1989Quest Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 Summary: Get larger diameter sway bars, poly end-links, and poly bushings. They are fairly simple to install and you will notice significantly better handling immediately! I picked up a set of MK1 sway bars a while back and never got around to installing them because of some fairly recent health issues. My car had a hydraulic problem with the clutch so D_Venable came over today to help me with it. After we resolved the clutch problem we decided to throw the sway bars in. One of the mounting points for the front sway bar bushing seemed to be stripped so we decided to leave the front bar for a later time. We did wrestle with the rear bar for awhile and got it installed. I've put about 10 miles on the car since then and all I can say is wow! When compared to my stock sway bar setup that has one year old Mitsu components it made a huge difference in the responsiveness, handling, and predictability in general. My car isn't heavily modded. In terms of suspension I have stock springs (130,000 miles on them), one year old KYB's at all four corners (~15,000 miles on them), and F/R strut tower braces. I don't have the aftermarket front sway bar installed yet and did not use poly bushings (just the end-links on the rear are poly). Still, in my opinion this is one of the best affordable mods for a Starquest. Especially in terms of suspension. Another thing worth noting is that the rear sway bar alone seems to provide much more of an improvement in handling than front and rear strut tower braces. I can't wait to see how the car handles with the upgraded front bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killtodie Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 Glad you like them, I have the Suspension Techniques bars myself, noticed a big difference. The same can also be said about poly engine mounts, huge improvement in handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 strut tower braces don't do anything on these cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 bigger sway bars are effectively doing the same job as increasing your spring rates when cornering. although they don't correct for crappy struts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Quest Posted July 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 strut tower braces don't do anything on these cars. I agree. I can't say I noticed much, if any difference following the installation of my strut tower braces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 yeah, you wouldn't. these chassis don't flex much, and not in a manner in which the tower braces are going to compensate for. ultimately, you'll surpass the coefficient of friction on your tires (aka lose traction) before you have enough sideways load to compress your tower braces closer together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 strut tower braces don't do anything on these cars. incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoBodyGod Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 incorrect. Please give us a clue what strut braces provide for our cars, because I never could tell any difference when I had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 bigger sway bars are effectively doing the same job as increasing your spring rates when cornering. although they don't correct for crappy struts. This is one part of my car I've never really addressed, so this thread and this input is valuable. I mean I did the suspension thing a few years ago, but I never got around to "tuning" it for drivability and handling. I'll be sure to pick up a set of these sway bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Quest Posted July 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 This is one part of my car I've never really addressed, so this thread and this input is valuable. I mean I did the suspension thing a few years ago, but I never got around to "tuning" it for drivability and handling. I'll be sure to pick up a set of these sway bars. I believe Addco and Suspension Techniques also manufacture sway bars for Starquests. I don't know the specs for those or type of material either manufacturer uses. I do believe that the MK1's are 25 mm for the front and 21 mm for the rear whereas stock might be ~21 mm for the front and ~18 mm for the rear. I am unsure as to what specific type of material the MK1's are composed of. From what I found online (you, or most everyone may already know this):larger bar diameter4/smaller bar diameter4 * 100 = percent change in stiffness*Note: the "fours" are exponents Assuming that my numbers are right for the stock diameter, stock vs aftermarket bars are solid (99.9999% certain they are) and composed of the exact same material (doubtful in my unprofessional opinion). So, on paper the front would provide a ~200.86% change in stiffness (two times stiffer) and the rear would provide ~185.26% change in stiffness (1.85 times stiffer). In the real world, the rear felt like it tightened up significantly and was very noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Quest Posted July 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 Glad you like them, I have the Suspension Techniques bars myself, noticed a big difference. The same can also be said about poly engine mounts, huge improvement in handling. Hmmm, I might have to look into the engine mounts. What is required for installation? I assume the engine must be lifted, is that correct? Do you have a link for these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 The same can also be said about poly engine mounts, huge improvement in handling. Poly engine mounts in these cars do not affect the suspension. They are merely stronger mounts to hold higher HP motors down. That's all. They may affect FWD cars handling but not these cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killtodie Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 Poly engine mounts in these cars do not affect the suspension. They are merely stronger mounts to hold higher HP motors down. That's all. They may affect FWD cars handling but not these cars. After I had mine installed it made a noticeable improvement. If a huge 500lb object in the car is more steady and doesn't wobble around you get better handling characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989Quest Posted July 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 After I had mine installed it made a noticeable improvement. If a huge 500lb object in the car is more steady and doesn't wobble around you get better handling characteristics. Is it possible that your stock mounts were worn and that is why you noticed the improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killtodie Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) Is it possible that your stock mounts were worn and that is why you noticed the improvement? Possibly, but they didnt look that bad. Edited July 25, 2010 by Killtodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim si Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 Possibly, but they didnt look that bad.ive been thinking about using solid mounts.do you think it would help better than poly mounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 ive been thinking about using solid mounts.do you think it would help better than poly mounts?It would buzz the fillings out of your teeth...Not worth it go poly and get a bit stiffer..I drove a 944 with solid mounts and it was horrible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 agreed drove a sn95 with solid mounts. SO poopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 Don't have beefier aftermarket sway bars, but did replace the stock bars with poly mounts and that helped quite a bit...so did the Stedebani poly suspension bushing kit. It's a royal pita to do, but coupled with good springs and struts it handles like a new car. The nose barely drops on a full brake stop. New OEM engine, tranny, TT, and rear end mounts also helped quite a bit...no surprise on any of this stuff with the old originals over 22+ years old. Just cool to feel the difference and have an already cool car wake up even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 4wd Rally Starion used strut tower braces, to the firewall. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_99 Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 I run onepoly engine mount and one oem. both poly was way to much vibrations coming through the car and my engine is fully balanced. one of each stiffens the engine in the bay but lessens the vibes. BC_99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) Please give us a clue what strut braces provide for our cars, because I never could tell any difference when I had one. ever read the older posts about how the stedebani brace makes the front end go where you want it? drive your car with good upper strut mounts hard on and off the throttle through some tight corners. now put a front brace on and do it again. its gonna be obvious. if you just cruise around or blast the straight aways it wont matter, especially if you already have sloppy upper mounts. hard quick steering changes the distance betwen the strut towers to change and thereby changes camber and increase bump steer so the brace minimizes that and keeps the car going where you want it. yeah, you wouldn't. these chassis don't flex much, and not in a manner in which the tower braces are going to compensate for. ultimately, you'll surpass the coefficient of friction on your tires (aka lose traction) before you have enough sideways load to compress your tower braces closer together. thats like saying your tire are gonna give anyway so why bother beefin up the suspension? just the rear swaybar made a nice difference for him and he doesnt have to push the threshhold of his tires to get that. it the responsiveness and lack of flex and slop in the steering and suspension. think about. if you are working behind the wheel to compensate for flex and weak spring rate you are gonna feel more confident when the flex is gone. take the steering coupler in these cars for instance....fix that and the car is much more responsive.kiilltoad thinks his car handles better with the new engine mounts because it feels better he's more connected and can feel what the car is doing ... driver to car connection you can feel what it gonna do .... thats what the brace does for you i think my car handles better with urethane trans mounts because i can use the throtlle to throw it around and not compensate for the flex of the bushing. when i roll off the throtle heading into a corner i can feel the engine breaking start to happen better and roll back on the throttle and shift weight to the rear keeping it from sliding out. yeah, you wouldn't. these chassis don't flex much, and not in a manner in which the tower braces are going to compensate for. ultimately, you'll surpass the coefficient of friction on your tires (aka lose traction) before you have enough sideways load to compress your tower braces closer together. sideways force eh? is there any force created when do a quick manuveur with the steering? these cars have power steering you might have known. so when i crank it hard right/left do my front tires just break loose? no. it actually moves the car through a corner and if any tires break loose when you do that its the rears almost always. so what does that say about the front end? when you steer the car the tires grip and make the car corner. park the car against a curb and steer it...you are gonna get flex in the strut tower or another suspension componect before the tire looses grip. fact. Edited July 25, 2010 by JohnnyWadd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 It would buzz the fillings out of your teeth...Not worth it go poly and get a bit stiffer..I drove a 944 with solid mounts and it was horrible.. Both mounts in poly was too stiff for me. Rattled like crazy. I switched back to one rubber mount and one poly. Oh and for the thread, my understanding of solid or stiff engine mounts has always been that it was for energy transfer, not handling, but I suppose in "extreme" setups, if power that would have been delayed as the engine rocked on its mounts is able to be transferred to the wheels more quickly at the apex of a turn, then it "might" be a benefit to handling. Otherwise, not seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 After I had mine installed it made a noticeable improvement. If a huge 500lb object in the car is more steady and doesn't wobble around you get better handling characteristics. And how did you notice this? did you drive around with your hood off? You are fooling yourself if you think it handles better. IF the engine was flopping around like you say then it would have been bashing into the strut towers. Stiffer motor mounts only lessen motor movement under acceleration. And your car does not have nearly enough HP to require stiffer motor mounts. Sad but true, you are not running a 500+ hp MPI car so you don't really need poly mounts. I run onepoly engine mount and one oem. both poly was way to much vibrations coming through the car and my engine is fully balanced. one of each stiffens the engine in the bay but lessens the vibes. BC_99 I'm running the same setup you are. While I don't really need a poly mount I got one in a trade and descided to check it out. I may switch back to an OEM unit because just having one on the drivers side transfers more vibration to the rest of the car that I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted July 25, 2010 Report Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) Poly engine mounts in these cars do not affect the suspension. They are merely stronger mounts to hold higher HP motors down. That's all. They may affect FWD cars handling but not these cars. much of the way our cars handle is the modulation of the throttle to keep the rear from sliding out or from hooking up so quick (limited slip) or just to keep the peeky turbo power band under control so actually have a mininal flex motor mount is going to in one way or another effect the suspension. And how did you notice this? did you drive around with your hood off? You are fooling yourself if you think it handles better. IF the engine was flopping around like you say then it would have been bashing into the strut towers. Stiffer motor mounts only lessen motor movement under acceleration. And your car does not have nearly enough HP to require stiffer motor mounts. Sad but true, you are not running a 500+ hp MPI car so you don't really need poly mounts. I'm running the same setup you are. While I don't really need a poly mount I got one in a trade and descided to check it out. I may switch back to an OEM unit because just having one on the drivers side transfers more vibration to the rest of the car that I like. DAM dood you are kinda a drama queen. he never said it was 'flopping around'. and you dont need 500hp to make a good engine mount help you . look at what you typed(answered your own question) "lessens motor movement under acceleration" well exactly thats what it did for him. he can control it better. Edited July 25, 2010 by JohnnyWadd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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