Atlanta What the heck is going on???

[Burton]

Yes, equipment is huge. If you have the best winter tires and do evrything right you'll be in way better shape than the next guy. The people down south don't have that stuff, or at least don't get that stuff. I wpuldn't either... why spend the money for all that winter gear that you will use 5-10 days over the next 10 years.

 

That said. The greatest equipment in the world will not make any unexperienced person a good winter driver.

[Starion86ESI]

That is less then 10 miles from wrngwae and my house. That was the result of a white out from lake effect snow. Sometimes with lake effect it is only snowing in a consintrated area. One Sunday a few years back we got 20 inches of snow in one day. Drive 10-15 miles either direction there was no snow.

 

That happened to me at the beginning of this winter when I drove to Detroit from Chicago to pick up a bunch of starion parts.

[Edde]

Physically, we're in the middle. We've always had snow in varying amounts from zero to dust to feet. So we were taught to drive in it. Keep lots of space, don't spin, and DON'T get caught close behind some non-driver on a hill. If there's any question about the dude in front of you, slow down and wait for him to clear the hill or slide halfway down and out of your way before you blow around him.

 

Our problem is very few people are from here, everyone is just passing through. And from the looks of it they all come from someplace it doesn't snow.

[jszucs]

Yes, equipment is huge. If you have the best winter tires and do evrything right you'll be in way better shape than the next guy. The people down south don't have that stuff, or at least don't get that stuff. I wpuldn't either... why spend the money for all that winter gear that you will use 5-10 days over the next 10 years.

 

Which is fine... but when it does YOU STAY HOME....... period. It's not like you don't have instant access 24 / 7 to weather satelites, radar stations and advanced computer models. Take a look, if you see it comming and your not setup for it.... Just stay home.

[Starfighterpilot]

I drive on solid ice all the time and have 0 problmes Infact ive frozen my whole driveway into an ice rink so we can skate for a few years now...... because I use real winter / mountain rated tires. You don't need chains to hill climb, just tires made of a compound that warms itself properly, and skinny enough to cut in. At most if you have something majorly missweighted (like a truck) you will have to make a weight box and play around with weight and distrobution. Do both and you will be fine. I have driven in show 1/2 way up my doors just plowing it out of the way.

 

 

My '76 Dodge was a D 200, 10,000 GVW, 2 wheel drive pick up, Mopar 440 V8 modified for low end torque, with a 1974 Granny 1st gear A-833 4 speed, Dana 60 posi dif with 4.11 gear ratio, 10 x 16.5 Goodyear A/T tires in the front and 12 x 16.5 Goodyear A/T tires in the rear. I had 4 sand bags which weighed about 50# each, over each rear tire in the bed when we went into the snow. Plus I had snow chains for the rear tires (which cost about $400.00 for the set back then). When I lived in Sacramento CA, in the late '80's, we'd take her up into the the snow in the Sierra Nevada mountains onto the side roads/trails off of US 50 & around Lake Tahoe, in the winter for craps, giggles & fun, and occassionally pull out stuck 4 wheel drive pick ups. Of course tire technology back then was not what it is today. But she would plow her way through snow 1/2 way up the doors too, while pulling out a stuck 4x4 behind her. What do I attribute her pulling power in the snow to - low RPM engine torque, the LOW gear ratio at the rear wheels and ESPECIALLY the snow chains. Granted that's not driving on ice, but as long as I had the sand bags in the rear of the bed and the chains on, I wasn't reluctant to drive her on icy roads in the Sierra's too, I just had to be extra careful so she wouldn't spin out.

 

 

Here's a picture of her with a lot of camping gear in the bed in the Blue Mountains in WVA in the summer of '94

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Starionpilot/Kens%201976%20Dodge%20Pick%20Up/DaBeast1992.jpg

 

 

Your example of the 1 ton with off road tires.... off road tires are just as bad and can be worse if they are not made of a compund designed to warm itself in cold temps. Typically off road tires are also wider and you want skinney tires for winter so they cut through and in. Problem being when it gets to about 50 (pavement temps) you need to get them off or they will melt in a few thousand miles.

 

Yup you're right!!! However my son-in-law didn't have a traction problem - his problem was getting through the backed up, snarled, stalled car traffic which couldn't go up hill on the icy roads.

