High Crankase Pressure

[chiplee]

Indy's input doesn't even remotely suggest that he thinks Mike or I am a liar. If the KV's aren't the right solution I'd rather move onto something that works better. I don't really have a strong opinion on them one way or the other because I never did much with them other than install them. I also don't have time to read everything being posted here right now, but I will this evening.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Indy's input doesn't even remotely suggest that he thinks Mike or I am a liar. If the KV's aren't the right solution I'd rather move onto something that works better. I don't really have a strong opinion on them one way or the other because I never did much with them other than install them. I also don't have time to read everything being posted here right now, but I will this evening.

Just curious, do you run the Krank vents with a catch can or oil seperator?

[Caliber308]

Indy's input doesn't even remotely suggest that he thinks Mike or I am a liar. If the KV's aren't the right solution I'd rather move onto something that works better. I don't really have a strong opinion on them one way or the other because I never did much with them other than install them. I also don't have time to read everything being posted here right now, but I will this evening.

 

Indy quoted:

 

"Mike K. (Boosted One) was wrong,his assumptions were wrong and what he saw wasn't true". Yet, Boosted One posted them on this site. So, if Mikes postings weren't true and what he saw wasn't true. Why do the KrankVents work, especially for members who lack Vacuum because of their High Lift Camshafts???? I think Indy thinks he lied, either that or he is trying to discredit him like he does with other members here. Otherwise, why even mention the word "lie", and why continue to tell members that they are wrong with the parts that they installed. I personally take offense to someone telling me that a part that I installed doesn't work. Even though I have had that part on my car for 5 years without any trouble. Indy needs to stick to advice he knows about and should stop criticizing members who have installed parts that work for them. I say that the K.V.s work for my set up, that should be the end of it. After all, it is not his car. He doesn't do the maintenance on it nor does he drive it. So who knows more about my car.....Indy or myself I never told one member here to install the KrankVents. What I did suggest to members is this. If they lacked Vacuum the K.V. System solved my lack of Vacuum on a High Lift Camshaft. They can decide for themselves. All I can do is advise them from my own experiences and research.

 

Bill

Edited August 17, 2011 by Caliber308

[chiplee]

 

 

Indy quoted:

 

"Mike K. (Boosted One) was wrong,his assumptions were wrong and what he saw wasn't true". Yet, Boosted One posted them on this site. So, if Mikes postings weren't true and what he saw wasn't true. Why do the KrankVents work, especially for members who lack Vacuum because of their High Lift Camshafts???? I think Indy thinks he lied, either that or he is trying to discredit him like he does with other members here. Otherwise, why even mention the word "lie", and why continue to tell members that they are wrong with the parts that they installed. I personally take offense to someone telling me that a part that I installed doesn't work. Even though I have had that part on my car for 5 years without any trouble. Indy needs to stick to advice he knows about and should stop criticizing members who have installed parts that work for them. I say that the K.V.s work for my set up, that should be the end of it. After all, it is not his car. He doesn't do the maintenance on it nor does he drive it. So who knows more about my car.....Indy or myself I never told one member here to install the KrankVents. What I did suggest to members is this. If they lacked Vacuum the K.V. System solved my lack of Vacuum on a High Lift Camshaft. They can decide for themselves. All I can do is advise them from my own experiences and research.

 

Bill

 

Exactly. He said mike was wrong. He didn't say he lied. Big difference.

[Caliber308]

Exactly. He said mike was wrong. He didn't say he lied. Big difference.

 

Maybe I was incorrect in saying that. I saw this: "Mike said this, and it should be deleted because it is a big lie". I really don't agree with Indys opinion about KrankVents. But, that is just the way I see it. Until he lives in my shoes (or owns my car) he cannot comment about how it performs.

 

Have a nice evening,

Bill

[Caliber308]

Just curious, do you run the Krank vents with a catch can or oil seperator?

 

I don't know how Chip has his set up. On mine I have a hose off the rear valve cover fitting to the large KrankVent then a Small air filter breather at the end.

 

Bill

Edited August 18, 2011 by Caliber308

[Mix_67]

Back to the issue that the thread was intended for........

 

Tonight I increased the size of the intake pipe port from 1/8NPT to 3/8NPT. Upgraded the oil sep to pan line to 3/8" and upgraded the oil sep to intake pipe to 7/16". Currently running 1/2 in hose to the rear VC port. This made the dipstick only slightly move out of its holder on 1 out of 3 pulls. So I upped the boost from 8 to 12 and it stopped coming out at all. I turned the boost up all the way to 15psi and I didn't have the dipstick come out more than an 1/8". I ended up putting a spring on the dipstick just in case but otherwise I think I am good to run.

