gapped around .025-.027". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted May 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the kind words guys. Sweet numbers SQR. What does the stock ecu do when it senses knock? Does it pull timing through the vacuum advance some how or does it flood with fuel? I've always been curious about that. Also what do you guys do for spark plugs and gaping?The knock box can pull 5 or 8 degrees of timing I think. On my MPI E85 car I used heat range 7 NGK plugs gaped around .025-.027".The correct answer is the knock sensor can pull 12*. I suspect it picks up fause knock and pulls that pretty early. The vacuum advance / boost retard actuator can retard the timing 7-8* per the fsm. Mine pulls 11* I run the ngk 7031's gaped at .035. I think i tried .030 once and saw a slight improvement. Turbo v8 guys go as tight as .018. Probably some thing i should try. Edited May 24, 2013 by StarquestRescue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screemin eagle Posted May 26, 2013 Report Share Posted May 26, 2013 Pretty cool how they mechanically retard the timing. Thanks for the knowledgable answer. In the dsm world stock gap is .043 IIRC. I run .022 for 25-30 psi. The plug is also one heat range colder of a plug. It might benifit you as far as smoothing your graph with a tighter gap and a plug that has the electrode a little more recessed. I'd be willing to be your spark is arking to the head before it even gets to the electrode. A friend had a similar situation with his big hp 1g dsm. The tuner recommended a BR plug vs the BPR and it smoothed his graph completely out and picked up 8 whp. For you it would be a ngk 5122. Just some food for thought. I really do look forward to seeing all progress with the car. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted May 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 The turbo v8 guys like non projected tip. I was thinking the 7031 were listed as semi projected, but this link does not say that. The 5122 comes allready gaped at .032. One of the e85 carb builders swears by a pig rich tune and hotter plugs to light it off. 7031 http://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9603 5122 http://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9542 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jszucs Posted May 29, 2013 Report Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) One of the e85 carb builders swears by a pig rich tune and hotter plugs to light it off. So do the old harley guys 50's-early 70's But the pig rich was for it's cooling effect more so. Edited May 29, 2013 by jszucs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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