Fidanza and Spec Clutch issue

[Scotty Dont]

So I have been having an issue getting the car into gear for a while and I finally got the clutch apart. I found that the fingers of the diaphram are not all at the same height (see pic below) this was causing the pressure plate to continually put pressure on one side of the disc. It also wore one side of the flywheel insert down to the top of one of the screws. Would it be possible to get the fingers all back to the same height?

 

Bonus question: All of the alignment dowels have fallen out of the flywheel, what should I use to put new ones back in, loctite?

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b84/trippleCing/89%20Conquest%20Restoration/_MG_4885.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b84/trippleCing/89%20Conquest%20Restoration/IMG_4878.jpg

[Technology]

They look pretty close to me. was the transmission bolted down all the way to the engine, and/or the pressure plate fully seated on the flywheel? It does look like the throw out bearing was a little off center. Call SPEC, they are very friendly and helpful.

[Scotty Dont]

Its to the left side in the pic (more noticeable in person) and where the fingers that are lower in orientation to the flywheel there is a lot of wear on the flywheel insert obviosly not fully releasing in that location. Yes everything was bolted up right

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Bonus question: All of the alignment dowels have fallen out of the flywheel, what should I use to put new ones back in, loctite?

 

Loctite usually works best on threaded fasteners, the dowels get pressed or tapped into the flywheel. If the dowel holes are enlarged or out of round, loctite won't hold em for long. Between the friction plate, disc and pressure plate being worn unevenly, the dowel holes being shot, I would replace everything to play it safe.

My guess is that the clutch wasn't aligned or torque properly from the beginning so it ended up killing itself and flywheel together. OR,

the throwout bearing fork has issues which would explain the uneven fingers on the pressure plate.

[Scotty Dont]

Bonus question: All of the alignment dowels have fallen out of the flywheel, what should I use to put new ones back in, loctite?

 

Loctite usually works best on threaded fasteners, the dowels get pressed or tapped into the flywheel. If the dowel holes are enlarged or out of round, loctite won't hold em for long. Between the friction plate, disc and pressure plate being worn unevenly, the dowel holes being shot, I would replace everything to play it safe.

My guess is that the clutch wasn't aligned or torque properly from the beginning so it ended up killing itself and flywheel together. OR,

the throwout bearing fork has issues which would explain the uneven fingers on the pressure plate.

 

Didn't really answer my question, I guess I will jb weld them in. I hammered the fingers all back even and will throw it back together with a new pilot bushing and see how it holds. If it breaks I will fix it I guess.

 

I also measured the wear on the flywheel to the screw head and it was only worn .20mm compard to the other screw so all should be good.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Scotty Dont

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Didn't really answer my question, I guess I will jb weld them in. I hammered the fingers all back even and will throw it back together with a new pilot bushing and see how it hold. If it breaks I will fix it I guess.

Yep, JB weld will do it

[Scotty Dont]

Yep, JB weld will do it

 

What would you suggest then? 2 of them fell out a couple years ago.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Make a shield in the tranny tunnel in case something takes a walk

 

take the flywheel to a machine shop, have them redrill slightly larger dowel holes, install new dowels; pressure plate holes for the dowels will also have to be enlarged. Then what are you going to do about the uneven wear on the flywheel? Fidanzas friction plates don't have much material for resurfacing. If you put a new disc between an uneven flywheel and a pressure plate thats probably uneven as well, you'll be doing it all over again pretty soon.

Edited December 6, 2010 by DieHARDmitsu.

[Indiana]

Sure the wheel is seated? When the clutch is released the disc will along to the input shaft and if the wheel is off it would cause wear only on the high side but that doesn't explain the fingers but that could have caused the wear but what bent the fingers. U ever pulled the motor with that clutch in it and maybe did that?

[Scotty Dont]

Sure the wheel is seated? When the clutch is released the disc will along to the input shaft and if the wheel is off it would cause wear only on the high side but that doesn't explain the fingers but that could have caused the wear but what bent the fingers. U ever pulled the motor with that clutch in it and maybe did that?

 

 

 

That is my guess! I'm just going to throw it back toghter tho, it held fine to 7k, 2.00 60ft and 5k clutch drop drifts. It will be fine and I will make it the best I can without buying a a new clutch and fylwheel insert. Nothing has to be perfect but I can get it pretty damn close. It drove fine with only one dowel and the bent fingers, I just fixed the fingers and I can put the dowels in no prob. Don't act like the thing is going to explode cause it wont but if it starts slipping I will buy a new insert and clutch.

[Indiana]

Three different times with fidanzas I've seen dowels fallen out but it didn't seem to make any difference at the time.

[Scotty Dont]

Three different times with fidanzas I've seen dowels fallen out but it didn't seem to make any difference at the time.

 

Perhaps they are drilling the holes too large?

[Indiana]

I think its because the wheels heats up and when it expands they can fall out and its why I guess you should use that green loctite adhesive on them too not just the pilot bearing. If they went all the way through you could hammer them in and mash the ends but you couldn't reuse them.

 

 

 

 

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Hammering the dowels might work to get a more snug fit. When you put em back in the flywheel, use a center punch and hammer around the edges of the dowel holes as well.

[mstieg]

From what I've read & heard, the dowels are there to help take on the sheer force while the PP bolts simply hold the PP to the fly...otherwise the rotational sheer would place some hella pressure on the threads, which usually holds okay if properly torqued, I wouldn't care to trust that too much if it's beat on much.

 

You can simply get the next size up dowel pin from Fastenol and drill the holes about 1-2mm smaller than the new dowels. Bake the flywheel in a hot oven for 20-30 mins and install the dowels while hot. When it cools, it will contract and those suckers are in for good. You'd need to drill the PP's dowel holes a wee bit larger as well (exact same size as the dowels). Sorry that I don't have these sizes avail off the top of my head. It's been a while.