 

Thanks to Indy and Shelby for the help they gave me and everyone else on this thread as well.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Back to the issue that the thread was intended for........

 

Tonight I increased the size of the intake pipe port from 1/8NPT to 3/8NPT. Upgraded the oil sep to pan line to 3/8" and upgraded the oil sep to intake pipe to 7/16". Currently running 1/2 in hose to the rear VC port. This made the dipstick only slightly move out of its holder on 1 out of 3 pulls. So I upped the boost from 8 to 12 and it stopped coming out at all. I turned the boost up all the way to 15psi and I didn't have the dipstick come out more than an 1/8". I ended up putting a spring on the dipstick just in case but otherwise I think I am good to run.

 

Thanks to Indy and Shelby for the help they gave me and everyone else on this thread as well.

does the dip stick fit loose in the tube? it isn't suppose to move, period. I've ran more boost on My SQs with bigger turbos than what your're running and never had an issue with the dip stick poping, not even a 1/8 of an inch. I still think something is wrong.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

 

I don't know how Chip has his set up. On mine I have a hose off the rear valve cover fitting to the large KrankVent then a Small air filter breather at the end.

 

Bill

I've noticed that most guys with Krank Vent systems on SQC run theirs the same way as yours.

When boost comes on, the KV on the intake side closes, then its all up to the one on the Rear valve cover to vent. The probelm I see with method is that the KV cannot vent efficently by puffing out through that little breather filter; it needs some sort of device to speed up the rate at which it vents. My way of running the KV system is to plumb it back with a catch can/seperator to the inlet of the turbo. I use an aftermarket catch can with bigger ports. The suction(vacuum) from the intlet of the turbo is very much needed to aid crankcase ventilation during boost just the same as vacuum from the intake manifold is utilized during cruise and idle.

I'm not saying that the Mini filter is the worng way to go but under boost there is so much pressure in the crankcase; its more efficent to use the suction of the turbo to maximize venting.

[Mix_67]

does the dip stick fit loose in the tube? it isn't suppose to move, period. I've ran more boost on My SQs with bigger turbos than what your're running and never had an issue with the dip stick poping, not even a 1/8 of an inch. I still think something is wrong.

 

It does not fit very tightly. There is very little resistance to pull it out. Are they still available new?

[Indiana]

Don't be confused by Caliber and this drama. He did all this on purpose because that meet is coming up. He could fix this before that because someone might just bring an oil cap with a gauge stuck to it then what would he do?

 

I have Mikes phone # on one of my old cell phones you want me to pm it to you so you can get all this from the horses mouth? Ask him if I ever called him a liar. He was a moderator remember, not just a "member" but that QUACK called me a liar three different times what about that?

 

Go buy some 7031 spark plugs and see how much better your engine runs.

[Indiana]

It does not fit very tightly. There is very little resistance to pull it out. Are they still available new?

There's some oil additives like Lucas that are treatments for oil seals that will soften them back up. Some say tranny fluid will do it too. I just find one that still fits I never tried it.

[Indiana]

If you run double check valves you don't get the reverse ventilation flow even with a separator. The flow is out of the valve cover under boost but most other times its reversed but it can't with a check valve there. You still will have a vacuum in the crankcase all the times if you size it right and find the spot in the inlet tube that works for your setup but if you leave one hose hanging, you will only ever have a vacuum when the throttle is closed and there's given time enough to draw it down.

[Lizzord30]

If you run double check valves you don't get the reverse ventilation flow even with a separator. The flow is out of the valve cover under boost but most other times its reversed but it can't with a check valve there. You still will have a vacuum in the crankcase all the times if you size it right and find the spot in the inlet tube that works for your setup but if you leave one hose hanging, you will only ever have a vacuum when the throttle is closed and there's given time enough to draw it down.

 

So are you suggesting to add a one way valve somewhere into the stock separator system?

[TainterRacing]

When we ran are high lift cam we used the stock setup and it seem to work fine for us. Sure we did not get a great vac about 12-10 the stock seemed to work just fine.

[Shelby]

i don't know why this never goes away ,, some one please explain to me the diff in a krank vent system and the stock crank case vent system , both use a pcv valve , KV just calls their s one way valve but thats exactly what a turbo pcv valve is a ONE WAY VALVE ,,as for placeing a one way valve on the rear of the valve cover to prevent air from entering the engine ,that is not need'd

only way you'd need a one way valve in the engine is if you have a much larger one way valve in place of the oem pcv valve and thats exactly what you have with a KV system,, once you place the hose restrictor in the hose to slow down vacuum draw you are back to the oem pcv setup , and useing a restrictor is an absolute must ,,if you do not you have excessive air flow into the intake that has NO FUEL IN IT

 

as for the valve cover rear vent port it should always be open and free flowing ,idealy to stop oil mist from geting all over the engine it should be route'd back into the air inlet , now we have 100's of diff engines with diff amounts of blow by out there,,

my engines have never had any oil being blown out the rear valve cover port,, my g-sons engine did

why the diff not sure but it may lay in the baffleing in the two valve covers them selves some are more free flowing then others

and also some engine s are seal'd better at the rings then others

but nothing changes the fact that nothing is need'd to plug the rear valve cover .