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

[jszucs]

 

 

Yup you're right!!! However my son-in-law didn't have a traction problem - his problem was getting through the backed up, snarled, stalled car traffic which couldn't go up hill on the icy roads.

 

For What It's Worth.

 

KEN

 

Now that is what im talking about. And that is EXACTLY the reason I am lobbying for extremly harsh penalties for anyone going out and not staying where they are at when it gets nasty. They just get in the way. Not only in the way of those who did prepare and can drive int it, but also the crews cleaning it up.

 

Look at Germany. No snow tires = no drive in winter.

[BC_99]

Some people don't have that luxury. In my industry, prepared or not, you had better be getting to work. I don't know about you guys, but I like having a home and other nice things, so I get in my truck and haul my butt to work.

 

BC_99

[Burton]

Some people don't have that luxury. In my industry, prepared or not, you had better be getting to work. I don't know about you guys, but I like having a home and other nice things, so I get in my truck and haul my butt to work.

 

BC_99

 

 

Yeah, I'm guessing most of the people down south stuck on the roads were going to and from work, not running to 7-11 for a Slurpee.

 

All our TV stations were telling people to stay home, but my wife's job was not saying the same thing. She went to work, and even with more than 10 years winter driving experience in MI and brand new all season tires on her FWD Sorento, her 35 minute commute turned into 3 hours and 10 minutes. There were accidents on the interstate every 1/4 mile, and accidents at about every exit, most of which kept cars from leaving or entering the interstate.

[TexasQuest]

This was us here in north texas a month ago lol.

[D3UC3S]

I live here and survived the trip home. A 1 hr trip took me 11 hrs. I almost had to bail 3 times. I left conyers at 12:45 and made it to Woodstock 11 hrs later. No amount of planning could have prevented the massive swing north that the storm took. I drove the wheels off my Chevy 2500 service van and somehow by a miracle made it to my house. At one point I was boiling the rear tires off and a state patrol asked me if I needed help. I never let up and weaves and drifted through the lawlessness and barely made it home. Thousands of cars stranded wherever they stopped and thousands of people walking from crashing or running out of gas. It was like the apocalypse. GA is not prepared like the north, we don't care how cool your rust buckets with winter tires are. 4 times in 10 years does not justify your temper tantrum about skills/equip/boohoo...

 

Pedal down and aim it towards the ruts and away from scattered wreckage. It was an experience I dominated and will never forget

[BC_99]

^^Spoken like a true survivor^^

 

You weren't here, so you don't know. In the words of Ogre...

 

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt93/BC_99/beatitnerd_zps9de40938.jpg

 

BC_99

[Shelby]

just like florida we have nothing to deal with snow or ice on road ways,, theres nothing the state

can do except close the roads

[DMNDSTAR87]

I HAVE LIVED IN THE NORTHEAST MY WHOLE LIFE AND IN THE 25YRS I BEEN DRIVING I ONLY BEEN STUCK ONCE.IT WAS THE DAY AFTER I BOUGHT MY STARION AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT WAS THE WORST VEHICLE I EVER DROVE IN THE SNOW.I NEVER DROVE IT IN THE SNOW AGAIN.THAT BEING SAID I HAVE BEEN IN FLORIDA IN RAINSTORMS AND ACTUALLY PULLED OVER CAUSE I COULD NOT SEE AS OTHERS WERE PASSING ME.ITS ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE USED TO.COLD CLIMATES PEEPS ARE USED TO THE SNOW.HEAD SOUTH AND U ARE USED TO SEVERE RAIN.I HAVE DRIVEN IN MANY RAINSTORMS BUT FLORIDA RAIN WAS BRUTAL.THATS JUST MY OPINION.

GIG OUT

[pure_insanity]

Southerners: don't let some smack talking by some Yankees get ya down. It's all just jealousy. I've spent 3/4 of my life in snowy climates, and it's simple... the north is prepared, and the south is not.

