Reached Out To GodSpeed. Not Sure It Will Go Anywhere...

[wrngwae]

Well, for us here at GNT we have been trying to tackle the Relay rod or centerlink what ever you want to call it. we have found a place that can rebuild them and/or manufacture them. But, it just isn't going to happen. new manufactured parts are very reasonable but we just cannot swing the minimum order for them to start. no to mention a minimum order of 500.... i don't even think 500 cars are on the road let alone willing to buy one. we just dont have the 50k to make it happen, it just wont happen. now the rebuild ones are expensive and a possible option but there is a core issue. we play hell getting shifter cores back, i cant imagine a relay rod would be any better. by the time you figure the shipping it to us,,,,, then the re builder,,,, then back to us,,,, then to you,,,, and you ship the core to us MAYBE,,,,there is no meat left on the bone not even 5$ so most likely we wont offer that service either. and those are the parts NEEDED to keep you car on the road. people would rather swap to a rack set up and spend 500$ plus than 300$ or more for a rebuild and possibly have to use a balljoint ream for a 1/16 bigger ball joint. See,,, Greg and I have lives and bills like the rest of you. and we do what we do for the love of the cars but we cannot work for free. it just isnt worth it. if you have one shipping issue or warranty parts. your loosing money. we loose enough buy owning these cars lol....We will still keep digging on a viable option but it is Very Very time consuming. Do we make money on parts,,,, yes we do... are we raping people,,,,, well, we haven't quit our jobs yet and have no plan to anytime soon. That said, we will also be digging into Torque tubes soon too but, i really cant see a better ending to that research but, we have to try. its our duty to our own cars and this community. So i give credit to whom ever can get anything produced for these cars and encourage everybody to try and find new vendors. Edited April 18, 2015 by wrngwae

[RonnieJ]

Every part is different. The D2s, air dams, steering couplers, ect are all things that are replacing NLA parts and will eventually be necessity for most of these cars. Things like tail lights, hatch spoilers, and cowls are more dependent on taste, mileage, and regional conditions the car lives in, and whether or not the car stays in the garage or out in the weather. So, some things are gonna sell better and more regularly than others. I try to keep 2-5 of the u joints in stock, but sometimes I get hit with a rush and they all get gone. I spent a lot of time and money up front to ensure that the part would be a reliable, long term fix for us all. Not just some cheap epoxy crap that could eventually cost someone their car or worse. So, anyone who wants to complain about me making a couple of bucks off of my hard work and financial risks is more than welcome to PM me with their thoughts and concerns.

 

I just wonder if Godspeed did decide to make something for us...how long would it take for the to realize the same things every other vendor that tried doing stuff for these cars has realized? K DM, MK1, and others have all left us because of cheap arse owners who want champagne parts for a malt liquor price tag. The same owners who then complain and sometimes flat out slander a vendor if something isn't exactly perfect or the dumb arse owner just isn't smart enough to put it on the car properly. Nikofab knows what I mean and I'm not even gonna touch the subject of the "I'm down for a set/part" crowd.... I think that has just become part of any GB or potential offering.

 

Oh, yeah and I do plan to make and sell new tail lights.....if I can pull it off. I am starting with 83s and we'll see how it goes from there.

 

"Why 83's first?" You may query.....

 

Because those are the ones I like, the ones I want, and it's my dime.

 

If you want something different, faster than I am able to provide it....please go spend several thousand of your own dollars finding good parts to pull molds from and making those molds, and vacuum chambers and pressure chambers for something that won't net you a single penny of profit.

 

Cheers.

 

BC_99

 

[Turbo Cary]

Hey I am thankful for all the vendors even though I have not yet purchased stuff from all of you. I try to keep a minimum of 3-500 cash on hand for GP and other stuff because I'm afraid. Afraid of parts not being available.

 

When quickconq did the poly GP initally I was like hell yeah I need it and I am going to get in on it in case it never happens again. It is a risky buisness that is amazing you all undertake. I have kicked around the idea myself of making parts but I am not sure of what to make or who would buy.

 

For instance my door panels have soft beadboard/cardboard under the cloth. I figured I could reinforce it using fiberglass mat then make a mold for spares.

 

But who realistically on here would buy blank door panels with no skins? Sure I could try to make it easy to transfer the upholstery over but maybe some people have different tastes. Some might say well i dont want an FRP panel but if you make a carbon fiber one I'll buy it and then arguments ensue.

 

Why not just shut up and say ok here are the options available, quit bashing or talk about how much you can do it better or find it for cheaper and just pay what people are asking. Did anyone complain about Convettes wide fender flares going for 2g's? No cause they are the shiznit and worth the money.

 

The vendors here take time out of their own lives and money to provide a product and service for you. Be grateful.

[NikoFab]

Niko you're a good man on those D2s, I can't say I would do the same.

 

Nah not really...they only cost me some phone calls and emails...and it's worth it to keep the production possibility extended.

[NikoFab]

the "I'm down for a set/part" crowd.... I think that has just become part of any GB or potential offering.

