lionbull Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 what plugs you got and gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 thats just awsome!! Wish I were there! Im working on a little something for you guys! You should see it soon..... PHINKO YOU TEASE! man you got some serious torque.....goodness wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 what plugs you got and gap? Just running NGK bpr7-es gapped at 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 cool, thanks. I will be hitting the dyno soon. Hoping to make 390+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHO Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I activate the n20 with a wide open throttle switch, so in the VE table in that range, it is just dumping a ton more fuel - i.e. on the motor/street tune, a box in the VE table would be 94 while on the n20 tune, it may be 107. And yes, I started VERY small and worked my way up from there. When I first started, it was a 30 shot and was hardly even noticeable. Then 50, 60, 85, and then 100. I did hit it with what I thought was a 125 but ended up being closer to a 150 - massive jump in power but it started to over boost and bucked like crazy, probably was about to nuke, so I pulled that jet out and backed it down to a 100 and worked from there. That 150 shot showed 460+ hp and 600+tq on the dyno, but it was a horrible graph full of spikes, so I just can't claim bs numbers like that. lol But yes, I have two totally different tunes for fuel and also for timing, one for boost only, and one for nitrous. The timing at WOT and full boost on motor only is 20 degrees, and with nitrous I have it at 18 degrees. With naturally aspirated cars, they say to pull out a degree for every 100hp, but with a turbo car, I figure 2 degrees is just a bit safer. There is zero pinging, no signs of detonation at all - plugs look perfect too, so I think I found the right combo. I know I could squeeze some more power out by becoming more aggressive on the timing, but it's just not worth the risk at this point. I think I have a good solid combo and don't want to jack with it now. :thumbsup: Wow...and all that on 8x8 bins? that is just awesome...Do you have someone that knows megasquirt or you just trial and error yourself on the dyno? great #'s again Turbo...Can't wait to finish my setup...i don't want to spray it for a while but hoping to be around the same with an all boost setup...shooting for 315 at 24 psi...on a s16g...maybe just out of my reach....not sure yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Wow...and all that on 8x8 bins? that is just awesome...Do you have someone that knows megasquirt or you just trial and error yourself on the dyno? great #'s again Turbo...Can't wait to finish my setup...i don't want to spray it for a while but hoping to be around the same with an all boost setup...shooting for 315 at 24 psi...on a s16g...maybe just out of my reach....not sure yet. I tuned my car myself - just read the megatune manual, a lot of trial and error, and testing. Most of the base tuning was done on the ol' back roads and data logging. Also some at the track and datalogged there making adjustments and trying again. By far, the most effective is on the dyno in the controlled environment though. 2 hrs unrushed on a dyno is priceless. I worked on Gofastredstar's tune that day too - he started off at 240hp / 320 tq or something along those lines. An hour later, he was pushing 306hp / 413 tq. Not too shabby for just dialing in the fuel and timing. It really is amazing how much can be unlocked with a good tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 That's some huge torque. lol. What turbo does gofastredstar have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 I tuned my car myself - just read the megatune manual, a lot of trial and error, and testing. Most of the base tuning was done on the ol' back roads and data logging. Also some at the track and datalogged there making adjustments and trying again. By far, the most effective is on the dyno in the controlled environment though. 2 hrs unrushed on a dyno is priceless. I worked on Gofastredstar's tune that day too - he started off at 240hp / 320 tq or something along those lines. An hour later, he was pushing 306hp / 413 tq. Not too shabby for just dialing in the fuel and timing. It really is amazing how much can be unlocked with a good tune. what piping do you have BTW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 That's some huge torque. lol. What turbo does gofastredstar have? It's just a t3/t4 little AR50 with AR63 exhaust side... his 60-1 died, and I had this cheapie ebay turbo on the bench and we threw it on for the time being. I think he got it up to about 23 lbs of boost or so. For a $150 turbo, not too bad. Oh, for piping, I am only using 2.25" end to end, with a cheapie ebay intercooler with 2.25" inlet/outlet. My Air intake temps at 5k rpms which is my shift point is about 125 deg on motor, and when spraying, they are about 105 - ambient air was about 80+ with high humidity. If I stay in it from 5k through 6k rpm's, the air intake temps rise dramatically, so my guess is I am already beyond that s16g evo turbo's efficiency range, and it's just a heat gun at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Is that while driving? Did you have a carpet drying fan on the intercooler when dynoing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Wow...and all that on 8x8 bins? that is just awesome...Do you have someone that knows megasquirt or you just trial and error yourself on the dyno? great #'s again Turbo...Can't wait to finish my setup...i don't want to spray it for a while but hoping to be around the same with an all boost setup...shooting for 315 at 24 psi...on a s16g...maybe just out of my reach....not sure yet. BOHO, what is that cylinder looking thing over the oil cooler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHO Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 BOHO, what is that cylinder looking thing over the oil cooler? lol...that is just a "extra" piece of my IC pipe setup...I'm not done with the car yet. Are you going to post your tune up Turbo? Is there any cfm difference in the Evo 3 s16g and a "regular" one? I was looking for your other thread but couldn't find it....Since I've got a DD now I plan on doing basically the same thing....Hope you don't mind me stealin yo s*** manz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yeah - there were the big fans blowing while on the dyno, so definitely good air flow. I'll grab a screen shot of my VE table and post it up. No idea if the evo flows any different than the other or not, as a matter of fact, I don't even know what this one flows. And BOHO, go for it! Nothing I do is thought of as 'proprietary', that's just