 

I only did this with the crank dowel since my Fidanza is now mounted with friggin studs vs those tiny PP bolts which came loose after an idiotic grease monkey shop overtorqued em and 3 came loose later...another story on why I don't trust others to work on my ride. =)

[mstieg]

Hammering the dowels might work to get a more snug fit. When you put em back in the flywheel, use a center punch and hammer around the edges of the dowel holes as well.

 

^^

I see where your going with that...It's possible to mash the expanded alum "back" into place, but I wouldn't really trust that to hold a new dowel in place. If they're falling out, those holes in the fly are already damaged, and beating on them will at best temporarily get em kind've back, but overall the holes are still opened up more than they should be.

 

I forgot to mention above, a little tap tappin' is necessary to get the new slightly bigger ones in there after expanding it with the heat however. Be careful to not hit em sideways or off-center or it'll open up too much again and lose the killer grip fitment again.

Edited December 8, 2010 by mstieg

[89PalermoSHP]

you can "spark up" the edges of the dowel with a welder for an easy way to get them to snug up in the hole.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

^^

I see where your going with that...It's possible to mash the expanded alum "back" into place, but I wouldn't really trust that to hold a new dowel in place. If they're falling out, those holes in the fly are already damaged, and beating on them will at best temporarily get em kind've back, but overall the holes are still opened up more than they should be.

 

I forgot to mention above, a little tap tappin' is necessary to get the new slightly bigger ones in there after expanding it with the heat however. Be careful to not hit em sideways or off-center or it'll open up too much again and lose the killer grip fitment again.

I suggested in an earlier post for him to get slightly larger dowels and take a chance with that instead of loctite or other questionalbe methods.

My guess is that aluminum flywheel itself could be warped other than the uneveness of the friction plate...could cause more problems down the line.

[Dad]

I think its because the wheels heats up and when it expands they can fall out and its why I guess you should use that green loctite adhesive on them too not just the pilot bearing. If they went all the way through you could hammer them in and mash the ends but you couldn't reuse them.

 

 

X2 on green loctite- they make a large gap retaining also

 

Dad

[Caliber308]

This is just my opinion on Fidenza flywheels: I personally think they are too light and fragile for the torque that a Starquest puts out.15 Lbs. on a Aluminum flywheel can be dangerous. If you run one of these.....Use a scatter shield above the Transmission. A 32 to 36 lb. lightened Stock flywheel seems to work best for our cars. I use a 35 lb. Stock shaved one. I am not trying to trash members using Fidenzas, Just trying to tell others to be safe with their choices. Starquests are based on torque, not RPMs.Want high RPMs to 7000? Install a Roller set up with a Stock lightened flywheel and Cylinder head modifications High RPMs have and always will be based on the above information.It has always been that way.V-8 or 4 Cylinder, Turbocharged or not.We all make power from the Cylinder head. The more the Cylinder head is refined, the more power and RPMs we make.I don't make this stuff up, it has been proven for years. From my days modifying V-8 Street rods, to Flatbottom V-8 race boats to Kit cars, Harleys and finally Starquests. Cylinder head modification has been the key to making power.

 

 

Bill

Edited December 8, 2010 by Caliber308

[luisitoturbo]

look best thing to do is put stock flywheel and get a 89 and up mazda turbo 2 clutch kit works perfect thats what i have that aluminum flywheel is strong but when it heats up evrything gets loose

[mstieg]

Sorry if I was a bit redundant DieHard

 

To answer the OP, for that wear pattern to be off-center like that would have to be either the bellhousing bolts going loose, a bad pilot bearing and/or input shaft bearing in the trans, or clutch fork as was mentioned. Correct me if I'm wrong here gurus.

 

On the potential weaknesses of the Fidanza, yes, aluminum isn't as solid, and there are tradeoffs to dropping that much rotational force out of the designed stock equation. Some good, some bad...another thread.

 

But for those with questions about reliability I really think it's about as reliable as the rest of the setup and proper installation allows for. Not saying the OP messed up by any means, but those dowels have to treated very carefully to go in exactly straight the first time. Hammering in without heating it up can and likely will loosen up the holes. Mine only got loose after a dummy shop made the PP bolts to strip out and got the whole shibang a loose like a prom date. Held up great for 30k before that and since the upsize. I love the ACTXtreme btw. friggin beastly and bulletproof.

[Technology]

I have a fidanza and is fine with high torque. No problems whatsoever with two different clutches on there. The latest is the spec stage 3+ that slipped, but I was told to put it back in and break it in again. I didn't break it in enough, but I think with more work, it will hold like it should. It's rated for 525tq and SPEC said it is not rated at it's true limit.

 

But yeah, fidanzas are good flywheels and the engine revs fast with them. Stock flywheels are heavy pigs!

[luisitoturbo]

I have a fidanza and is fine with high torque. No problems whatsoever with two different clutches on there. The latest is the spec stage 3+ that slipped, but I was told to put it back in and break it in again. I didn't break it in enough, but I think with more work, it will hold like it should. It's rated for 525tq and SPEC said it is not rated at it's true limit.

 

But yeah, fidanzas are good flywheels and the engine revs fast with them. Stock flywheels are heavy pigs!

 

 

well i have that heavy pig on my car and i havent have no problems but everyone has the opinion ...........

[jinx]

Stock flywheels are heavy pigs!

correct, but u still won't outgun another car because of a fidanza.

the starquest is the real heavy pig. Replace that on your 2.6 - lol ...like some of us did. NO part will ever do more for a G54. honest. heheh

Edited December 9, 2010 by jinx