Authentic self knowledge

[chiplee]

All I ask is that you repeat to me what you said during my absence. You said it. If you didn't mean it I will accept your apology now.

 

CALIBER 308

 

go away. I don't remember or care. Take it to PM and remind me if you're that butt hurt over it.

 

[Star_V8_Quest]

You can argue 2 points till you blue in the face..esp if both sides are 100 percent in their belief.

what is left then is if it comes to blows,survival of the fittest.Not my rules,rules I was given by a godless world.

and i am not after the meaning of life or after the answer to the worlds problems.

[jszucs]

I was thinking less physical and more mental stuff but I agree that it applies to all aspects of our being. I'm concerned with the ego mind and the variation in our ability to overcome its influence. Many if not most humans simply embrace it as if it is correct and proper. They're victims of their evolutionary drive and impulse and they're proud of it. That makes us mental infants as a species, in my humble opinion.

 

 

That is acutly what I thought you were going for and why I used my example of me treding water. It wasn't that I was physicly exausted. I was mentaly gown. I tired counting, talking to the life guard, treding just with my hands treding with just my feet anything to keep myself going but after about 2 hours my mind gave out and I was done. I guess if I had to for survival I could have keeped going but being the pool edge was close by I got out.

 

Although I do believe the physical is extremly even more then we know tied to the mental. Like how martial arts teach you to focous mind body and soul into a strike or block.

 

Also I don't read as it realy bothers me when I form a counter example and the book dosn't counter my example. but if you wrote a book I would give it a go. You should.

 

Wow you thinking of marrying her. I thought about that with my X fience then she found someone else when she was back in France. I was flying so high though telling everyone I was going to mary her for a good 9 months though. I would take all the pain for even one more day with her feeling the same way.

Edited April 15, 2009 by jszucs

[scott87star]

Hey Chip, have you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

 

Scott

[chiplee]

You can argue 2 points till you blue in the face..esp if both sides are 100 percent in their belief.

what is left then is if it comes to blows,survival of the fittest.Not my rules,rules I was given by a godless world.

and i am not after the meaning of life or after the answer to the worlds problems.

 

That amounts to telling your enemy this; "Since you won't agree, you have to die". I'm not advocating pacifism, but the line you have to cross to justify killing could stand to move a bit. When the big kid on the block shows restraint instead of abusing his power the world notices and respects us for it. When we show arrogance and abuse of power we're hated, and for good reason.

 

"My way or the highway" is not manly. It's ignorant, childish and selfish. Real men resolve matters peacefully at all costs and fight as a last resort. Children fight first and talk later.

 

[chiplee]

Hey Chip, have you read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

 

Scott

 

no but it sounds cool.

 

[chiplee]

That is acutly what I thought you were going for and why I used my example of me treding water. It wasn't that I was physicly exausted. I was mentaly gown. I tired counting, talking to the life guard, treding just with my hands treding with just my feet anything to keep myself going but after about 2 hours my mind gave out and I was done. I guess if I had to for survival I could have keeped going but being the pool edge was close by I got out.

 

Although I do believe the physical is extremly even more then we know tied to the mental. Like how martial arts teach you to focous mind body and soul into a strike or block.

 

I see, and I agree.

 

Also I don't read as it realy bothers me when I form a counter example and the book dosn't counter my example. but if you wrote a book I would give it a go. You should.

 

thanks

 

Wow you thinking of marrying her. I thought about that with my X fience then she found someone else when she was back in France. I was flying so high though telling everyone I was going to mary her for a good 9 months though. I would take all the pain for even one more day with her feeling the same way.

 

I should probably be concerned about having the same thing happen but I'm just not. You know what kind of skeptic I am and that is what's kept me single 'til age 33. This girl has convinced me that she feels exactly like I do. I'll always reserve the right to hold a small measure of doubt about any other human, but if I wait for a more convincing woman I will die single. No one has ever come close, even remotely.

 

[MontyTSI]

Break

 

Sometimes i just sit still for an hour and think about what i can do to better myself and those around me in a positive way. Then i get up and do it.

 

 

Back to the show

[site]

This thread, has a very positive vibe. I like it (well just the post that are directed to the original post)

[BrazilBoy]

As a person I am constantly changing which is enivedible as we grow and learn from our experiences. I live life forword but I can only comprehend it backwards..in other words hindsight is usually 20/20...

 

Oh yes and one more time for fun's sake "GimpLee".........ok now its out of my system

[BrazilBoy]

Break

 

Sometimes i just sit still for an hour and think about what i can do to better myself and those around me in a positive way. Then i get up and do it.

 

 

Back to the show

Is this time spent on a porcelain chair?

[MontyTSI]

In all seriousness...

 

Chip,

 

I have not mastered the art of complete self awareness, have any of us? I try very hard to understand how my actions will relate to those around me. By those i mean humans, animals and the enviroment as a whole. I believe all people are born good and possibly the most perfect they will ever be (read as pure). The enviroment they are brought into is what makes them begin to travel the road they end up on. Its about balance at an early age not necessarily the age old "right and wrong" lesson.

