Tornado mod in Injector TB

[JPX]

Guys n Gals;

 

  This weekend I will be modifying my Injector Throttlebody when I rebuild it to include a Tornado (Vortex generator) for improved flowbetter A/F atomization... basically mill down the splitter inside the TB before the Injectors....

 

I thought of doing this a week ago and since i know it will improve response (HP and Torque)  

 

PS.The tornado things do work.. tested... 7hp and 10ft/bs  at 4500rpm on my 4 Cyl 2.2 Honda.

 

MSD 6BTM currently being installed...

[turboTSI]

so what u are saying is u are gonna grind out the seperator in the mouth of the TB and put one of those JC Whitney tornado inserts in that whole??

 

IMO I think that will clutter that whole up and ACTUALLY create more problems with atomisation and over all fuel delivery

 

turboTSI

[Yellow_quest]

those things may work on N/A cars, but in a boosted world....they are just another Intake restriction...leave the Devider, and port the TB....junk the tornado, and slap on a 1g mas instead.

 

 

My 2.6L worth

 

 

Yellow_quest

[turboTSI]

I agree 100%

 

turboTSI

[Blackstar]

Hi,

I'm not a wrencher or mechanic but, I used to own a mustang before. I have installed one of those tornadoes in my mustang and it seemed like it worked. Never dynoed it but the response was much better. As for me, I would like to see JP install this thing and let us know the outcome( if it got any better or nothing). JP, if possible, could you first install the tornadoe where the ovcp pipe and the throttlebody meets? If I was to get one, I was thinking of putting it there. Let me know how it works.

[TopDawg_43]

those things may work on N/A cars, but in a boosted world....they are just another Intake restriction...leave the Devider, and port the TB....junk the tornado, and slap on a 1g mas instead.

 

 

My 2.6L worth

 

 

Yellow_quest

 

Exactly what I was going to say.  When boost is on, it's going to get in the way.

[artinist]

that is nothing but a stupid gimmic or else every car would come with one.

 

the concept of the funneling works in their demo of the 2 coke bottels and ANY WHERE ELSE THERE IS WATER MOVING ONE WAY AND AIR MOVING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION to speed up the movement. that is not the case in the intake of the car. it will in no way make the air travel any faster through straight piping or the car intake with all the bends.

 

the whole idea in the coke bottle demo is that when the spin starts to happen, the air from the lower bottle will come up through the center of the funnel and let the water go down to the lower bottle, hugging the walls of the bottles. this has absolutley nothing to do with only air traveling through the intake system. if anything, it will create additional turbulance when it hits the first turn in the intake manifold and cause drag.

 

that idea needs to stay in the toilet.

[Boosted_One]

We already have an aerofoil on our TB.

 

Would be a waste to grind that out for a tornado.

 

Those things have no business being in a turbo car just like the rest of the guys said.

 

But do as you will

[importwarrior]

doesn't the impeller on the turbo act like a tornado ?

 

or give a similar effect?

 

yes i know that was a dumb question. but the dumbest one is not asked  ;D

[heefner]

not sure if the turbo would swrill the air or not but I don't think that would carry through all the i/c piping and the i/c.

[rjf]

There is a basic problem in trying to use a vortex generator

on a "wet" manifold like those on a StarQuest.  It is the same

basic problem we have with the intake design in general.

 

It is all simple physics, the molecules of fuel are heavier than the

molecules of air.

As the mixture goes around a curve, centrifugal force

will drive the molecules of fuel to the outside of the curve.

So instead of improving atomization it hinders it as fuel will

"puddle" on the outside of a curve.  

Just look at a "vortex" vacuum cleaner.  The the vortex causes

the heavier dirt to seperate out of the air stream.

On our "tri-Y" intakes, fuel will be denser on the outside of each curve,

therfore if you follow the flow, it indicates that cyls 1 & 4 will tend

to run a bit richer than cyls 2 & 3.

[Metric-man]

I've seen the tornado work first hand proven efficiency TESTED ON A DYNO!!

I was thinking the same thing take out the splitter in the intake and replace it with a Tornado. But you can also place one at the beginning of the OVCP.

They work they're documented patented and tested.

 

But JPX you should know better than to post a MOD like that without being able to back it up with personal documentation upon completion of testing like on a dyno or ET's at the track.

 

Allot of time even if you prove to your self something works doesn't mean some one else is going to believe you.

 

I have seen the most cynical V-8 loving Vietnam vets be simple blown away by the DYNO results these things do.. so don't be put out by these guys comments...they just have to  do it them self's do be convinced..

 

besides isn't one of the first signs of self healing... denial??

[_Jason]

but you still haven't answered artinist's point... if it is such a cheap mod for a significant boost in power, why don't cars come with them stock?

[Metric-man]

but you still haven't answered artinist's point... if it is such a cheap mod for a significant boost in power, why don't cars come with them stock?

 

Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here, without trying to be read as condescending

 

The going price for a Tornado is about 65.00 to 75.00 US dollars.. I think the same as for a K&N filter for most cars and  trucks, So why don't cars come with K&N's Stock??