 

all turbo engines have huge amounts of blow by and this was address'd by the factory vent system they did a fine job of controling the blow by , but it must be there and in working order for it to work

 

factory install'd vacuum pumps how many of you realy know why they were install'd , few i bet,, it came about with diesel engines,, why cause they have no intake suction like a gas engine and most have huge air plentums once the car makers start'd useing huge intake plentums they found that the large area slow'd down the air speed so bad that the vacuum signal dam near went away,, so they had to resort to a mechanical vacuum pump to operate things like a/c controls and power brakes,, some even start'd useing hyd system for this and electric pumps for cruise control sence they were more acurate and steady

 

huge cams lower the intake vacuum but this is not a problem with fuel inj,, it may how ever cause some problems with power brake boosters and some times even require an engine decelleration in order to achive full vacuum signal at the booster

[Caliber308]

When we ran are high lift cam we used the stock setup and it seem to work fine for us. Sure we did not get a great vac about 12-10 the stock seemed to work just fine.

 

And I run 16 with the KrankVent set up.

 

Bill

[Caliber308]

Back to the issue that the thread was intended for........

 

Tonight I increased the size of the intake pipe port from 1/8NPT to 3/8NPT. Upgraded the oil sep to pan line to 3/8" and upgraded the oil sep to intake pipe to 7/16". Currently running 1/2 in hose to the rear VC port. This made the dipstick only slightly move out of its holder on 1 out of 3 pulls. So I upped the boost from 8 to 12 and it stopped coming out at all. I turned the boost up all the way to 15psi and I didn't have the dipstick come out more than an 1/8". I ended up putting a spring on the dipstick just in case but otherwise I think I am good to run.

 

Thanks to Indy and Shelby for the help they gave me and everyone else on this thread as well.

 

With the K.V. set up, my dipstick doesn't come out

 

Bill

[Caliber308]

Don't be confused by Caliber and this drama. He did all this on purpose because that meet is coming up.

 

What does that have to do with anything? Maybe YOU should attend Mesquite, That way you can tell all the members everything that is wrong with their set ups. "Even though they drove their cars to Mesquite.... and made it" Indy, your grasping at straws

 

Bill

Edited August 20, 2011 by Caliber308

[Lizzord30]

Wow..... guys relax some setups work better for some cars others dont other can work but doesnt mean its better. For the most part Vac idol doesnt really make much different as long as you have enof for the brake booster to work properly. For Crank ventilation stock is not bad, but isnt perfect, but I think krank vent is a very little upgrade and is more a thing for some cars only. If it was to ventilate the engine block area more it may help but dont think much help with larger system from the valve cover.

 

Try not to get defensive or offensive when someone says your setup is not the best one (because almost for sure yours isnt the best one but doesnt mean his suggestion is the best or even better for your setup). No mater what you do good or bad someone will not like it learn this young and dont feel you have to defend everything you do or try to make other members look bad in anyway. To me this Community's strongest point is how people want to help others. I will say its pretty often their is bad or advice based on something wrong, deal with it. Dont complain or make someone look bad because of this. Everyone learns and sometimes your conclusion is wrong even if doing this or that solved a problem its possible it effected it in different way then you thought. Dont worry everyone does this sometimes.

 

To be clear I am not aiming this at one person just getting little sick of people taking some things personal when should be an opportunity to learn.

[lionbull]

^^^he is right^^^^

 

Now please comment here.

 

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=123301

 

Thanks

[mstieg]

atta boy Luke! Well said!

 

I might be able to contribute a bit to this, having had blowby problems with my current engine. I went with KVs and it did help, however the restrictor was needed as stated. In fact I put a little manual valve on there to control how much vac. was being made at idle, and the resulting oil loss stopped when opened up just enough to allow the quoted "5-7psi crankcase vac".

 

BUT - this was using the mentioned vacc. gun via the dipstick! I think THIS issue alone needs to be answered and I'm really surprised that it hasn't been already! Indy's point on the dipstick and oil level seems to hold water (oil actually), and I'm very curious on the answer.