 

From small interactions like: If i hold a door for an older person when they say thank you i simpley tell them no thank yous are needed you deserve it. Or saving all my change and donating it to the hospitals and systems that kept my nephew alive for the first year of his life. Its not about the giving for me its understanding the need for it.

 

Try not to hate the people that do wrong but try to understand what put them there.

 

I am not religious... I am completely and firmly in the fat part of being an agnostic. I love the fact that i just do good things because they are good and not for the hope that i will end up somewhere different than anyone else. I am comfortable with the fact that when i die i will be burnt to ashes and never be the wiser.

 

Im rambling a bit but its hard to explain that i know who i am and how i impact that around me. I have not mastered it because i am self limited by the belief that i cannot.

[chiplee]

In all seriousness...

 

Chip,

 

I have not mastered the art of complete self awareness, have any of us?

 

No, but a few key realizations have the potential to really change the path of a person's life, if they're disciplined enough to act on them. Indulging our ego just feels so good.

 

 

 

From small interactions like: If i hold a door for an older person when they say thank you i simpley tell them no thank yous are needed you deserve it. Or saving all my change and donating it to the hospitals and systems that kept my nephew alive for the first year of his life. Its not about the giving for me its understanding the need for it.

 

Dig it, man, really. Amy and I are considering planning and budgeting for a normal stereotypical wedding and then giving it all to charity and going to the JP.

 

Try not to hate the people that do wrong but try to understand what put them there.

 

If you mean ignorance, then I think I understand.

 

I am not religious... I am completely and firmly in the fat part of being an agnostic.

 

All thinking men are atheists. Go the next step brother, lol. J/k, agnosticism will do for now.

 

I love the fact that i just do good things because they are good and not for the hope that i will end up somewhere different than anyone else. I am comfortable with the fact that when i die i will be burnt to ashes and never be the wiser.

 

That's a beautiful thing worthy of feeling good about. It's also more convincing and more indicative of the quality of your character than doing it for fear of negative repercussion.

 

Im rambling a bit but its hard to explain that i know who i am and how i impact that around me. I have not mastered it because i am self limited by the belief that i cannot.

 

that's not rambling in my opinion. Thanks for sharing.

Edited April 15, 2009 by chiplee

[FlattopMike]

We're better every day. I will marry her. Thanks for asking.

 

 

I bet it will be a beautiful church wedding! :biggrinumbrella1: j/k

 

Glad you're back with both hands.

There has been a lack of intelligent discussion as of late.

 

And, Cal and Star, please tone it down a step. I really don't want to see either of you banned or even suspended. Your perspective brings a unique flavor to the discussions. You add some spice to it but too much spice can be a bad thing. :thumbsup:

[MontyTSI]

I dont have enough scientific proof to explain the beginning of the beginning, nor do i have the faith to believe what cant be proven. So i have to by default hold on to the thought that both, either or niether could be possible. That leaves me no choice but to be agnostic by definition.

[FlattopMike]

As for the topic at hand:

 

I have had many very deep discussions with friends about topics like this.

They were many years ago and usually were interupted by someone saying something like "pass the bong, man".

Any more it just makes my head hurt to think that deep!

I actually just don't seem to have the desire to seek myself out like I used to.

I don't know if I am getting intellectually lazy and complacent or maybe I already know everything I need to but I think it's just that I'm getting old and I've killed too many brain cells along the way.

[chiplee]

I dont have enough scientific proof to explain the beginning of the beginning, nor do i have the faith to believe what cant be proven. So i have to by default hold on to the thought that both, either or niether could be possible. That leaves me no choice but to be agnostic by definition.

 

 

Ah, sweet, then you simply have a slightly skewed view of what "atheism" is, as does most of society. Most people think we've "decided" there is no god. Most think that vice refusing to believe in god, we believe there is no god. That's why they call atheism a religion. They are wrong. I don't have enough scientific proof to explain the beginning of the beginning, nor do I have the faith to believe what can't be proven. So I have to, by default, hold on to the thought that (and here's where we stray from 100% agreement only slightly) I don't know, and therefor both, either or neither could be possible. That leaves me no choice but to be ATHEIST by definition. After all, of what use is the god agnosticism supposes must be possible? Are you hedging your bets in case he actually cares whether you believe in him? Or do you actually believe there's no such thing as a god that cares whether we believe in him, meddles in our daily lives and cares what name we give him and whether we eat ham on fridays and so on?

 

Atheists have NOT decided one way or the other on the question of God. They simply DO NOT DO religion or "theism". I hold almost exactly the same agnostic view of the "possibility" of a creator, utterly unknown to man, but that does not make me agnostic. With this view of agnosticism and atheism it's possible to be an atheist agnostic. If you don't name a god for yourself or adhere to the tenets of any earthly religion, then you are for all intents and purposes, an atheist.

