Just got off dyno....

[notfried]

that's an awesome tbi setup,Drew

 

amazing what some detail work will do

Edited May 11, 2010 by notfried

[BlueCook]

Thanks A lot man!

 

Uploading picture of translator now!

 

Drew

[BlueCook]

Sorry these pictures are really blurry, this little digi cam sucks. Ill take better ones tomorrow with the big camera. Here is an idea though!

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/Bluecook/P5110044.jpg

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/Bluecook/P5110046.jpg

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/Bluecook/downsized_0318001500.jpg

[brianpaul98]

Hi Drew, just sent you a PM. Hows the car running by the way? We love updates

[BlueCook]

Nothing new really haha, it pretty much just sits at the house till we have something new to play with. Got a new clutch put in and went to the drag strip. Did a 13.7 at 102 at 10 psi with a horrible and I mean horrible bogging start. Like I launched at 4900 rpms and the car fell on its face to 1500 rpms. Guess well figure out how to launch these Mickey Thompson's soon...

 

Sending you a pm now Brian

[Technology]

Good ET on that run. Launching is difficult, but it sounds like you need a two step. Or just lay on the rev limiter to launch. Haha. 10psi won't be too much power anyway.

[underpaidslave]

I gained 100hp just from cam degreeing.... before cam degreeing the car put down 245 hp. Same exact set up just a little different tune on MAFT.

 

i

what is cam degreeing exactly? changeing the cam timing?

[ColtStar]

Great numbers, proof of how carefuly matched part selection can yield great prerformance, with out having to run "stoopid boost" levels.

 

So I guess it's official, my headder "doesn't suck" (refering to another old thread stating it wouldn't add much, if any performance).

What's the deal with the header how much are they going for? How does one go about buying one from Chad?

Not for anything I think a nice header is big on the G54.....all the fuel and air you want only to be held up

by a bottle necked exhaust mani and small turbine.

[NotStock88]

What's the deal with the header how much are they going for? How does one go about buying one from Chad?

Not for anything I think a nice header is big on the G54.....all the fuel and air you want only to be held up

by a bottle necked exhaust mani and small turbine.

 

i know of at least 1 person who runs 400+HP and uses a stock ported exhaust manifold. Headers are great but not 100% necessary

[NudeLobster]

i know of at least 1 person who runs 400+HP and uses a stock ported exhaust manifold. Headers are great but not 100% necessary

 

when people say "but they got xxx hp or xxx tq without it" I always say "think what they could do WITH it!"

 

such as porting. people porting doesn't make that much difference, you don't need to port your TB or manifolds, ect. Question is why not? because it doesn't give as much increase a massive turbo? the way you make an awesome engine and awesome numbers are the little details...porting, proper header design (IE not having runner 1 and 4 headbutt each other like the stock), uniform, FULL hard piping, proper exhaust shape and uniform size and smooth bends, all that makes subtle differences that add up, and really support each other for one big upgrade. if he can make 400hp with a stock manifold, imagine what he could do with a full equal length tubular header!

 

/rant lol

 

-Justin

[Funky Phil]

I make more power with my stock manifold/60mm turbo than I did with my ramhorn tubular/7mm larger turbo/ and 4psi more.

 

Oh yeah, and I dont have to pull my stocker every month for crack repair.

 

Im not saying tubulars arent better because the *can* hold up to daily use. But when Im only lookin for mid 400hp, whats the point. I definatly dont get the same gasps from people with the stocker.

 

10sec 474hp 574tq EIPQuest = modified stock manifold w/ T4

9sec 721hp 650tq Rank = modified stock manifold w/ T4

405hp 527tq TurboAddict = modified stock manifold w/ 16G

12.4sec Lizzord = modified stock manifold w/ 60-1 @ 15psi

 

 

Im convinced!

[Funky Phil]

The SVO guys put cars into the 10's with stock cast iron manifolds aswell.

 

The tubular is one of those things I may try again when I run out of mods to do. But when your talking in the neighborhood of $1000. Ill just run Meth and more boost.

[jinx]

stock manifolds crack alot! Also, a quick glance at the airflow path, and one can understand why it'll become a hinderance when trying to make power (without spray). Works fine for most goals tho, no doubt.