not me. I'll share whatever I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 T4 compressor @23psi making same 300hp as 16g @21... interesting. Bottleneck ? good detail write up. Car should rip what is traction like on the street.... on what tires ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Wow, Must say for a 16g those are great numbers. I'm surprised to see your clutch holding up. I think your clutch will start to slip before the trans will grenade unless you have already had trans problems in the past. Good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) I'm truly surprised this spec stage 3 is holding too... according to their site, it is supposed to be good for about 430 ft/lb torque, and with 527 at the wheels, must be around 560 at the flywheel maybe? I can't imagine it has all that much life left in it. The car has the 89 trans in it and so far is holding together, but I am not being super tough on it right now. I have a feeling a few hard launches and pieces will be flying. I've got that R-154 in the garage waiting on the bell housing from Bill - so that is the next project on deck. For that T4 making same #'s, I have no idea why. Many differences in the cars. Different cams, different exhaust sizes, different IC, different intercooler piping, etc and so on. His torque numbers are much higher than mine on just motor, but the HP is about the same. Very strange. Plus I am runing 8:1 wisecos and he has 7:1 so that may have a lot to do with it too. Just too many differences. Traction is becoming an issue... I put the street tires on for the dyno day but most of the time I run around on BFG drag radials, 255/50's and those are great on the street and strip. Edited May 6, 2009 by Turbo_Addict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Here are screenshots of my tune: Constants, Enrichments, and VE table http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10171/constants~0.JPG http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10171/enrichments~0.JPG http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10171/vetable.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I still have yet to understand the VE table and what it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Very nice work. You can change those rpm bins to better reflect the operating range and get a bit more resolution where you want it. For example, I doubt you idle at 500 rpm and I'm willing to guess that you don't rev it to 7100 so those numbers could change to 800 and maybe 6000. Then you can change the rest a bit to put more detail into the areas where the car spends a lot of time operating or where you want more tuning. You can squeeze the pressure bins in the same way, 21 KPa is fairly low vacuum and if you look at your data logs at idle maybe you'll find its higher than that so you could set the lowest pressure bin at the idle vacuum or slightly below. The motor operates mostly from lower left to upper right in the table but I'd take the time to smooth out the upper left and lower right so the table looks smoother to the eye. Take the 250 KPa bin across from left to right, it's really quite high and then drops to 99 at 2700 rpm, then back up to higher VE. In reality you never get to the 250 KPa 2100 rpm bin at 115 VE so it doesn't affect the tune but I'd drop it to 99 or 95 and smooth it back to the minimum rpm bin. It just makes it easier to look at someone's code, kind of like comments for software programmers. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Very nice work. You can change those rpm bins to better reflect the operating range and get a bit more resolution where you want it. For example, I doubt you idle at 500 rpm and I'm willing to guess that you don't rev it to 7100 so those numbers could change to 800 and maybe 6000. Then you can change the rest a bit to put more detail into the areas where the car spends a lot of time operating or where you want more tuning. You can squeeze the pressure bins in the same way, 21 KPa is fairly low vacuum and if you look at your data logs at idle maybe you'll find its higher than that so you could set the lowest pressure bin at the idle vacuum or slightly below. The motor operates mostly from lower left to upper right in the table but I'd take the time to smooth out the upper left and lower right so the table looks smoother to the eye. Take the 250 KPa bin across from left to right, it's really quite high and then drops to 99 at 2700 rpm, then back up to higher VE. In reality you never get to the 250 KPa 2100 rpm bin at 115 VE so it doesn't affect the tune but I'd drop it to 99 or 95 and smooth it back to the minimum rpm bin. It just makes it easier to look at someone's code, kind of like comments for software programmers. Scott Yeah, I found out after the fact that I could mod the bin value, but its dialed in so nice, and the datalog looks perfect, so screw it - I'm gonna leave well enough alone. I'll go in and smooth everything in the 'untouched' ranges eventually... this is just how it looked fresh off the dyno and I haven't touched it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I still have yet to understand the VE table and what it does Think of it as a fuel map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Awesome. Is there an ignition map to look at as well?? -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Is there an ignition map to look at as well?? Good question, I'm curious how much timing you're pulling out at 21 psi with and without nitrous. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Addict Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Pretty conservative under boost alone - 20 degrees of timing. 19 degrees with nitrous. I could probably unleash more power under boost only by running 22 degrees, but I was happy with the numbers and figured I'd just leave it there. Absolutely zero signs of detonation, no pinging, plugs looking good, etc. I may play with the boost tune a little more to get a bit more performance, but so far, so good. Boost only - 20 deg http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10171/boost.JPG Nitrous - 19 deg (18 over 5500 rpm's) and it starts to pull more timing sooner since the n2o is on a wide open throttle switch and usually hits around 3k rpms http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10171/nitrous.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Many thanks for sharing, I've read a lot of theory and done some timing but I still think I have much to learn. Given the size of the nitrous shot I'm surprised you only have to pull out two additional degrees. Since you have no detonation, does that mean the turbo timing is too conservative? Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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