Edited April 15, 2009 by chiplee

[Dcrasta]

Meditation steadies the breathing and strengthens the resolve

 

This reminds me of my Capoeira teacher. He teaches ..

1: Hands are for creating, feet are for destroying.

2: Hold your anger until you cannot hold it anymore, then let it out completely holding nothing back.

 

I try to find quiet time every morning and every night to think about what I have done to seize that day, and how I can anticipate tomorrows opportunities.

 

I like this thread also!

 

As far as Self knowledge. I find sitting in a quiet environment or room, just being aware of myself. I try to focus on listening to my own breathing, my own heartbeat. Then I let that go and try to focus on everything but myself. Awareness of what you know, accepting that there are many things I dont know, helps a lot in my day to day transactions. Trying to be more patient than the other guy in any situation has helped me save face (Im working on it)..

 

To me knowledge of self is like the sea captain. Sometimes a steady hand on the wheel is best in storm. Being confident is not the same as being arrogant or cocky. Steady and consistent.

 

 

 

 

[MontyTSI]

Chip,

 

You made me smile with that one. To my knowledge im not "hedging my bets" just in case. My entire internal struggle revolves around the randomness of the beginning to the beginning. (and my inability to spell or type with consistency)

 

To me a belief system is what you truly hold in your gut. When im alone and thinking, the way i typed it is the only way i know how to describe it. No bets and no hopes. It may be as simple as being limited by my intelligence, i may not have the capacity to think into it any further.

 

 

Heres a twist, im reading the essential teachings of the Dalai Lama. How i love the diversity of men.

[chiplee]

I bet it will be a beautiful church wedding! :biggrinumbrella1: j/k

 

Glad you're back with both hands.

There has been a lack of intelligent discussion as of late.

 

it's good to be back with both hands. Thanks. I don't know what to do with myself, but I'll figure it out tonight after work. Z cast came off this morning so the whole arm and wrist is still real weak and painful to move.

 

 

 

[Shelby]

sorry guys but we all hedge our bets a little , just in case

[Technology]

This thread is retarded.

 

Chip - BOOOOOOOoooo!!!!! Boooo!! Bad thread!

[JustPaus_88TSi]

I can type with both hands again fellas so the vacation is over. Do you think you've acheived authentic self knowledge and if not are you trying to. How are you trying to? What does the question mean to you? Are you critical of yourself and your opinions. This applies to everything we do so getting to the bottom of this question will make you better at everything, including working on your quest.

 

 

Are we talking about self-consciousness or the philosophical state of self-awareness within it?

[jolyrgr]

I would have to agree with Shelby, in that self-knowledge is a journey rather than a destination.

Without sounding like a bad English translation of Asian proverbs, self knowledge (IMHO) is understanding what you are capable of and the limitations that have been set within those capibilities, as well as the limitations to the limitations set. Everyone is capible of great kindness and cruelty, and we set limits to both in our conscoius minds. But we do not really know how well those limitations stand up until they are ultimately put to the test. Until we are forced to re-think, or maybe more appropriately forced to not think about what we would do and just do, are any of us sure of what "type" person we really are? And since most of us are never pushed to that point, can any of it be called "authentic"? Most of us would like to say that we know ourselves pretty good. But, more often than not, that knowledge is nothing more than the "rose-colored glasses" version that we would like to portray to others, or dilude ourselves with.

 

I can at least say this about myself:

I make a point to know what I believe in, while at the same time being able to adamently argue against every point I make.

 

I constantly review past situations and see the paths that could have been taken to improve the situation, while all the time knowing that re-living the exact same situation, with the same knowledge, I would make the same decision again.

 

I know that the only time that I am truly happy with something that I have done, is when I am attempting to improve all the mistakes made the last time.

 

I realize that no one will be more critical of what I do and say than I am. At the same time, no one will defend those actions more than I will.

 

With all that being said, I also realize that I am tired and this may all be deleted when I get some rest. Not sure if this is what you were after, but there you go.

 

JR

 

[jszucs]

I should probably be concerned about having the same thing happen but I'm just not. You know what kind of skeptic I am and that is what's kept me single 'til age 33. This girl has convinced me that she feels exactly like I do. I'll always reserve the right to hold a small measure of doubt about any other human, but if I wait for a more convincing woman I will die single. No one has ever come close, even remotely.

 

 

Yep me to. I swore up and down I would never get married. Then she came along well no ( I had known her since I was in H/S 94' and we were friends ever since. Didn't see each other but wrote almost every day. Then we got together recenly and just hit it off. And like I said it was amazing. Someone acutly pointed out that both of us were blinded by the "Fairytail" of Excange student getting back with boy she liked in H/S. I admit I was in love with the fairytail. But that feeling. I use to be so soured and one would think this would have soured me more, but I say GO FOR IT! Love like you can never be hurt.