What head gasket to use with an O-ringed block?

[Scotty Dont]

 

Ok Chad. So what is to prevent a " O-ring" from blowing out too. I still feel that having both the Engine block deck and the Cylinder head surface perfectly flat with ARP Head studs (torqued properly) and a Good head gasket (like the AJUSA MLS) the best combination. Multi- layered Steel head gaskets will do the same thing that O-ringing the engine block will do: (see HKS Stopper Head gaskets).

 

Bill

 

The recess in the block that the o ring fits into is what holds the o ring in place, this is a proven method no voodoo majic or hearsay.

[Chad]

 

Ok Chad. So what is to prevent a " O-ring" from blowing out too. I still feel that having both the Engine block deck and the Cylinder head surface perfectly flat with ARP Head studs (torqued properly) and a Good head gasket (like the AJUSA MLS) the best combination. Multi- layered Steel head gaskets will do the same thing that O-ringing the engine block will do: (see HKS Stopper Head gaskets).

 

Bill

 

As Scotty Dont pointed out, you don't understand the O-ring process.

 

Now throw in receiver grooves and you have an even better seal than the standard oring process, but unless you are pushing 200+ HP per cylinder, it's problaby not worth while.

 

Seems to be the only way to get copper gasket ot seal since it's not going to spring back during heat cycles like the cheap composite gasket cores and steel fire rings do. Thats why the copper gaskets sometimes only last a few hundered miles on otherwise good builds.

[psu_Crash]

I had my head and block done perfectly flat. O-ringed block with .040" SS wire and .007" protrusion. I initially used the Ajusa gasket and then went to the Felpro 8770 PT. Both sealed up just fine. APR Studs torqued to 90# Edited May 24, 2012 by psu_Crash

[desert_starion]

O-ringing the Engine block along with the SCE Copper Head gasket is old news If you have a Engine block deck that is trued and a flat surfaced Cylinder head that are perfectly matched with a good head gasket...Why O-Ring? O-Ringing a Engine block tells me that something is not machined correctly. Cylinder head lift at high boost contributed to Cylinder head gasket or Head bolt failure? If the parts are machined correctly and you install a good MLS Head gasket with ARP Head studs at the proper torque, then why the need for O-Ringing? P.S. I see this a lot, members over-boosting because of bad advice from certain members on this site. To the newer members:You had better do some research prior to turning your boost up above stock levels.

 

Just my opinion,

Bill

 

The G54B engine was designed to accept up to 10-12 psi of boost max in with all the factory internals. Now having said that, In order for this engine to accept 2-3 times as much boost, some things need to be changed. (forged pistons, ARP head studs, etc etc etc)

 

I boost over 25psi with a big turbo on my Race Built G54B Engine. This almost always results in a blowout of the gasket at #4 Cylinder near that damn water jacket (when using Fel-pro stock gaskets),if you notice, that is where the gasket has the least material and just was not designed for this level of boost, you are right, the newbie's need to know this before going crazy on a big turbo. . I have experience with ALL of the available gaskets even the TITAN copper.

The head lifts very slightly at high boost levels, and most combustion gases seep past the seals, no matter what Gasket you are using. This is just the way it goes with G54B, ALSO copper HG eventually just leaks coolant like nothing else. No matter how nicely decked your Block/Head is, this will happen with a High Volume High Boost Turbo, but maybe not with a stock turbo.

 

SOLUTION? O-Ringed Head, or even better the Block, and then Use the Stock Felpro Gasket. No more problems. I am the proof.

[Technology]

I'd like to update my results too, I used the 8770 with an o-ring protrusion of .004 from the block, as some people might know who follow my build thread, and it had no problems at 29 psi. I haven't driven it at that setting because the clutch would slip on the street, and of course, I've been AFC (Away From Car) for nearly a year and a half, so I will see how it goes when I get it back driving (hopefully in a couple weeks or less). Anyway, it was doing very well at 25-27psi before the clutch went.

 

These last two weeks I've spent replacing the heater core because D_Venable figured that when the AJUSA leaked and pressurized the coolant, it ballooned the heater core and caused it to begin leaking. I agree with his idea on that, as it was indeed bulging sideways when I removed it. I'm waiting on my ECU to get back, and I need a new wideband sensor, then I can get it out on the road.

[1989STAR-ESIR]

Has anyone had any luck with the Felpro 9116 and ARP studs?

