BrazilBoy Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Ok Tim_C likes Chads headers better.....good for Tim....I can't afford Chads headers...I know Jeff is a good guy who won't sell something he can not trust himself 100%...and it will be cheaper than Chads...so I will get one of Jeffs headers.. STOP ATTACKING JEFF!!!! OUNCE THE GP IS ACTUALLY ON AND JEFF HAS ACCEPTED MONEY FOR PRODUCT IF HE CHANGES HIS WORD OR OTHERWISE!!! THEN FEEL FREE TO POST YOUR ISSUES.....UNTIL THEN CHILL PEOPLE!!!!!! Making a custom header is difficult work as Shelby stated earlier....So let Jeff do what he needs to get this done!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 This is why potential vendors leave. Anyone working on something beneficial would probably keep it to themselves then when we see the cars in a magazine or on TV we wonder 'why they are not on 'our' forum'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDX87Starion Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I think Jeff is doing this the right way. Nothing has really been promised yet, but our expectations are high. I'm just skeptical about what someone (sales guy) at this major header company has told him. I just dont see how they can tool up to make a limited number of these and have a lifetime warranty, made in America, and be affordable. I'm just afraid that after all thats been said and done, some bean counter at this company will say "no way" unless its a very large order for $500 each, prepaid in full. Or something to that effect. Like i said before...hope it works out. And I'm eager to see dyno results regardless if they are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWDAddict Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 (edited) Hell even the stock manifolds crack, it happens. As for the header company I'm sure once they have a good solid rough draft (which entails a large portion of the work) I'm sure they'll tweak it in potential weak spots and use high degree build materials if they are going to stamp a lifetime warranty on it. What idiot company would take a header in, produce it, and put a warranty on it not knowing if it will hold up after a couple 100 miles? I'm sure if he can get a reputable header company sponsor and produce the header it will be pretty damn good. Maybe not the best but probably the best this community will see made in any resemblance of a bulk production run. Edited April 29, 2009 by RWDAddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 the reality of all this is NO ONE is going to offer a "life time warranty" on any header so get that out of your head it ain't gona happen :biggrinumbrella1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Wait a minute, so the header was put on for dyno purposes and immediately taken back off and the stock mani. was put back on? How do you know then if it will hold up to heat cycles and daily driving and track use for any length of time? Will this long - term type testing be done by the as-yet unnamed company, or by anyone for that matter? I'm not saying anything about the argument going on, just trying to get the facts, because I'd like to get an affordable header again. I DID notice a slightly faster and harder spool up with my Mookeeh header when I had it on, before I sent it back due to sealing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I really dont think tristar is new to the quest game, just a new SN for someone. Yeah, I was wondering that too, but who needs to hide their identity around here? Someone who got banned under a different name? What if it's *DM!!1!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahjah Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 omg. this is rediculus just no one post till he has a price, a company name, and pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitboss Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Well, don't you think it would be better to take one of the ones off the assembly line and test it? or should he test a weak prototype that was made just to test fitment? I think everyone should stop getting their panties all up in a bunch till money has actually changed hands. Huh? That makes no sense. Testing the product AFTER it's gone into production? Pototype made JUST for fitment? Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd_stazza_brendan Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 No wonder no one wants to make parts for our cars.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5150NV Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I can't stop watching RWDAddict's dancing ninja! DANCE NINJA DANCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I really dont think tristar is new to the quest game, just a new SN for someone. Ok Tim_C likes Chads headers better.....good for Tim....I can't afford Chads headers...I know Jeff is a good guy who won't sell something he can not trust himself 100%...and it will be cheaper than Chads...so I will get one of Jeffs headers.. STOP ATTACKING JEFF!!!! OUNCE THE GP IS ACTUALLY ON AND JEFF HAS ACCEPTED MONEY FOR PRODUCT IF HE CHANGES HIS WORD OR OTHERWISE!!! THEN FEEL FREE TO POST YOUR ISSUES.....UNTIL THEN CHILL PEOPLE!!!!!! Making a custom header is difficult work as Shelby stated earlier....So let Jeff do what he needs to get this done!!!! Like Phil said, this is a member that was banned for various reasons, including ripping people off. Make your own judgement if you want to throw money his way. I would encourage everyone who has been banned and has bad feedback to re-register under another name and see if they can rip off a different group of people who don't remember them. All it takes is the ability to change names and IP addresses. We have banned the same few multiple times. In the future we'll just expose them so everyone can be informed and then ban them again, and again, and again. For everyone who got caught with the PM concerning the "change to site rule", you can thank people like this for it. Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3wrf381 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Like Phil said, this is a member that was banned for various reasons, including ripping people off. Make your own judgement if you want to throw money his way. I would encourage everyone who has been banned and has bad feedback to re-register under another name and see if they can rip off a different group of people who don't remember them. All it takes is the ability to change names and IP addresses. We have banned the same few multiple times. In the future we'll just expose them so everyone can be informed and then ban them again, and again, and again. For everyone who got caught with the PM concerning the "change to site rule", you can thank people like this for it. Jimmy so wait, who ripped who off? I'm lost here. Edited April 30, 2009 by 3wrf381 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 This is so awesome can't wait for pics!!!! I think my 19c will love this mod.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Something like this shouldn't be too hard. http://i18.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/8f/a8/71_1_b.JPG This is a Pacesetter DSM manifold/header. FWIW I have had Pacesetters on N/A cars before (RX7). Wanst a 'bad' header per-se, just an under performing compared to the others that were available. They were cheap tho. Im not sure the 'mild' steel used in pacesetters would hold up in turbo applications. Unfortunatly a header like that will not fit. I tried. Most of the eclipses I've seen that use the header you posted invert the turbo so the header in the pic is actually upside down. Lots of room for that. When I tried to do that for the starion I ran into the motor mount and the oil filter. There's just no room for that without raising the turbo flange 3-4 inches and that would put the turbo into the hood. I'm loading pics on my computer, will post them very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack_Morris Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Jeff, I would just like to say that your hard work does not go unappreciated. There are enough people on this thread giving you props. I respect what you are trying to do and can't wait to see the finished product along with your dyno sheets. You have obviously put a lot of YOUR free time and money, no to mention loss of your car for certain amounts of time while doing this. Every one who has posted in this thread bashing you, pointing out what they see as "flaws" or "lies" has obviously not noticed that EVERY TIME something changes you post updates. If this was a GP things might be different, but it's not. People constantly complain (including myself when i had one) about the lack of performance parts available. And yet, when someone even TRIES something new, they get bashed by so many people they give up and get flamed for it. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T RISK NEW THINGS 90% OF THE TIME. Yes, I know the SQ community is not the largest, nor does it carry endless purchasing power. But at the same time, we want more. To the bashers: If Jeff has put in the time, legwork, phone calls, etc to get this set up, then leave him be. He has taken NO money. He has not offered a SINGLE product for sale. Get off your high horse. Aftermarket headers for just about ANY car require some sort of modification, be it removal of the EGR, new piping to be made, O2 sensors relocated, etc etc etc. Very few are direct replacement, no modifications whatsoever. From my experiences, its the headers that require modifications to the rest of the exhaust that provide the greatest power gain potential. Leave him be. Let him get the dyno sheets and pics posted. Let him get the header company to give a set price and minimum purchase number. If you don't like what he's doing, stay out of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Jeff, I would just like to say that your hard work does not go unappreciated. There are enough people on this thread giving you props. I respect what you are trying to do and can't wait to see the finished product along with your dyno sheets. You have obviously put a lot of YOUR free time and money, no to mention loss of your car for certain amounts of time while doing this. Every one who has posted in this thread bashing you, pointing out what they see as "flaws" or "lies" has obviously not noticed that EVERY TIME something changes you post updates. If this was a GP things might be different, but it's not. People constantly complain (including myself when i had one) about the lack of performance parts available. And yet, when someone even TRIES something new, they get bashed by so many people they give up and get flamed for it. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T RISK NEW THINGS 90% OF THE TIME. Yes, I know the SQ community is not the largest, nor does it carry endless purchasing power. But at the same time, we want more. To the bashers: If Jeff has put in the time, legwork, phone calls, etc to get this set up, then leave him be. He has taken NO money. He has not offered a SINGLE product for sale. Get off your high horse. Aftermarket headers for just about ANY car require some sort of modification, be it removal of the EGR, new piping to be made, O2 sensors relocated, etc etc etc. Very few are direct replacement, no modifications whatsoever. From my experiences, its the headers that require modifications to the rest of the exhaust that provide the greatest power gain potential. Leave him be. Let him get the dyno sheets and pics posted. Let him get the header company to give a set price and minimum purchase number. If you don't like what he's doing, stay out of the thread. Thanks for the support. Honestly sometimes it feels like an uphill battle with no one backing me up. I now know exactly why alot of people are afraid to market new products. Sometimes one bad post is worth 100 good posts. And if I don't respond to the bad ones people will assume it is true. So I have to battle doubters that haven't seen the finished product. It's very frustrating. Everyones support is greatly appreciated. Headers are not easy to make but it's something I wanted to do for these cars for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 OK here it is. The fruits of my labor. Please excuse the imperfect welding. This is just a mock up for the header company, it doesn't have to be perfect. The finished product will have tig welded tubes and more meat on the flanges. The flanges are still gonna be 3/8 thick but will be wider in the thin areas to prevent warping. The tubes will be 14ga and ceramic coated inside and out. The flange supports will be thicker on the finished product. The thin metal I used was all I had in my garage. The exhaust shop did 95% of the work and I did the touch up work myself. The turbo flange is as close to stock location as I could get it. The flange is about 3/4" up, 1" to the rear, and 3/4" to the passenger side. All stock starion parts still fit on the turbo except the downpipe will need to be slightly modified for better fitment. You may need to slightly modify the heat shield as well. The header produces 4-8 more HP than the stock manifold depending on the RPM and 10 more FT LBS of torque at 3000 RPM. The boost comes on a little sooner as well. A built motor with a bigger turbo will see more gains. Keep in mind this was a stock motor with an unmodified 12a. I did do a 14PSI run but the AFR made the high boost run erratic. The other runs were done on a stock single port WG actuator with NO MBC or EBC. Peak HP with header and 14PSI boost was 186.3 to the wheels on a mostly stock car with a bad AFR. Also the dyno tech stated my fuel pump may be dying because I had a fuel delivery problem. My AFR climbed to 14+ at higher RPM. Other stock starions he has dynoed had a level fuel curve. So there are a few hiccups in the dyno run. The car runs perfect on the street but the extra load on the dyno shows I may need to replace my fuel pump or injectors. I origionally wanted to have the prototype on my car being tested while the finished product was being manufactured but I forgot that they need the prototype to copy so it will be in their hands during production. http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/ondynoviperinbackground.jpg Here is stock boost HP and torque #s Green lines are torque Blue lines are HP Solid lines are stock manifold Dotted lines are the Header http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/hp_and_tq_plots_stock_boost_only.jpg Here's my AFR. You can see on high boost I'm reaching motor popping territory. Also the tech said it missfired a bit probably due to the bad AFR. http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/AFR.jpg High and low boost on stock manifold and header. HP + torque Solid green line, stock manifold stock boost Dotted blue line, Header at stock boost Solid blue line, Stock manifold at 14PSI boost Dotted light blue/white line, Header at 14PSI boost http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/hp_and_tq_plots_high_and_stock_boos.jpg I painted the header silver so it looks like the ceramic coated finished product. http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/top.jpg http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/side.jpg http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/side2.jpg http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/bottom.jpg http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/installed1.jpg My buddy put alot of red silicone on the flange. I know it looks bad but it works. http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq352/ucw458/Header/installedwturbo.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 The header company is supposed to call me tommorrow to talk about per unit prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Rockon for a mockup it already looks good...great dyno numbers too..My 19c will go nuts with this header for sure.. Sure beats my 22 year old manifold... I am glad you stuck with it man. Your dedication is surely appreciated. It is easier to say screw it and just make one for yourself but you are trying to help the whole starquest community. We need various vendors thats how we get better product from our vendors each time we have another trying to get quality product the rest need to step up or step out of the game...We need choice in our products!!!! SAY NO TO SOCIALIZED VENDORS........................................................................hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Look, I'm actually this guys friend moreso than any of the blind backers. If he puts out anything close to that prototype, he will be looking for trouble and