 

 

Up north, they have all the good salting and snow removal equipment, and kids are even taught about winter driving in driver's ed. They get weeks of experience driving in it every year. It is a cold, miserable experience. Due to all the gray and cold people get depressed and wish they could eat a bullet as they anxiously await the arrival of spring in June. But, that's how it is when you live up north. What they don't tell you about is the first 2 weeks of winter driving when even people who've driven in dozens of winters, forget what to do when it gets slick out. The first couple weeks of slick driving and the deer rut are the two times of the year where body shops are overwhelmed.

 

Down south it's different. There's no winter driving education, and there's no snow removal equipment. San Antonio has 4 salt trucks. It is a much larger town than Grand Rapids, MI where I'm from, yet last I knew GR had close to 400. Southerners rarely get to drive on this stuff, so of course they don't know how to do it. I bet if the southerners had 2 weeks every year to re-acquaint themselves to slick driving like the people up north, there'd be no issue. However, down here the big snow storms melt off in a couple of days. It's hard to get experience in winter driving when you only do it 2 days every 5 years or so.

 

I've been in TX now for 6 winters, and we've had snow once 1/2 inch with ice underneath, and then last week which was just an ice storm... the ice was 3/4" thick on our Kia in places. Both events pretty much shut down the city. I10 and I 35 closed, but that was because they were covered in ice, and they didn't have enough salt trucks to get rid of the ice. Both days, by noon it was all melted and life returned to normal. The problem is, in the south, 9 times out of 10, ice is the problem, not snow. Ice was the problem up north too. Some snow is no biggie, but have a 1/4" layer of ice under that snow that the salt trucks haven't gotten yet, and there's cars all in the ditch. It's always ice down south... even when it snows. The snow melts a little when it hits then turns to ice. People in MI crash on ice with EXPERIENCE driving in the winter... What do you think will happen when people who don't know how to drive in it have to?

 

I think it all comes from jealousy... I know when I was in MI, and the south got hit, I'd smack talk my friends about it, mostly because it was the only time I could mock them for their weather, since it's gorgeous the rest of the year.

 

 

thank you burton.

 

and just to add to this,(no one take direct offense) ive been a body man most of my life and it never ceases to amaze me that every damned time it snows i hear some jackhole yankee saying how southerners cant drive in the snow. a week later im fixing his car because he got his dumbarse out and crashed it just like all those people who dont know how to drive in the snow.

so to all the fart knockers who think they can drive in it, come see us the next time it snows, body men in the shouth need some more work.

[wolfsquest]

Alright, here's my 2.6 cents worth, since I WAS out driving in that nonsense (actually, I was driving INTO it from Charlotte, N.C.) slow down, take a little more time, an just do your best to be safe in a bad situation (yes, I drive an 18-wheeler.).

[Fanta]

So, here's the issue on that traffic issue.

 

All the metro Atlanta schools were still in session. They weren't cancelled, so parents went to work. Metro Atlanta has ~5-6 million residents. It's a commuter city, with little in terms of public transportation.

 

Snow starts coming in. Schools annoucing they're closing early.

 

6 million people start a mass exodus on an infrastracture that honestly has a hard enough time supporting it as it stands.

 

I left my job in Suwanee, GA at 12:30, and flurries just started. I have summer tires - rarely does it stay below 45*F for very long in Georgia. *Maybe* a month, two tops. 20 minutes later when I went over a bridge at 20mph as the flurries were starting up, my Miata went 100% sideways. As in my traction control didn't even register any differential in wheel tire speeds. The bridge was already covered in a thin layer of slush and ice. I spent the next 300ft fishtailing between two lanes just sliding, not using the brakes, not using the throttle, because the road had become that dangerous in that short amount of time. I was fortunate that I didn't go off the bridge, nor did I hit the F-150 that was in the lane next to me when I ended up sliding into his lane going the other direction.

 

So, the highways had the same problem. 40 snow/salt trucks, who were in no way told to go ahead and salt ahead of time. ~4 million cars on the highways, in a situation that as soon as the flurry hits the ground, it melts into water, and with the dropping temperatures, just refroze back into ice. Also, what most people up north fail to realize is that Atlanta is nothing near flat. There's hills everywhere, even in the downtown proper - and the city itself isn't in a grid layout, streets constantly weave and turn.