[Blackstar]

I would like to comment one more time. I've seen it work on a Mustang before. Most people on this board knows alot about engines and turbo but those are only theory and physics. Why don't we just let the guy try it out? If it works, I'll be getting one too! As for not being on every car, that guy has a patent on it so the car maker don't want to pay him for little gain in hp and mpg. We'll just have to wait and see.

[importwarrior]

if he can post before and after pics of the dyno run!!!

 

i'd chip in 10 bucks towards the dyno run.

 

im sure ten 9 others can do the same,

 

why not.

[chiplee]

while we're on the topic of contraversial "gimmic" mods.  What's with this soundwave gas line clip on dealio that is supposed to improve gas mileage?  It says it takes 10 minutes to install and works 100% of the time.  I'll have to find a link if you guys haven't seen it.

 

oh and I agree, TBs and intake manifolds are a dime a dozen.  Don't ever thwart initiative.  If a guy is going to the trouble to test out something that hasn't been tried why risk putting your foot in your mouth if you can no more prove it won't work than he can prove  it will.  Data, is all we need to hear about.  Good luck dude.

[Lizzord30]

I belive this is for wet intake manifold and if it is well their is air and fuel going throught the TB maybe by chance it may help the top end WOT when the fuel is really dumping (all going throught a very small opening)

[Ratmtattat]

As the mixture goes around a curve, centrifugal force

will drive the molecules of fuel to the outside of the curve.

 

 

Just a minor nitpick, but centrifugal force doesn't exist.  Centripital does. Check it out sometime, it's a pretty interesting thing to read about.

[_Jason]

The going price for a Tornado is about 65.00 to 75.00 US dollars.. I think the same as for a K&N filter for most cars and  trucks, So why don't cars come with K&N's Stock??

 

that's different. while k&n commercials claim *up to* 50 more horsepower (emphasis on up to), the typical gains associated with a canister-based k&n air filter element are quite nominal... their biggest advantage is their ability to cheaply clean and reuse. now, look at how much the local dealership charges to replace an air filter, and keep in mind that most new car owners have their maintenence done at the dealership they purchase their vehicles from. now, factor in the additional costs a manufacturer would be required to pay k&n to purchase the air filters. how is this economically viable? the possible solution would be to remove the air canister and ideally replace it with an open-air element. this would help improve the performance of the vehicle to a slightly more noticable level, but at the same time the noise coming from the intake would increase and the time between servicing would significantly decrease. for a *typical* vehicle owner, do the benefits outweigh the side effects? probably not.

 

now, take a look at the tornato fuel saver. this is simply a plastic impellar intended to both increase fuel economy and power. now, automobile manufacturers would probably not pay tornado to license their product, but rather refine their own or purchase cheaper rip-offs. the result? a claimed (by JPX) ~7% power increase with no side effects. what manufacturer would turn down this, and rather spend time designing heads and intakes?

 

personally, my main argument is, if this is such a breakthrough device, then why are they only sold by tornado (and presumably other no-name companies)? i had a similar debate with people debating whether or not sticking a PC cooling fan in the intake was worth $100/"electric supercharger"... if they work, then why aren't the big names jumping/cashing in on it?

 

another point- look at turbocharging. we all admit that turbocharging has significant power increases. no one i have seen on this board has publically stated that turbocharging a vehicle will not increase the vehicle's power. but there are people giving warnings about the tornado. why?

 

finally, if word of mouth is limited solely to 3 AM infomercials, isn't that alone a warning flag?

 

but do whatever you want... this is just food for thought.

[Metric-man]

the typical gains associated with a canister-based k&n air filter element are quite nominal... their biggest advantage is their ability to cheaply clean and reuse.

 

 

Their biggest advantage is less restricted airflow which leads in hand to their best advantage better fuel economy.

 

now, look at how much the local dealership charges to replace an air filter, and keep in mind that most new car owners have their maintenance done at the dealership they purchase their vehicles from. now, factor in the additional costs a manufacturer would be required to pay k&n to purchase the air filters. how is this economically viable? the possible solution would be to remove the air canister and ideally replace it with an open-air element. this would help improve the performance of the vehicle to a slightly more noticeable level, but at the same time the noise coming from the intake would increase and the time between servicing would significantly decrease. for a *typical* vehicle owner, do the benefits outweigh the side effects? probably not.

 

Maintenance on the K&N has it's short comings with in a dealership service department. Also on the side of the DIYer's

The same has been said of the turbo charged engine

 

now, take a look at the tornado fuel saver. this is simply a [glow=red,2,300]plastic impellar [/glow] intended to both increase fuel economy and power. now, automobile manufacturers would probably not pay tornado to license their product, but rather refine their own or purchase cheaper rip-offs. the result? a claimed (by JPX) ~7% power increase with no side effects. what manufacturer would turn down this, and rather spend time designing heads and intakes?