will have a lot of unhappy people wanting more than their money back. His words are obviously inexperienced, so I want to help him and the community here by not allowing his inevitable wrong path to continue forward without some reality checks along the way. There have been several better attempts at headers by reputable companies that many people had big problems with and more money has gone down the drain on headers that didn't work, than did. Therefore I am butting in to show his effort is far less than previous BS headers made by real header companies. Like I said, only time will tell the story about longevity of the header and other things that can break from a bad fitting header. So, who will help this guy. The even less experienced positive thinkers and their 'get er done' BS posts, or the guy who isn't afraid to tell the whole story about what has happened on this site for over 12 years, and the BS products people try to sell here? It's the community I care about and his verbiage from the very beginning has shown his hand to be lacking true knowledge about the very product he is trying to market. If he needs a hack mechanic like me to tell him this stuff, he doesn't stand a chance at marketing a 2.6L turbo header. Well, actually he didn't stand a chance. That's why he came here and solicited post after post about how to do what. I also like to put a fire under someone who obviously was letting complacency set in and wanting to stop with the current design and also getting defensive about posting numbers. What is more beneficial? Someone who puts a challenge under your butt, or the completely clueless cheering section? So don't tell me anything about giving this guy a hard time. It is nothing compared to what he will get from unhappy customers and their ruined headers, heads, exhaust manifolds, etc... All of them looking for their money back with a lifetime warranty! If he can't afford to make a couple of prototypes, then he sure can't afford to pay for everyone's broke header. I agree, we can always use another vendor. The worst problem is inexperienced people buying his product will have no idea how to work on a car, but will foolishly try to install it themselves only to screw it up and blame the header, even if it isn't bullet proof. If it is bullet proof, at least he stands a fighting chance. They will have loose studs that they won't fix first. They will use standard nuts. They will not have a flex tube anywhere. They will bolt up some homemade BS downpipe to it. All this and still blame the header for all the problems they induced themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 the reality of all this is NO ONE is going to offer a "life time warranty" on any header so get that out of your head it ain't gona happen :biggrinumbrella1: That is exactly what this guy promised, and one reason I watch his words very closely, and I advise the community to do the same. He talked lifetime warranty for under $500 for a one header works for all applications, no new pipes need made, everything stays in the stock location, any turbo, any wastegate, etc..., etc... So lets see what he delivers. Don't talk big and then backtrack. Talk small and correct, and build up from there. Someone mentioned all turbo exhaust cracks. Don't tell me, tell the guy who promises (boastingly I might add) a lifetime warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Unfortunatly a header like that will not fit. I tried. Most of the eclipses I've seen that use the header you posted invert the turbo so the header in the pic is actually upside down. Lots of room for that. When I tried to do that for the starion I ran into the motor mount and the oil filter. There's just no room for that without raising the turbo flange 3-4 inches and that would put the turbo into the hood. I'm loading pics on my computer, will post them very soon. Eclipse turbos are 'inverted' stock. It would be the manifold into the hood. It has actually been done before on our cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Eclipse turbos are 'inverted' stock. It would be the manifold into the hood. It has actually been done before on our cars. Do you really belive no one here would be annoyed if I ripped off Indianna's design and mass marketed it? Do you also realize stock parts do not fit with that design? http://www.b2600turbo.com/header%20inverted%20II.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) That is exactly what this guy promised, and one reason I watch his words very closely, and I advise the community to do the same. He talked lifetime warranty for under $500 for a one header works for all applications, no new pipes need made, everything stays in the stock location, any turbo, any wastegate, etc..., etc... So lets see what he delivers. Don't talk big and then backtrack. Talk small and correct, and build up from there. Someone mentioned all turbo exhaust cracks. Don't tell me, tell the guy who promises (boastingly I might add) a lifetime warranty. Have you ever looked at header companies warranty policies? You should do some research before you post your opinion. Here are just a few that took me 5 minutes to find. And my company isn't listed here so there are more companies that have a lifetime warranty Headman Headers lifetime warranty policy Borla Million Mile Warranty ( basically a lifetime warranty unless you think your car can go one million miles ) JBA Headers Lifetime warranty policy Edited April 30, 2009 by ucw458 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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