 

I had friends who on a normal day, takes 10 minutes to get to my townhome from their work, it took them 4 hours due to the road conditions and ultimately, traffic congestion. Ice was everywhere. Going up my driveway I got sideways. Said friend, who drives a 2012 Charger. arrived and pulled up into the driveway over snow. 2 hours later his Charger had slid back 3 feet and out into the street because where he had driven over the snow? All froze into ice.

 

So be glad that the ground up there gets cold enough for snow to stay snow, and not for snow to melt, freeze into ice, and then get covered by snow

 

and jzucs - you say stay at home - for a lot of people, that isn't really a reasonable option, unless you have certain jobs ( e.g. IT work remotely, or understanding managers... which is rare ) - and Tuesday morning, the skies were pretty much clear ( we were all aware it was moving in, but it started a lot sooner than what was anticipated ). Also, winter tires in Georgia? You're silly. Today ( Saturday ) its going to be 65*F. Georgia very rarely gets this kind of weather, hence why I have never met a single person with winter tires down here. You'd only use them for a few days/weeks at most.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Fanta

[D3UC3S]

Exactly. Glad to hear you made it home dude!

[Fuze]

My pops lives in ATL, he said it took 7 hours to get home from work that day. He's a snow warrior from up here in NJ, we know how to handle snow, said it was just that they didn't prepare, didn't close schools, businesses let out early and all created a worst case scenario for traffic on icy roads. We've gotten nonstop snow up here, in my city they don't even plow the streets. There's a reason notherners move south!

[D3UC3S]

Now there is some ridiculous conspiracy theory that it wasn't real snow....idiots

[jszucs]

and jzucs - you say stay at home - for a lot of people, that isn't really a reasonable option, unless you have certain jobs ( e.g. IT work remotely, or understanding managers... which is rare ) - and Tuesday morning, the skies were pretty much clear ( we were all aware it was moving in, but it started a lot sooner than what was anticipated ). Also, winter tires in Georgia? You're silly. Today ( Saturday ) its going to be 65*F. Georgia very rarely gets this kind of weather, hence why I have never met a single person with winter tires down here. You'd only use them for a few days/weeks at most.

 

I still stand my ground. You have access to wealther satalites, radar, highend forcast models ECT at your finger tips. Look for yourself. Plan accordingly. If you don't prepare, then don't go out. It's no diffrent or even worse around here where you can expect 12" snow in a regular snow fall and people will still go out unprepared. If I lived there I would not have snow tires ether, but I would also not go out on a day that was going to ice over, it's not like you didn't know / didn't have advanced warning.

[Burton]

 

 

I still stand my ground. You have access to wealther satalites, radar, highend forcast models ECT at your finger tips. Look for yourself. Plan accordingly. If you don't prepare, then don't go out. It's no diffrent or even worse around here where you can expect 12" snow in a regular snow fall and people will still go out unprepared. If I lived there I would not have snow tires ether, but I would also not go out on a day that was going to ice over, it's not like you didn't know / didn't have advanced warning.

 

 

So you'd just leave your kid abandoned at school or risk losing your job by not going? Good for you, but not everybody is willing to do that.

 

You are also making that decision based on years of winter driving up north. A lot of the people trying to do it in the south have zero experience, but think it can't be that hard because the Northerners do it all the time.

 

I thought like you when I lived up north. Now that I live down south too, I don't. You'd probably feel different about it if you lived both places.

[jszucs]

So you'd just leave your kid abandoned at school or risk losing your job by not going? Good for you, but not everybody is willing to do that.

 

You are also making that decision based on years of winter driving up north. A lot of the people trying to do it in the south have zero experience, but think it can't be that hard because the Northerners do it all the time.

 

I thought like you when I lived up north. Now that I live down south too, I don't. You'd probably feel different about it if you lived both places.

 

No that's my exact point..... my kid would not have gown to school if there was a change it would freez and everything would be screwed (and shame on your city for not making that call)

 

I would like to think I have made myself a valuable enough resource my boss would not fire me for being smart. As valuable to my current process as I am, they can live without me for a day or two while I wait safe at home for it to pass. Heck even dock me the pay if that's what you feel you got to do.