 

Of those HP listed, nitros changes the picture drastically.... the air has to "find" a way out

 

Tainter didn't run his 12.4 on a stock manifold either, and I distinctly remember the comments he made after his homemade header swap.

 

I learn to make turbo headers from a buddy, very clever individual.

Best performing manifolds tested, were the simplest = had short straight runners that converged to the turbo flange (never big diameter). Air does not like to turn corners. Surprised ? - lol

Built from thick wall weld els. Never seen one crack, ever..... and retains heat.

Thin wall, big tube, ram horn, equal length, stock manifolds.... he built/tried them all, and we're a pos by comparison

VERY similar to this one..... which btw makes 600+hp on a street 1.6L, stock bottom end too!

http://i51.tinypic.com/2ecpx8y.jpg

[Technology]

A nice tubular header will increase spool time,but should give more top end power. I'd like to try one someday if only to see the difference.

 

I mean to say increase, as in it will add time.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Technology

[Funky Phil]

stock manifolds crack alot! Also, a quick glance at the airflow path, and one can understand why it'll become a hinderance when trying to make power (without spray). Works fine for most goals tho, no doubt.

 

Of those HP listed, nitros changes the picture drastically.... the air has to "find" a way out

 

So your saying that if the manifold design is causing problems nitrous will make them go away?? That statment doesnt make sense. If a car makes 305whp off nitrous and then you hit it with a 100hp dryshot, Bam 405whp! Id say thing are breathing okay. I saw that with my own eyes. EIPQuest picked up nearly 100whp on a 75hp wet shot. Ranks 700hp car was boost only.

 

If backpressure is an issue it will always be an issue. Nitrous wont change that. The head flows like junk. The muffler you choose wont change that.I swapped from an equal length tubular to a stocker within months of each other. The changes were almost unseen. So I say put that chunk of money elsewhere until you run out of things to try.

 

I dont really like arguing this issue in particular because its an expensive endeavor for those that cannot fabricate. If the majority of people here where in fact pushing over 500whp then sure, have at it. Problem is most folks on this board can hardly afford to get there cars running let alone invest in horsepower. So I say spend the money on something else.

[NotStock88]

So your saying that if the manifold design is causing problems nitrous will make them go away?? That statment doesnt make sense. If a car makes 305whp off nitrous and then you hit it with a 100hp dryshot, Bam 405whp! Id say thing are breathing okay. I saw that with my own eyes. EIPQuest picked up nearly 100whp on a 75hp wet shot. Ranks 700hp car was boost only.

 

If backpressure is an issue it will always be an issue. Nitrous wont change that. The head flows like junk. The muffler you choose wont change that.I swapped from an equal length tubular to a stocker within months of each other. The changes were almost unseen. So I say put that chunk of money elsewhere until you run out of things to try.

 

I dont really like arguing this issue in particular because its an expensive endeavor for those that cannot fabricate. If the majority of people here where in fact pushing over 500whp then sure, have at it. Problem is most folks on this board can hardly afford to get there cars running let alone invest in horsepower. So I say spend the money on something else.

 

I'll 2nd that that notion

[Technology]

Upgrade each part when it becomes a restriction, OR, when you can get a smoking deal on a better part that you didn't necessarily need. lol.

[TainterRacing]

 

Tainter didn't run his 12.4 on a stock manifold either, and I distinctly remember the comments he made after his homemade header swap.

 

 

You are right that 12.4 was with a header I made. The Best we did with the stock manifold was a 12.9sec at 13psi. Not what would say was bad at all. With no other change but going to the header I made I was able to get a 12.7 at the same 13psi.With a new cam and 15psi and I was able to get a 12.4. I made the header with the Idea I wanted it to work with the wast gate wide open. As when your racing your at WOT any how. I did lose some of the low end the stock manifold worked better then the header from idle to about 4500rpms after 4500rpms to about 5000rpms the header and the manifold felt about the same. This is where the header started to shine 5000-6500rpms. So with the header on there the power band was 4500-6500rpms. Just as a side note this was the 4 diff one I had testing and by-far the best. The frist one I made was a real flop I bet I lost 3000rpms of power over the stock manifold. That one was running a 1 3/4in runners after that I used 1.5 runners on the next too both worked much better. Remember this was with my setup not every motor setup will be the same but 99% of every one out there if going to want to run 1.5in runner and I would dare say if your not going to be racing it a lot I would get a stock Type manifold and not go with a full blown header.