 

Since going KV I have also wondered about the effect of this godsend called crankcase vacc and how the heck it can possibly sustain and exist when needed most....under boost....when the only source of vacc is from the intake, which is closed off under boost (same with the OEM PCV), as Shelby pointed out. (that's a rhetorical question. It can't). So how did it work for me, at least initially? Perhaps my stock separator was failing and the newer engine pushed it over the edge, who knows, its gone now. I'll gladly put on a known working separator and JB Weld onto my inlet, but want to see the before/after effects That said...

 

...Could it make sense to run a combo of a KV with a separator on the rear KV going to the turbo intake?? Essentially this would be a slightly beefier OEM setup right?? I've been looking to do this, but first want to hook up a boost/vacc gauge between the former PCV and the intake's KV to see what is REALLY going on. I also likely have bad valve stem seal, so this may help diagnose the effects of that, but I won't complicate this further with my own:

 

http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/pictures/ThreadHijack/thread_direction.thumb.gif

 

I'll gladly start a new thread for my 2 questions if needed, but am hoping to get some good responses from both ends of this ongoing debate...

[Caliber308]

atta boy Luke! Well said! I might be able to contribute a bit to this, having had blowby problems with my current engine. I went with KVs and it did help, however the restrictor was needed as stated. In fact I put a little manual valve on there to control how much vac. was being made at idle, and the resulting oil loss stopped when opened up just enough to allow the quoted "5-7psi crankcase vac". BUT - this was using the mentioned vacc. gun via the dipstick! I think THIS issue alone needs to be answered and I'm really surprised that it hasn't been already! Indy's point on the dipstick and oil level seems to hold water (oil actually), and I'm very curious on the answer. Since going KV I have also wondered about the effect of this godsend called crankcase vacc and how the heck it can possibly sustain and exist when needed most....under boost....when the only source of vacc is from the intake, which is closed off under boost (same with the OEM PCV), as Shelby pointed out. (that's a rhetorical question. It can't). So how did it work for me, at least initially? Perhaps my stock separator was failing and the newer engine pushed it over the edge, who knows, its gone now. I'll gladly put on a known working separator and JB Weld onto my inlet, but want to see the before/after effects That said... ...Could it make sense to run a combo of a KV with a separator on the rear KV going to the turbo intake?? Essentially this would be a slightly beefier OEM setup right?? I've been looking to do this, but first want to hook up a boost/vacc gauge between the former PCV and the intake's KV to see what is REALLY going on. I also likely have bad valve stem seal, so this may help diagnose the effects of that, but I won't complicate this further with my own: http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/pictures/ThreadHijack/thread_direction.thumb.gif I'll gladly start a new thread for my 2 questions if needed, but am hoping to get some good responses from both ends of this ongoing debate...

 

I didn't respond to the original post to start a argument. I posted to tell members what worked for my set up via the lack of vacuum. Now, there are some members who know more than I do. But, they don't know my car. I know what has worked, and is still working for me. I think that about sums it up. What works for me and my set up doesn't always work for others. I installed the K.V.s because of low vacuum with a High Lift Roller camshaft. Well, My Engine Vacuum is at 16 in. so it worked in my situation. Another experienced member said (in this thread) with a High lift camshaft he only produced 10 to 12 inches of vacuum with the Stock Oil Separator. That is all I was trying to convey to the membership in responding to this post. Others can say what they please about my comments. I know I made the correct decision in 2005 and will continue to convey that information to members who seek it.Irregardless of what others say. I have heard this claim over and over and over again about Krank Vents from certain members: "Your going to spray oil all over your engine from the rear valve cover port". I have saw none of that. Another one is this: "Your going to suck your engine seals into the motor" I also have not experienced this. I believe others who run this system also have not experienced such things or we surely would have heard from them about it by now.

 

Bill

Edited August 20, 2011 by Caliber308

[jason c]

i have a question with my setup up , i went with a after market catch can and im running line from the rear vent tube on the valve cover to the catch can then a line from the catch can to the air intake hose going to turbo so do i need to cap off the tube going into the oil pan or leave it open , i have been fighting issues with oil pushing out the rear valve cover ect, and i have not had the chance to run the car much since i put the new catch can on, to see if it has improved or not, im just needing to know proper installatin for this setup to work because last time i looked i think there was 2 tubes comeing off the oil pan that where open i know one was for the drain back from the factory seperator

[Technology]

There's only one on the passenger side of the car, it's the drain back for the seperator. The dipstick tube is on the driver side, but that's it for the oil pan, unless it's been modified.

 

I wouldn't cap that hose going to the pan, rather put a small filter on it if you have eliminated the stock catch can/seperator, this way there's another place for the pressure to go out, even if it's just a little bit.