 

This is the single-largest difficulty that a group buy author has to deal with. I've actually done so many, that I have developed a formula to help predict how many "interested" will actually follow through and become "purchased" The second largest difficulty is people who partially pay, but then don't finish their commitment...it really puts me in a bind especially with D2s...and makes it difficult to encourage further limited runs from them.

Edited April 18, 2015 by NikoFab

[NikoFab]

Well, for us here at GNT we have been trying to tackle the Relay rod or centerlink what ever you want to call it. we have found a place that can rebuild them and/or manufacture them. But, it just isn't going to happen. new manufactured parts are very reasonable but we just cannot swing the minimum order for them to start. no to mention a minimum order of 500.... i don't even think 500 cars are on the road let alone willing to buy one. we just dont have the 50k to make it happen, it just wont happen. now the rebuild ones are expensive and a possible option but there is a core issue. we play hell getting shifter cores back, i cant imagine a relay rod would be any better. by the time you figure the shipping it to us,,,,, then the re builder,,,, then back to us,,,, then to you,,,, and you ship the core to us MAYBE,,,,there is no meat left on the bone not even 5$ so most likely we wont offer that service either. and those are the parts NEEDED to keep you car on the road. people would rather swap to a rack set up and spend 500$ plus than 300$ or more for a rebuild and possibly have to use a balljoint ream for a 1/16 bigger ball joint. See,,, Greg and I have lives and bills like the rest of you. and we do what we do for the love of the cars but we cannot work for free. it just isnt worth it. if you have one shipping issue or warranty parts. your loosing money. we loose enough buy owning these cars lol....We will still keep digging on a viable option but it is Very Very time consuming. Do we make money on parts,,,, yes we do... are we raping people,,,,, well, we haven't quit our jobs yet and have no plan to anytime soon. That said, we will also be digging into Torque tubes soon too but, i really cant see a better ending to that research but, we have to try. its our duty to our own cars and this community. So i give credit to whom ever can get anything produced for these cars and encourage everybody to try and find new vendors.

 

Well said Tye.

[NikoFab]

Hey I am thankful for all the vendors even though I have not yet purchased stuff from all of you. I try to keep a minimum of 3-500 cash on hand for GP and other stuff because I'm afraid. Afraid of parts not being available.

 

When quickconq did the poly GP initally I was like hell yeah I need it and I am going to get in on it in case it never happens again. It is a risky buisness that is amazing you all undertake. I have kicked around the idea myself of making parts but I am not sure of what to make or who would buy.

 

For instance my door panels have soft beadboard/cardboard under the cloth. I figured I could reinforce it using fiberglass mat then make a mold for spares.

 

But who realistically on here would buy blank door panels with no skins? Sure I could try to make it easy to transfer the upholstery over but maybe some people have different tastes. Some might say well i dont want an FRP panel but if you make a carbon fiber one I'll buy it and then arguments ensue.

 

Why not just shut up and say ok here are the options available, quit bashing or talk about how much you can do it better or find it for cheaper and just pay what people are asking. Did anyone complain about Convettes wide fender flares going for 2g's? No cause they are the shiznit and worth the money.

 

The vendors here take time out of their own lives and money to provide a product and service for you. Be grateful.

 

[SOTTY]

SOUP !

[twojayzeestarion]

83 lights are hella simple they are literally like 6 peicez of plastic

[NikoFab]

83 lights are hella simple they are literally like 6 peicez of plastic

 

It seems that easy conceptually...reality is a whole different story. Six pieces means six complete processes. Each process involves scanning, digitizing, prototyping, tooling, mold-making, secondary prototyping, and trim/finish. Then there's the fact that on such a piece, you cannot use vacuum molding...you must use injection molding...which is about eight times more expensive.

 

Here's a quick financial breakdown...and I'm being generous.

 

Scanning, digitizing, and tooling = $700 X 6 units = $4200

Prototyping = $300 X 6 units = $1800

Mold Making = $4000 X 6 units = $24000

Secondary Prototyping = $300 X 6 units = $1800

 

As of this point, you're sitting at $31800

 

Then there's the fact that five of those pieces are made from one media, and the sixth from another. This means you're now having to buy into two separate medias. In the manufacturing world, you have to buy in bulk and with a minimum order, or the manufacturer won't even look at you twice. Even if they require only a minimum $2500 order per media (in all likelihood it would be higher), you're still looking at $5000 minimum order.

 

As of this point, you're sitting at $36800

 

Let's say that you can produce 150 units (I take this number from experience) with your $5000 worth of media, it's still going to cost you around $100 per unit ($15000 total) to trim, finish, and assemble.

 

As of this point, you're sitting at $51800

 

Assembly can't be done without hardware. Let's be generous and say that's going to cost you $20 per assembled unit ($3000 total)

 

As of this point, you're sitting at $54800

 

Let's say the entire process has worked flawlessly (which it never does) and these very generous numbers stick, you now have $365 invested into each unit. In effect, that's YOUR cost per unit. Let's say you're a super-cool guy and only want to make a %25 profit on each set...that makes the sale price to the customer $456.25 Since I've shipped tails before I have a good idea that it's going to cost the customer around $25 to ship, now the cost to customer is a lofty 481.25

 

Keep in mind that none of this accounts for waste, storage of inventory, warranty, packaging, or manning a customer support medium...the cost of each must also be passed to the customer to prevent you from taking a loss.

