Caliber308 Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Ok, so what is the procedure to pull the lifters? I know how to get the rockers off. How do I fish out the lifters? "TRY THE LITTLE THINGS FIRST"!!!!!!!!!! See if the noise is from the ARP Studs resting on the valve cover............Before you take the rocker arm assembly off. CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Ok, so what is the procedure to pull the lifters? I know how to get the rockers off. How do I fish out the lifters? "TRY THE LITTLE THINGS FIRST"!!!!!!!!!! See if the noise is from the ARP Studs resting on the valve cover............Before you take the rocker arm assembly off. P.S. You must like taking things apart that dont need it. lol. CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 In theory, the lifters may pump up on their own, but only if the weep holes in the rocker arms are free of junk so the air has some where to go. When I pull down a head for R&R, about half the rocker arms are blocked, it's fairly common. They will often pump up on their own if those holes are clear, but I've had to pull a set out and force-prime them with mineral spirits before. Oil has a lot of surface tension, it's real good at holding little bubbles in the lifter no matter how long you run them. Mineral spririts and diesel won't hold the bubbles in like that. It will come out and mix with your oil and they will be pumped up from then on. If the weep hole is clear like it's supposed to be, they will slide in and not hydro-lock as shelby warned. It takes about 10 minutes to pull, prime, and re-install lifters... It's cheap and easy, do that next (after you have double-checked the valve cover). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 If you haven't already done so. Try getting a quaility oil filter that has an anti-drain-back valve. It will help hold oil in the head after the engine is turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 "TRY THE LITTLE THINGS FIRST"!!!!!!!!!! See if the noise is from the ARP Studs resting on the valve cover............Before you take the rocker arm assembly off. P.S. You must like taking things apart that dont need it. lol. CALIBER 308 It's my absolute favorite thing to do... :hmm3grin2orange: No, I am trying to fix this thing before the Import show down and I only have one day a week if that to workon the car so it's getting down to the wire. Pulling the pan was kinda a panic move. Now that the bottom end is in the clear, I am mostly not as concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 The motor was only run for maybe 20 minutes total with the old block with the spun bearing. Don't know if that is enough to clog the lifters but maybe. Basically the story goes, LivesTsi had the car, he bought it without a head, he bought a new Alabama head and installed it and rebuilt the throttle body and made it all pretty and clean. Then he started it up. It knocked, he took a video of it and also let another board member listen to it to verify it was a rod and then sold it to me, via my Dad. My Dad started it to pull it up on the trailer and then off the trailer. I started it to pull it into the garage and then tore it down. So maybe 20 minutes of running with the totally new head. After that I pulled the entire top end off in one piece and set it on my garage floor and rebuilt the motor. The head was extremely clean. 3 months later, maybe 4, I put the motor back in the car and started it up with this noise. I would think that there wouldn't be enough run time to clog it but anything is possible. Those metal flakes are like cholestrol in the veins of the motor. I will go ahead and do the VC and the lifters in the same job and be done with it. Hopefully it is one of those issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marso Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Wish I would have seen this earlier. It's hard to to hear the exact pitch on the comp speaker but it's too high to be a rod. I know you already checked the rod clearances and they're fine. Just a little info you usually can tell what's knocking by the pitch of the knock. It usually get lower the lower you get in the engine except for the wrist pin. That knock sounds hollow because of the echo inside the piston. It does soung like a rocker arm is slamming as everyone else has suggested but again it's hard to tell on my speaker. You need to get a stethoscope I'll be the fourth or fifth to say it. Put it on the vc as the engine is running and move it to each spot where the rockers are. You'll find approximately where to start your search. I still have an inconsistant lifter click even after 5k miles and everything was flushed and spotless when it was assembled in a white room. ( My brother has a shop at his house with a clean room. White walls. Tile floors. air conditioned with Hepa filter just for engine assembly). Check the rocker shaft position. You only have to pull the vc. There are two dots on them that should line up with corresponding marks on the first tower. There is also a bevel that matches the bevel on the tower. Most of the guys that have answered you have more experience with the 2.6 than I do but on the mechanical aspect an engine is an engine (same type that is. Can't compare diesel to gas or four stroke to two stroke. Rotory doesn't count ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 http://www.enginemachineservice.com/alabama.