 

Ive lived in AZ at points in times, it's no diffrent then if you were going to drive out in the desert..... You would obviously set the vehicle up for the desert, make sure you have tires rated for the heat and surfaces, take food, lots of water........ It makes me think no diffrent about being prepared or NOT doing it. Makes no diffrence if it's back woods skiing (you get real rated gear, not only so your comfy but also so you can survive if worse comes to worse) or if you were going for a day at the beach. Always prepare for the worste and hope for the best...... no prepare = no going out and doing it........

Edited February 4, 2014 by jszucs

[Burton]

 

 

No that's my exact point..... my kid would not have gown to school if there was a change it would freez and everything would be screwed (and shame on your city for not making that call)

 

I would like to think I have made myself a valuable enough resource my boss would not fire me for being smart. As valuable to my current process as I am, they can live without me for a day or two while I wait safe at home for it to pass. Heck even dock me the pay if that's what you feel you got to do.

 

Ive lived in AZ at points in times, it's no diffrent then if you were going to drive out in the desert..... You would obviously set the vehicle up for the desert, make sure you have tires rated for the heat and surfaces, take food, lots of water........ It makes me think no diffrent about being prepared or NOT doing it. Makes no diffrence if it's back woods skiing (you get real rated gear, not only so your comfy but also so you can survive if worse comes to worse) or if you were going for a day at the beach. Always prepare for the worste and hope for the best...... no prepare = no going out and doing it........

 

Well, if everyone was as perfect as you, there wouldn't have been an issue. Unfortunately Most of the world isn't.

 

Were you born in AZ? If not, did you move there from a cold climate? If you did, I assume you had desert tires, food and water before you left or hit the desert, or did you just learn that you needed to have that stuff after getting there and realizing it for yourself or hearing from locals? People who live in the south, know to be prepared for getting stranded in the desert because of experience. People up north know to bring coats, gloves, a shovel and kitty litter when they travel in the winter because of experience. Even backwoods skiers are prepared because they learned from experience or did some research before they tried a new hobby. All of those are people who have the experience needed to know how to prepare. How can someone who never experiences something or researches it, know what to do when it happens? Unless you think that everyone should go on the internet and research everything they have no experience of? I ain't got that kind of time. I suspect people in ATL didn't have the time to research winter driving. They had kids to take to school and work to go to. Probably a lot of... "I have to go out and it's going to be slick. I'll just take my time and go slow. How bad can it be? people up North do it all the time".

 

You are right about one thing tho... it's all about being prepared. In this case, the DOT, schools, businesses and especially the drivers weren't prepared. It would be awesome if they were all perfectly prepared for anything, just like you, but like I said, most of the world isn't.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Burton

[jszucs]

You are right about one thing tho... it's all about being prepared. In this case, the DOT, schools, businesses and especially the drivers weren't prepared. It would be awesome if they were all perfectly prepared for anything, just like you, but like I said, most of the world isn't.

 

I was not born in the desert..... my brain does not allow me to do things without some type of prep even little stuff. It automaticly tells me if your going to use X outside of it's intened range X is not going to work like it's suposed to DON'T DO IT.

 

I am far from perfect..... now that is something that has to be learned. You don't have to get sucked under by an undertow in the ocean to know the ocean or any moving water is dangerous..... Yet look how many people are swepped away every year........ That is my problem with it. As you say nothing more then a fleeting moment of "O it will be icy.... I'll just go slow" Not O it's going to be icy, I'm not setup for ice don't do it. I guess if this had never happend before in GA or other places I would be OK with your statement. But it's happend there before, it's happend lots of other places before, and it's well documented and accessable for people to see. Or if this never happend again.... I would be cool with it. But I see it here every year first few snows even. That is where I truly find this unaccaptable.

 

I've always known I'm diffrent, just didn't think I was that polar of everyone else.

Edited February 4, 2014 by jszucs

[Fanta]

It's kind of a mentality I guess down here, since it ever so rarely snows, people still go to work and school. Even the day after it snowed, managers were driving out onto the roads to test out the road conditions to see if they could make it work, and if they could, guess what? Workers could too. Guess who still didn't go into work? Me Manager was a bit... annoyed, but oh well. I'm at a different job now, with better management, remote work ability, and salaried so no worrying about missing work from a snow day.

 

Still, I want to know why in the hell my neighbor has snowmobiles.