 

Currently with stock head bolts on a new Felpro 9116 it leaks and burns coolant. Tommorow I plan on installing the ARP studs to 100ft/lbs and see what happens... Sounds like higher than stock torque with ARP studs and most headgaskets seal pretty good. Cross my fingers and ma toes.

Edited May 25, 2012 by 1989STAR-ESIR

[Tim_C.]

Time on the calendar doesn't say much about how well a set-up is holding up. Miles and type of miles is what adds validity to a set-up. No set-up much over 18PSI will last near as long as ones at 18 and under.

A small glitch in even a new fuel system at 30PSI of boost, will detonate and cause severe damage. Any part that doesn't respond perfectly every time will cause damage. Who's engine was bored with a plate bolted on it? Those will stand a little better chance of not having a lot of blow-by too. If not, then the blow-by and crank case pressure will cause even more issues. All in the name of fun and bragging rights.

So don't be discouraged when big boost builds blow up. It is a matter of time and less of it the more the boost. With all of these newer members buying their $400 StarQuest and wanting to put 30 PSI boost to it, I've seen a lot of owners blowing it up and scrapping the car after they find out how much it keeps costing to boost them that high.

I say keep the levels safe and drive it tomorrow is the better motto for the majority of StarQuest owners. We love to focus on the hype of high boost levels when that focus is the single most damaging thing to the preservation of these cars.

Go ahead and crank up the boost, which some of us can do without crying after it blows up. But the majority of us can't afford that, and need something we can drive.

These cars can be discouraging enough without our insatiable need to overboost the crap out of them. Be happy with a sound running car and drive it for years to come. There are some exceptions like Technology who have taken many a step to ensure things are in the best condition they can be in, and can afford to do a rebuild from time to time. Not many of us can do that and survive the learning curve without a lot of pain.

I guess my point is to avoid the pain because it aint worth it.

[Dad]

Tim, Very well said! Props to you!

 

Dad

[Technology]

I wasted lots of money re-doing it the wrong way. That's how I learned, and it was all a slow process. Having good hardware and a really good tune is the key to keeping it together, even at high boost. Also constantly driving around on maxed out injectors or fuel pumps is the wrong way to do it, even though most turbo guys do it that way (me included). My current plans are for a fuel setup capable of 1000 hp on e85, just so I know I have the headroom. Also having a clutch that holds more than my engine makes is high on my list of priorities. Things like that make higher output quests last longer.

[Caliber308]

Tim, Very well said! Props to you!

 

Dad

 

Agreed !! Guys.....Most of you that post here now in the VM and AVM Forums are newer members (Older members have already made the modifications needed to run higher than stock boost safely.(Well, some of them have) . You have to know UPFRONT what it is going to take to run 25 psi boost and above safely. Tim C.s post is a excellent start. How do you plan on using your car? Daily driver, Drag racing or Road Course??? 25 psi and above Turbo boost requires a lot of modifications to your Engine, Fuel set up and Electronics. Get it wrong......You will be rebuilding your engine. Like Tim C. says " Buying a car for $1000.00 and slapping a larger than stock Aftermarket Turbo on it while turning the boost up above stock levels" will only lead to a blown engine. Engine building (properly), Camshaft choice, Cylinder Head choice, Fuel Modifications and Electrical mods will allow you to boost above Stock levels...SAFELY. Choose not to do them, and turn up the boost......That is on you, if you don't heed the advice your getting. If you like, you can read my modifications in my signature. I run 12 psi boost most of the time. With the Engine mods, Camshaft mod, Fuel mods, Turbo mod and Electrical mods.....My car gets to 6000 rpms in a hurry, And will do 7000 rpms at 20 psi boost (when I turn it up, Rev limiter is now set at 6000 rpms).... SAFELY all day. And has done it since 2005. The choice is yours. After all, we are here to try and help you Not to give you advice on how to blow your engine up

 

If you have any questions. P.M.me,

 

Bill

Edited June 13, 2012 by Caliber308

[Caliber308]

almost 7 years on the O-RINGED head and Fel-Pro 8770 and boosts over 32psi and no problems what so ever

 

That's great. Most members don't boost to 32 psi

 

Bill

[mstieg]

Good revisit to this old thread with some solid results. Thanks all for contributing.

 

I think I'm convinced to get the block O-ringed and roll with the Fel-Pro. I also do not believe it will be neccesary to boost highly (even if it can take 30+) and will keep that rev limiter in the safe zone even if new cam & rollers allow more. Of course turbo size per boost psi plays a part too, but that's another discussion. Good stuff guys.