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 there is one other posibility here,, it's very posible that this head was oreg set up for solid rockers,, if so the shafts will not have the oil fed hole for the hyd lifter, this is easy to check, do some reading on this topic in our SOS manual http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=997 it actualy covers about any thing you may need to know about the rockers and lifters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Ok, tonight I got home, ate dinner and went to work on the car. I tore the VC off, took the rocker arm assembly off. Pumped the lifters full of mineral spirits, put it all back together and although it is much quieter it still sounds alittle funny. I think it fixed MOST of the knock but not all. Maybe that would go away after driving but that is not the main problem now. THE MAIN ISSUE now.... The car runs but VERY poorly. It runs like it is missing a cylinder or dragging a cylinder. The motor shakes and it idles VERY low. I know I have a blown rear oil seal in the turbo, IT's obvious to me. The smoke is grayish blue and it is billowing out (see video). That being said, i still think my problem are far more in depth than that. I think I burnt the #4 cylinder rings or they cracked or something. It is running like an old Chevy motor I had that burnt the rings in a piston. Running without compression on one cylinder and running like crap. To further my proof, I pulled the spark plugs, the #4 is wet with gas and the others are not, even more proof, when I pulled all the plugs, the #4 cylinder continued to smoke out of the spark plug hole. I will do an official compression test tomorrow but I think it's over folks. If the compression comes back bad on #4, I am selling and cutting my losses. I am ILL! See videos of the motor running If you got to the link below and watch the first 4 videos you can see the motor running, the tail pipe smoke and the smoke coming from the #4 spark plug hole after i remove the plugs http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v177/jwrape/Conquest/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livesTSI Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Not already... I hate it for you dude, I really do. I'm still hoping you'll catch a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Not already... I hate it for you dude, I really do. I'm still hoping you'll catch a break. Thanks, I need some help from above right now. Divine intervention. Thanks for the vote of confidence though. Maybe, just maybe the compression will come back ok, but I am not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marso Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Wow. Now I don't feel so bad about my car problems. At least I can drive mine everyday. There has to be someone in your area that can help. If I wasn't so far south I would come up and see what I could do for you. If it turns out you do have low compression squirt some oil in the spark plug hole and see if it increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 One is wet with gas? How about a failing plug wire? Go over everything. Make sure you're not dumping twice the fuel you should be. That'll run like crap. What's this smoke smell like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 i guess i'l be the bad guy as usual,, i'd sugest you learn a bit more about what your trying to do,, you get advice on what to look for and are told to stop jumping here and there,, test inspect befor jumping into parts changeing only replace what is need'd but you still jump to conclusions with no suport'd evidence a plug is wet , what does that tell you,, the cyl it came out of is not fireing at all, so your pumping gas into and out of it with out it being burnt,, so heck yes it will smoke what fires the gas,,spark, it gets to the plug thru a wire is the wires good did you even look at them,, did an end pull off ?? is the fireing order right ,, simple things make all the diff in the world , check ,test them befor going after major items cut your loses,, hows that gona help the next car with a problem and your right back where you are now , we can give you the manual to down load, sugest what to check and do, but in the end it's up to you to properly do what is said or told,, and give the results of any testing we can't see or be there , one these sites there's a couple thousand years of experiance and in 6 months time any one can be an expert on repairing these car just from reading the info found on them just slow down and take it slow and easy you'l find the problem it won't find you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 One is wet with gas? How about a failing plug wire? Go over everything. Make sure you're not dumping twice the fuel you should be. That'll run like crap. What's this smoke smell like? It smells like oil and gas. I would have checked the spark plug by holding it on against the engine to see if it sparked BUT i didn't have anyone to turn the car over for me while I looked. i wiwll do that tonight along with the compression test. I am just very frustrated with this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 It smells like oil and gas. I would have checked the spark plug by holding it on against the engine to see if it sparked BUT i didn't have anyone to turn the car over for me while I looked. i wiwll do that tonight along with the compression test. I am just very frustrated with this thing. Now I feel really bad about not being able to make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 (edited) Now I feel really bad about not being able to make it :hmm3grin2orange: That's not what i was implyng there. Sorry, didn't mean you in particular. This was at 11pm right before i went to bed. Not a big deal. Well on a differnet note, I won a 89 knock box on Ebay for $9+shipping. So IF I do make the trip down to Macon, i will have a back up JUST in case the car decides to crap on me again... :hmm3grin2orange: Edited April 25, 2008 by jwrape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 (edited) i guess i'l be the bad guy as usual,, i'd sugest you learn a bit more about what your trying to do,, you get advice on what to look for and are told to stop jumping here and there,, test inspect befor jumping into parts changeing only replace what is need'd but you still jump to conclusions with no suport'd evidence a plug is wet , what does that tell you,, the cyl it came out of is not fireing at all, so your pumping gas into and out of it with out it being burnt,, so heck yes it will smoke what fires the gas,,spark, it gets to the plug thru a wire is the wires good did you even look at them,, did an end pull off ?? is the fireing order right ,, simple things make all the diff in the world , check ,test them befor going after major items cut your loses,, hows that gona help the next car with a problem and your right back where you are now , we can give you the manual to down load, sugest what to check and do, but in the end it's up to you to properly do what is said or told,, and give the results of any testing we can't see or be there , one these sites there's a couple thousand years of