[NotStock88]

Upgrade each part when it becomes a restriction, OR, when you can get a smoking deal on a better part that you didn't necessarily need. lol.

Like my Sfp header with real tial 38mm w/g for 300.00 shipped lol. Otherwise, I Would still be with the ported stock exhaust manifold

[jinx]

So your saying that if the manifold design is causing problems nitrous will make them go away?? That statment doesnt make sense

not what I meant, that's your statement..... and I agree, makes no sense.

Nitros doesn't "remove" any restrictions from a motor's components, any more than a turbo bolted to it.

 

Ranks 700hp car was boost only.

and 50psi worth of it iirc. We need to go there to determine that a part "flows well enough" ?

 

Throw enough boost and/or spray at a motor, it will perform

Now don't get me wrong, I fully understand the logic behind retaining oe parts that "work".

Point is, correctly designed components, for eg...... exhaust manifold and camshaft, as discussed here, yield considerable gains... and does so, well before the stock manifold or camshaft becomes a restriction.

Precisely why Bluecook and Tainter "overachieved", using low boost...... and it only gets better

[Technology]

I think 50 psi is decent for 700hp, but the turbo they used was frickin huge. I would expect 500hp at 30psi, and 600 at or around 40psi from my turbo, which is a 62mm inlet. I think theirs was at least 72, right? (gt42r).

[Funky Phil]

not what I meant, that's your statement..... and I agree, makes no sense.

Nitros doesn't "remove" any restrictions from a motor's components, any more than a turbo bolted to it.

 

 

and 50psi worth of it iirc. We need to go there to determine that a part "flows well enough" ?

 

Throw enough boost and/or spray at a motor, it will perform

Now don't get me wrong, I fully understand the logic behind retaining oe parts that "work".

Point is, correctly designed components, for eg...... exhaust manifold and camshaft, as discussed here, yield considerable gains... and does so, well before the stock manifold or camshaft becomes a restriction.

Precisely why Bluecook and Tainter "overachieved", using low boost...... and it only gets better

 

Well, we will have to agree to disagree! HAHAHAHA! Im not arguing that a tubular wont flow better. Im just saying bang for your buck isnt there. Unless your shooting for gobs of hp.

 

On another note, I wouldnt put much stock into what any car "OVERACHIEVES" on a dynocom (EGOPump) I bet that car would barely pass 300 on a dynojet with the same settings.

[jinx]

not arguing that a tubular wont flow better. Im just saying bang for your buck isnt there. Unless your shooting for gobs of hp

well, depends on how much u pay for the header, but..... a "good" header can make a pronounced difference at any level of power. Read the testimonials. Note the results

 

 

I wouldnt put much stock into what any car "OVERACHIEVES" on a dynocom (EGOPump) I bet that car would barely pass 300 on a dynojet with the same settings

maybe....... but what you're missing is, we've seen no TBI car come close at 18psi (on gasoline)

Also, doesn't matter what dyno chosen, a 100hp gain(cam-only) is tremendous! Never seen that either.

 

I use the term "overachieve", as that is exactly what it is among us. Same deal with Tainter.

Perhaps "outstanding" would be a more appropriate term ?

 

....and I will "put stock in" one trait observed over years; ie. extraordinary effort = extraordinary results.

I can't recall any starquestor sweating cam details like Bluecooks' dad..... or anyone building/trying 3 headers like Tainter posted. That's how u raise the bar - lol.

Cut my teeth on old rwd 80s toyota corollas, and still amazed by what a puny 2valve 1.8L accomplished. Led me to believe in 54 'hidden' potential

[Scotty Dont]

maybe....... but what you're missing is, we've seen no TBI car come close at 18psi (on gasoline)

Also, doesn't matter what dyno chosen, a 100hp gain(cam-only) is tremendous! Never seen that either.

 

Wanna bet I could loose 100hp by having my cam extremely out of time? Im not that impressed and it was also NOT with cam timing only, from what I hear he did a few other things as well.

[Funky Phil]

Oh I know the effects off out of time cams. I did my cam on the dyno. Changed degrees til I made max power with a certain position. And thats where it stayed.

 

One of the pulls sliced off 50whp! So I definatley believe in cam timing.