Casey_L Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I just rebuilt my motor and finished a 150 mile break in period. I have not changed the oil since I first started the engine up. The oil looked like it had a slight glisten to it, a metalic shine. All the metal particles were very small and were not caught by the filter. Other than that the oil had nothing else in it. No metal flakes like when I had spun bearings. Is this un-common? I talked to a few people and they say it is normal. The engine has great oil pressure, 38psi warm idle, and it will spike 100+ on my autometer gauge in upper RPM's. I have been running the car without a wastegate and I followed MikeC's rebuild advice in this thread. The engine feels strong and sounds good, doesn't burn any oil. However, I have a slight noise comming from the timing chain area. It is only at idle, and not under load or in the upper RPM ranges. I thought the v-belt was squeaking but the noise is still pronounced when all the belts are off. I think the sound may be from the timing chain breaking in. Should I pull the pan and see what the rod bearings look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 why no its not normal, geez either you didn't wash all the parts throughly or there is a problem, hopefully its just poor clean up of parts and the oil filter by the way doesn't filter 100% of the oil 100% of the time did you wash the block with hot soapy water, how about flushing the oil cooler? Was any work done to the block by a machine shop? -they do not wash parts and make them ready to use that is all up for you to do you wash the crankshaft and its passages? remove the cam and wash the head? where ever oil went before needs to have been all washed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19cturbo Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) ^^^^^^ what he said.. Edited June 5, 2008 by 19cturbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey_L Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Thanks for the fast reply guys. The block was bored 20 over. When I got it home I cleaned it out with soapy water and throughly blew everything out with an air compressor. I flushed the oil-cooler and the lines with brake clean followed by compressed air. I am using a factory Mitsubishi oil filter. I used assembly lube on all moving parts. The crank was turned 10 under on the mains and polished on the rods. I blew out all the passages on the crankshaft with compressed air and ensured that nothing was in the passage ways. I sent the entire head to the machine shop and he did a valve job and put it in a plastic bag. I took the head out of the bag and put it on the engine. I cleaned out all the oil-squirters and used a bran new OEM oil-pump. The engine also has a BSE kit from dad with ARP head studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey_L Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 in referencing this thread chad says that the metal dust is normal and from the cylinder walls. There was a good crosshatch on the walls. When I tested the piston / cyclinder wall clearance it was a hair over the upper limit. I figured at that point there was nothing I could do about it and figured it would be fine. The engine pulls strong without the waste gate installed so I figure it isn't much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 As stated above. X 2 There was an advanced engine build class done a few years ago. They had some top builders from around the country machine, and assemble several engines. Just before the engines were to be put together the instructor went around to each engine with a white tshirt and wd40. each engine still had loads of dirt. So even the shop might have cleaned the engine inside and out. And you may have cleaned it. Just sitting will collect dirt also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Clear, With very small pieces of TINY metal specs. Just my opinion, But you should change the oil and oil filter at: 100,200, 500 and 1000 miles with 10w30wt oil. CALIBER 308 Edited June 5, 2008 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) why no its not normal, geez either you didn't wash all the parts throughly or there is a problem, hopefully its just poor clean up of parts and the oil filter by the way doesn't filter 100% of the oil 100% of the time did you wash the block with hot soapy water, how about flushing the oil cooler? Was any work done to the block by a machine shop? -they do not wash parts and make them ready to use that is all up for you to do you wash the crankshaft and its passages? remove the cam and wash the head? where ever oil went before needs to have been all washed He's just screwing with you. You will see a "sheen" on most oil changes. CALIBER 308 Edited June 5, 2008 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey_L Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Clear, With very small pieces of TINY metal specs. Just my opinion, But you should change the oil and oil filter at: 100,200, 500 and 1000 miles with 10w30wt oil. CALIBER 308 Thats what it looked like. The metal specs came out of the pan first, than the oil cleared up after about 1/2 the oil came out of the engine. I think I may put a couple more miles on the engine and do another oil change just to see what things look like. At what point should this metal sheen dissapear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Thats what it looked like. The metal specs came out of the pan first, than the oil cleared up after about 1/2 the oil came out of the engine. I think I may put a couple more miles on the engine and do another oil change just to see what things look like. At what point should this metal sheen dissapear? seeing metal specs does not sound too good to me, maybe take an oil sample and have it checked. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) Thats what it looked like. The metal specs came out of the pan first, than the oil cleared up after about 1/2 the oil came out of the engine. I think I may put a couple more miles on the engine and do another oil change just to see what things look like. At what point should this metal sheen dissapear? You may see a very small amount of "metal sheen" everytime you change your oil. It's not a big deal. After 3000 miles on my engine rebuild, I see it. CALIBER 308 Edited June 5, 2008 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 On the noise from your timing chain area, with the engine running watch the crankshaft pulley to see if there is movement in it. They are 2-piece unit that separates over time. As the 2 pieces rattle and bump each other it sounds just like chain rattle. Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 The metal content should be less than you would see in metalic paint, but more than totaly clear. the largest metal particle shoudl be barely visible. As cal said, just a sheen, not metal flakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The metal content should be less than you would see in metalic paint, but more than totaly clear. the largest metal particle shoudl be barely visible. As cal said, just a sheen, not metal flakes. Every build I have ever seen or done (I have personally done 3) has made a shimmery sheen on the oil the first change or 2. I think this is bearing flashing material etc. I doubt this is damaging. its almost like Chad said, a metalic 'flake' effect or like microscopic glitter. But so far it sound slike you are doing everything right. Just keep an eye on that oil pressure and change it again @ 500 then 1000 and you should be a-ok Dont forget the filter.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey_L Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The metal specs were microscopic. I wish I took a picture. I still have the oil so I think I may. I am going to send my oil filter off to a guy to a friend of a friend that is a pro engine builder. In about 3000 miles if the engine is still running I well send a sample to be analyzed. I have narrowed down the clicking/squeaking noise to the timing chain tensioner bouncing around. I put the car up on a lift and was really able to hear everything in the engine. The sound is defenitly coming from the front cover so I am not too worried about it. If it gets louder I will take off the cover and drop the oil pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The metal specs were microscopic. I wish I took a picture. I still have the oil so I think I may. I am going to send my oil filter off to a guy to a friend of a friend that is a pro engine builder. In about 3000 miles if the engine is still running I well send a sample to be analyzed. I have narrowed down the clicking/squeaking noise to the timing chain tensioner bouncing around. I put the car up on a lift and was really able to hear everything in the engine. The sound is defenitly coming from the front cover so I am not too worried about it. If it gets louder I will take off the cover and drop the oil pan. When you did the engine rebuild, did you install a new timing set? Just curious. CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey_L Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I got the block back from the machine shop mid march and got the engine in the car in may. I coated the cyclinder walls with assembly lube during assembly so the block would not rust on the inside while I was waiting for some time to finish the car. I bought a new BSE timing chain kit from Randy at Engine Machine Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 You oil pressure goes over 100 psi in the upper RPMs?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey_L Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) Yeah I think so. Or stops at 100. I can't tell because I don't know if it is going past or staying at 100. When my autometer gauge is at about 100 at 3000 rpms the factory gauge is just a hair above 1/2 way. Shows how not accurate the factory gauges are. My oil pressure readings where conclusive with indiana's readings on a freshly rebuilt motor at this page. Running about 38psi at warm idle. However he used a used oil-pump while I used a new OEM Turbo Starion one. Edited June 6, 2008 by Casey_L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Mine used to pass 100 PSI whenever I topped about 5000 RPM. I've blown out 2 autometer oil pressure sending units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) I was under the understanding that the bypass should kick in before 80psi. 100psi + cant be good. At what point do you start blowing seals? Edited June 6, 2008 by FlattopMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The bypass works, it's just too small above 5000 RPM in my case. I was blowing out turbo rear seals arround 100 PSI (garrett turbo). I think I was hitting about 120 PSI by about 8000 RPM . I installed an external oil pressure regulator (designed for dry sump pumps) that is regulated to about 95 PSI max, no more over-pressure problems. I have a new pump, no balance shafts, and fairly stright forward build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey_L Posted June 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 I am running the factory turbo that I rebuilt myself. No smoke yet. I like the sight of oil pressure on my engine. I have never had that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 I changed the oil on my new engine after about 45 minutes of high idle time and it had a slight metallic look to it. I was told that is normal (as I think has been established) Oil pressure runs at about 60psi at cold idle, 1200 RPM, and is at 85psi at 3000 RPM. That is the highest RPM the engine has seen yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 on any new engine change the oil when ever you can see the metal , be sure to change oil and filter,, it's very normal and is the rings seating into the cyl walls , it should stop after a couple oil changes or 1000-5000 miles i'd not place the engine under excessive load or boost untill after this particals is done being worn off into the oil, as heavy loading of the rod and mains will cause embeding of the metal into the brgs them selves the wear in time veries from engine to engine , one may never see any and another may take 5k miles to wear in , but most see at least one good batch of particals in the oil for one change or more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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