experiance and in 6 months time any one can be an expert on repairing these car just from reading the info found on them just slow down and take it slow and easy you'l find the problem it won't find you Un-burnt gas will smoke but not gray smoke, it would be more a black or dark smoke. Granted the smoke smells like un-burnt gas, but the smoke is a cloud of white/gray smoke, maybe with a blueish tint if you hold a flash light through it. See video http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v177/jwr...nt=SV_A0019.flv The wet plug does make me suspect a bad plug wire or something ignition wise. I checked the Cap and rotor button and they still look new with no signs of wear. The firing order is correct because I have been driving the car for the past 50 miles and it idled perfectly from the first start at 1000 rpms. So basically to give an overview of what I have done in the past two weeks. Found that I had a knock of some sort in the motor. I thought it was a Rod so to be sure i checked the rods and mains, they checked out good and i replaced the Rod bearings just cause i was there. Got the car running again, still had the knock. Tried to reve the motor up to 3000 rpms(had not gotten that high before) to see if the lifters would pump up. No joy. Drove it down the highway at 75mph at 3000 rpms for a few minutes, about 5 miles worth. The car starts smoking and runnig rough at the stop light. I stop, see that it is visually ok and notice a little coolant on the passenger side of the motor. Drove it home and parked it for the day. Last night after getting home, I pulled the VC and the Valve rocker assembly. Soaked the lifters in Mineral Spirits and got the bubbles out. Re-installed the Valvetrain, cut excess metal out of the VC to MAKE sure the ARP studs weren't hitting although it had already been trimmed before. Re-installed everything. Started the car, the knock is significantly quieter and the motor sounds like a loud sewing machine now. I thin kthat issue is resolved. BUT the car smokes like a chimney (gray/bluish smoke) constantly. Also have a large amount of black condensation and/or un-burnt gas dripping from the tail pipe. I ulled the plugs `to see their condition. The plugs are burning well except the #4 plug is wet and after pulling that plug it smoked out of that cylinder for a good 10 minutes. Never seen anything like that before. The Turbo seems to be smoking badly. I pulled out my O2 sensor while the car was running and it smoked through the hole. I am pretty certain the turbo is gone but everyone keeps telling me NO. I am going to the Mitsubishi dealer today to order the PCV valve($9.02). It will come from Texas tomorrow. Tonight I will borrow my friends Compression tester and get the verdict from #4. If I test good compression then I will troubleshoot from there. Personally, from what I have read of bad oil seals, I still think it refers to a bad rear seal, BUT to humor all the theories here I will replace the PCV Valve with a OEM and see. The funny thing was, the first time I started the car once I got home, it didn't smoke at all, then after about 5 minutes of running it started smoking like a chimney again. Don't know what that means... Edited April 25, 2008 by jwrape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I thiought Shelby was talking about when you had the plug out and was cranking it over/firing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I thiought Shelby was talking about when you had the plug out and was cranking it over/firing it I don't know, i didn't read it like that,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Excess unburnt fuel = medium to dark grey smoke. Just look as most of your very high HP cars at the track when they take off, the cloud behind them will be this color. It could just be your dead cylinder. If it were, it woudl smoke out the O2 sensor hole too as the unburnt fuell will coat the eintire exhaust system with raw fuel. If you pass your compression test, use an ohm meter on the plug leads, the resistance will be higher on #4 due to it's longer lenght, but it shoudl be in a simlar range, most wires are about 2000 ohms per foot. Whatever it is, it should be similar to the other 3. get some new plugs too, no reason to troubleshoot with a fouled plug, for the price it's worth it. If they do pass inspection, spark test the plug with help, or rig up a test lead on the starter, it's just alead from the starter lug to the pos on the battery. be sure to disconnect the injector leads so you don't flood it while checking. did you clean out those little pin holes on the rockers arms as suggested? if not, the tick can come back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Excess unburnt fuel = medium to dark grey smoke. Just look as most of your very high HP cars at the track when they take off, the cloud behind them will be this color. It could just be your dead cylinder. If it were, it woudl smoke out the O2 sensor hole too as the unburnt fuell will coat the eintire exhaust system with raw fuel. If you pass your compression test, use an ohm meter on the plug leads, the resistance will be higher on #4 due to it's longer lenght, but it shoudl be in a simlar range, most wires are about 2000 ohms per foot. Whatever it is, it should be similar to the other 3. get some new plugs too, no reason to troubleshoot with a fouled plug, for the price it's worth it. If they do pass inspection, spark test the plug with help, or rig up a test lead on the starter, it's just alead from the starter lug to the pos on the battery. be sure to disconnect the injector leads so you don't flood it while checking. did you clean out those little pin holes on the rockers arms as suggested? if not, the tick can come back... Yes, the pin holes are cleaned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 wow ... i feel your pain jw ... I think i would cry if my new engine did that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwrape Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 wow ... i feel your pain jw ... I think i would cry if my new engine did that Believe me, I was holding it together on the outside, but ready to tthrow something on the inside. :character0292: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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