Dave-O Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'm curious to know if anyone here has attempted this before. I can get the carb'd truck G54B all day long at the local yards for $75-$150. Since my flatty has no compression in two cylinders, I figured it would be a viable option to toss in a truck longblock with all the TBI turbo goodies on it, and run it at 12psi until it blows, or I finish rebuilding the stocker. I will have an intercooler added, so intake temps should be taken care of, and I figure as long as I've got the timing backed off enough it shouldn't detonate and kill a piston or valve. Thoughts or suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strang3majik Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 do this :hmm3grin2orange: http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt282/strang3majik/0904mt_10_z1988_dodge_d50engine.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88TSI_Rob Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Definitely doable. You'll need to swap some parts. Oil pan, oil pump, and couple other odds and ends. As you know detonation is the enemy. 12psi might be pushing it, but if you're really careful it can probably be done. Personally, I'd probably dial it back to 6-8psi, at least to start. As you said, retard the timing a little. Make sure your distib. and vac. advance are working well. I'd also consider doing some tricks to richen up the mixture. Up the fuel pressure, block the MAS bypass, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I have always wondered this...wanted to put together the stuff required to make my n/a 1983 technica challenger into a turbo g54b beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 What others have said... PLUS... install the oil cooler. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'm sure you can boost the n/a G54b, but you definately would used the pure long block only and still would have to swap out the oil pump, oil pan, oil pick up tube, water pump and a few other things. I would imagine an n/a G54b with no oil squirters using a turbo oil pump would yield higher oil pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'd say keep the boost low- the pistons are flat top so your compression would be high. forget oil pump and that crap- justt drive it easy untill you can get a real quest block- No oil squirters and the flat top pistons will be your enemy. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 The oil cooler will definitely be used - I intend to use the OEM sandwich plate for our turbo engines on the truck block, and since the cooler is already mounted in the car factory, I might as well. The timing will be rather heavily retarded, for the higher boost pressure, as I know I won't be satisfied running 6psi, haha. I've got a cheap adjustable pressure regulator lying around somewhere, I'll probably use that. Keeping in mind this is a budget beater drift car, I'm not too worried about off-boost response or smooth drivability, as it'll see boost almost the entire time. I do have some cheapo mechanical Sunpro gauges to monitor engine vitals, as well as a Camaro radiator and huge electric fans, so keeping the car cool won't be an issue. I'm mainly concerned about the flat-top pistons' integrity under pressure, I feel they'd be the most likely to fail on boost. Piston oil squirters are an entirely different argument altogether, as I've built several engines both with and without them, and haven't had conclusive results as to whether or not they were a supporting factor in the failure of said engines. I'm going to cross my fingers with this one and see how far it goes. After all, it's not destruction or carelessness, it's "research and development", haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthconquest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I have always wondered this...wanted to put together the stuff required to make my n/a 1983 technica challenger into a turbo g54b beast why not just bolt in a g54bt and be done with it? http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f107/captnsham/sapporo-72.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starwolf Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I don't happen to have an extra one laying around Honestly im not so sure the nitrate crank and rods are really that necessary You would probably want turbo valves though? Either way i would only boost about as much as a flatty does stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthconquest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I don't happen to have an extra one laying around Honestly im not so sure the nitrate crank and rods are really that necessary You would probably want turbo valves though? Either way i would only boost about as much as a flatty does stock i cant wait to ride in the challanger in the pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 you have to figure out how to get the oil filter spindle out of the n/a block, it doesn't have a nut on the spindle itself like the quest does. your going to need the front cover off the quest too. I was going to go this way in my truck but decided against it, don't want to have to pull the motor out in another thousand miles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I'd say keep the boost low- the pistons are flat top so your compression would be high. forget oil pump and that crap- justt drive it easy untill you can get a real quest block- No oil squirters and the flat top pistons will be your enemy. Dad Yes, that also. Higher compression pistons on the n/a block. The oil squirters, not so much. DSM guys run 4G64 bottom ends with no oil squirters all the time and they also eliminate the oil squirters on the 4G63 blocks and end up with higher oil pressure. He can technically take an N/A block and slap some boosted pistons in there with new rings and bearings, I'm sure that would hold up ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Haha... like he said... he's worried about the NA pistons. And he's right... they will fail if he's not careful. And he's wrong... for wanting to boost so high on NA pistons. Keep it low boost or you'll just do the same amount of work in a month or two... again. But this time you'll be out moneyz that you should have used to rebuild a turbo motor, or at least put turbo pistons in an NA motor. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-O Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I won't worry about the front cover, I can just punch a hole in the pan for the oil drain. I was under the impression that the SQ's sandwich plate had an additional threaded spindle that locked the plate onto the block, and also held the oil filter on. That's at least how an aftermarket piece works, and they appear to be similar. I'm not so worried about the compression increase, it's what, 8.8:1 at most? I highly doubt it's anything over 9:1. As far as carbs are concerned, I do have a pair of Mikuni-Solex 42s that I could rebuild for boost duty ... might be a bit small for a 2.6 though, haha. I'd still like to try it one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 turbo oil pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 the sqs spindle comes out in one piece, but it has has a nut on it so its easily removable, the truck blocks on the other hand is just in the block, there's most likely a way to get it out its probably just a pita though...thats what i was trying to get at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 It is 9:1 static CR. That doesn't sound high, but it is crazy high for this engine. Namely the long stroke. Any detonation with those pistons and it will grenade. Ask me how I know? It will have very good low end power and run very well at 5Lbs of boost. Anything over that, even intercooled, and you will need a wideband O2 and a way to increase fuel. That is assuming a perfectly functioning fuel system with the ability to adjust it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 boys it all comes down to this and think about this for more then 10 sec,, if standard pistons would have work'd for 83 -85 turbo engines Mits would not have gone to the trouble of useing heavier pistons,and oil squirters ,and don't think for one moment any one of you would be happy with 5-6 lbs max boost on their engine for more then a week at best ,, next comes the melt'd ring lands and bust'd pistons and cars in the junk yard , and dam POS cars any of you can do what ever you want , but nothing changes the fact,, turbo engines are hard on pistons,, boost the truck engine and get ready for a failure , plain and simple :biggrinumbrella1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan89quest Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Does anyone make forged flat tops for a g54b? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Those pistons could be 15:1 and you could still use them just your boost limits would end up lower. Its that FLAT shape that is the problem and why they can't be boosted high and it won't matter it they are forged or titanium the head gasket will blow because that shape can't effectively burn the fuel quick enough so it gets too hot. You leave the oil jets out and the pistons get over heated. What does that do to the oil around the rings over time? You got pistons that are hot, they get more heat from the compression increase when boost comes in, they can't burn the fuel they get. What part of this is good? None of it. Turbo oil pump? Won't matter one bit which pump you use. You can use a tube and suck oil up from the middle or rear of the block or in the back seat it won't matter. Why did they change the pickup tube to be more in front anyway? First they made the pump front cover and gears thicker to get more volume but it wasn't for the motor, it was because of the oil jets and the turbo lubrication. You are still making motors for non turbo cars so do you change them to the same higher volume pump? Well eventually they did. It won't matter where the oil is drawn from as long as oil is there to be drawn in. Look at those 2JZ motors, they have three different oil pans depending on which car they were in: front, middle or rear oil pick up. All those came in turbo form so was one bad and one better? Can you get the correct pickup tube from the 83 Starion to use the less expensive oil pump? No, and someone should be making those. The issue alone with the o-ring is eliminated when that tube isn't used. What was one issue with the 83 oil pan? It wasn't deep enough and if the pan was mashed the pickup tube could be obstructed. This is working just fine, that's the n/a pump and look where the oil is sucked from. Way down in an add-on part of the pan for 4x4 trucks that the non 4x4 trucks didn't use. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM008054.JPG If you don't have the timing cover with the port in it for the oil drain then put it in the pan where it should have been in the first place. Why have that hot oil puking all over the chains anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan89quest Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I thought the oil was dumped back on the chains to help lube them but maybe I'm wrong idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Hmmmm, maybe all tha hot oil is why the guides don't survive so well on our cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 you know one problem i never had with my turbo truck was cooling . one main reason for that with all configerations i beleave was the 3 qt oil cooler i use'd , oil remove's a LOT of heat , and back to back 1/4 runs never move'd the engine temps , and the truck rad is smaller then the oem quest this made total oil in engine right close to 8 qt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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