 

If you ever saw actually saw one your self or even watch one of the infomercials you would have seen that it is stainless steel

 

personally, my main argument is, if this is such a breakthrough device, then why are they only sold by tornado (and presumably other no-name companies)? i had a similar debate with people debating whether or not sticking a PC cooling fan in the intake was worth $100/"electric supercharger"... if they work, then why aren't the big names jumping/cashing in on it?

 

 

Tornado has a huge Patent on their product and has even recently gone after international companies that have been making knock offs.

( I won't even touch the electric supercharger deal )

 

another point- look at turbocharging. we all admit that turbocharging has significant power increases. no one i have seen on this board has publically stated that turbocharging a vehicle will not increase the vehicle's power. but there are people giving warnings about the tornado. why?

 

You got me there ,but you know some people still think the earth is flat.

 

finally, if word of mouth is limited solely to 3 AM infomercials, isn't that alone a warning flag?

 

I have to admit I would normally not just go by a 3 AM infomercial's declaration of accomplishments

but tell me if this picture rings any Bell's...

 

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/pf74b165a94cb4d45b40494d78e985c80/fbd1c9fb.jpg

 

If you have seen the infomercial you may recognize the gentleman on the right in the blue shop coat with the sunglasses.

The bay in the immediate background were the white BMW is parked is one of the dyno's used in the infomercial.

[Boosted_One]

There's already an air foil in the TB housing.

 

Why do we need to split the boost up more beyond that?

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable putting moving parts like that in the intake air path on a turbo charged car.

 

I think it's a restriction. How can you cram the same amount of CFMS into to turbo'd engine when there is a gaggle of stuff stuffed into the intake?

 

I seem to remember a Carrol Shelby in a duralube add too. Look where that product went. LOL! My buddy just got a refund check from Duralube because there under lawsuit.

 

Just because someone is in an add or endorses it doesn't make the product.

[Metric-man]

There's already an air foil in the TB housing.

 

Why do we need to split the boost up more beyond that?

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable putting [glow=red,2,300]moving parts [/glow]like that in the intake air path on a turbo charged car.

 

It's already obvious most the people who talk smack about this really don't know the first thing about it. ( No moving parts.)

 

I think it's a restriction. How can you cram the same amount of CFMS into to turbo'd engine when there is a gaggle of stuff stuffed into the intake?

 

The stock intake is already restrictive, the OVCP is one of the first things most people do as a MOD. I personally suggest placing it at the beginning of the OVCP

or using two one at the throttle body and one at the beginning of the OVCP ( I have my own tests to run) Tornado actually makes one specifically for our cars but if you buy one and have modified your OVCP I suggest buying one according to your measurements.  When you restrict the exit of an applied force (water/ air) the rate of pressure is increased,the design of the Tornado does this with less area loss with greater rate of flow. I have a PT Cruiser and a Toyota Tacoma V-6 both N/A and I get about 10 more miles to a gallon of gasoline...

 

I seem to remember a Carrol Shelby in a duralube add too. Look where that product went. LOL! My buddy just got a refund check from Duralube because there under lawsuit.

 

The guy in the picture doesn't receive personal compensation for his endorsement.

I figure Carrol Shelby probably did from Duralube.

 

There is no replacement for proper vehicle maintenance Tire inflation pressure, clean oil, properly working ignition system, etc... but every little bit helps, most of us use our cars as daily drivers so this will be an advantage I'm not sure you'll see NASCAR endorsements though .

 

Just because someone is in an add or endorses it doesn't make the product.

Your So right I've seen the results in person before installation and after on a calibrated Dynamometer.

[Quest4Power]

why not just grind the stock splitter into a tornado like piece.  just put some grinds on it at the right angles and you have the same effect.

[Boosted_One]

It's already obvious most the people who talk smack about this really don't know the first thing about it. ( No moving parts.)

 

 

The stock intake is already restrictive, the OVCP is one of the first things most people do as a MOD. I personally suggest placing it at the beginning of the OVCP

or using two one at the throttle body and one at the beginning of the OVCP ( I have my own tests to run) Tornado actually makes one specifically for our cars but if you buy one and have modified your OVCP I suggest buying one according to your measurements.  When you restrict the exit of an applied force (water/ air) the rate of pressure is increased,the design of the Tornado does this with less area loss with greater rate of flow. I have a PT Cruiser and a Toyota Tacoma V-6 both N/A and I get about 10 more miles to a gallon of gasoline...

 

 

The guy in the picture doesn't receive personal compensation for his endorsement.

I figure Carrol Shelby probably did from Duralube.

 

There is no replacement for proper vehicle maintenance Tire inflation pressure, clean oil, properly working ignition system, etc... but every little bit helps, most of us use our cars as daily drivers so this will be an advantage I'm not sure you'll see NASCAR endorsements though .

 

Your So right I've seen the results in person before installation and after on a calibrated Dynamometer.

 

 

I meant movable parts. Meaning a gaggle of external stuff installed into the intake tract. Sorry for the misconfusion.

 

I know exactly what a Tornado is as I helped my friend put one in his 2001 Celica.

 

I am debating this topic and not talking crap. Why take it so personal??

 

Relax young grasshoppa