 

Not so simple anymore.

Edited April 20, 2015 by NikoFab

[pcristquester]

Reality check for everyone^^^^^. If still not convinced, try it yourself

[twojayzeestarion]

Id buy 4 sets of brand new remade

83s@ 500$ without thinking twice

[twojayzeestarion]

Apeice

[NikoFab]

Id buy 4 sets of brand new remade

83s@ 500$ without thinking twice

 

I'll make you a deal...you find me another 146 prepaid buyers at that price, and I'll take it on.

Edited April 20, 2015 by NikoFab

[NikoFab]

Id buy 4 sets of brand new remade

83s@ 500$ without thinking twice

 

Keeping in mind that I haven't even sold 100, let alone 150 airdams yet (in two years)...and that's a much higher demand part...and is priced about $200 less than what we're talking about here.

Edited April 20, 2015 by NikoFab

[wolfsquest]

AArrgghhh!!!, but we're cheap so-n-so's!! I say nothing ventured, nothing gained, whatever the outcome is, at least David made the attempt, thx, Dave.

[Fuze]

Good input from everybody. I think two things are being conflated together here, but are separate issues.

 

One is the "cheapness" of Starion owners.. Well, most of the past years I have owned one I've been broke, so I get it. I've bought parts for the car when I was younger and not eaten dinner for a few days, if that's what it took. If you're not making more money as you get older, you're less likely to make those kinds of decisions. In reality, most of America is in no position to dump money into a hobby car.

 

The other factor is the amount of actual Starions still on the road, which determines your potential market size. There are not many left, and not many were sold originally compared to the competitors from Mazda, Toyota and Nissan. Supply and demand, we're kind of at the point where there's so few of us that the minimum supply is more than the demand will ever be, at least for expensive parts.

[D-VO]

Niko I'd say your numbers are low by 50% on the cost side, but you've done this before. Thanks for sharing the information.

[NikoFab]

Niko I'd say your numbers are low by 50% on the cost side, but you've done this before. Thanks for sharing the information.

 

Oh my they are absolutely low no question. Those numbers don't account for a lot of stuff, and they assume that the process goes perfectly, which never happens. In reality such a project would probably run closer to $70K. The point was to illustrate that even if you could get those ridiculously low prices by some act of God-knows-what, that you'd still be looking at a end-user cost that's just simply not effective.

Edited April 20, 2015 by NikoFab

[BC_99]

Id buy 4 sets of brand new remade

83s@ 500$ without thinking twice

 

You're not far off the mark on the price I will be charging, however...since according to your statements about how us NASCAR guys are just dumb rednecks that only turn left and drink bud light....I doubt you will be interested when I do offer them for sale. Good luck in your search.

 

BC_99

[NikoFab]

You're not far off the mark on the price I will be charging, however...since according to your statements about how us NASCAR guys are just dumb rednecks that only turn left and drink bud light....I doubt you will be interested when I do offer them for sale. Good luck in your search.

 

BC_99

 

NASCAR guys...sometimes they drive straight too

[twojayzeestarion]

You're not far off the mark on the price I will be charging, however...since according to your statements about how us NASCAR guys are just dumb rednecks that only turn left and drink bud light....I doubt you will be interested when I do offer them for sale. Good luck in your search.

 

BC_99

yea right if you posted a gp on them tomm id be the first on the list paid in full. id more thand likely buy 10 sets for all of my cars. think im kidding..well im not

 

and seriously man i was cutting up. sorry to slander you source of income and hobby. i understand. and i gurentee im more redneck than you will ever be my friend. me sayin woo left turns bud light. is more of an inside joke in my friends circle. i really do not want that to idiotic joke to make you get the wrong impressin of me.

[wolfsquest]

I was also cuttin up about bein' cheap, but was being real sayin' thx. (just so no one misconstrues things.)

[BC_99]

 

yea right if you posted a gp on them tomm id be the first on the list paid in full. id more thand likely buy 10 sets for all of my cars. think im kidding..well im not

 

and seriously man i was cutting up. sorry to slander you source of income and hobby. i understand. and i gurentee im more redneck than you will ever be my friend. me sayin woo left turns bud light. is more of an inside joke in my friends circle. i really do not want that to idiotic joke to make you get the wrong impressin of me.

 

Im not in your circle of friends, and racing isnt just a hobby or a source of income for me, it is a committed career that takes more dedication and sacrifice than most can imagine. And I think you missed the point of my statement, if tomorrow or whenever I offer a gb on them, your name won't make the list, period. Reckless words have consequences just like reckless actions.

 

BC_99

[twojayzeestarion]

Lol ok like i care ill still get em. You would have to not sell them at all to anyone. I pretty much have unlimited money.more dedication than i can imagine or anyone for that matter... I just dont beleive it. Ill never go to a race again. Just watch tv now. Last year bristol was less than 10% full the way i see it your lucky if your job will last till you retire because nascar will be no more in 50 years i gurentte you that.