Dispelling Myths about the G54B Bottom End!!!

[MontyTSI]

question about the VE of the engine.... isnt this directly related to the static compression ratio. So the lower compression turbo motor wouldnt equal the VE of a comparible N/A motor until the boost equals(dynamic compression) equals that of the N/A motor.

 

Once thats met your dealing with different flow patterns of highly compresses (more dense) air thats traveling in the same space designed for optimum flow under vacuum (less dense)

 

This is my laymans understanding... any clarification would be appreciated

[Lidoidol]

VE = actual intake volume/Engine displacement

 

Volumetric Flow rate at 100%

 

VFR100 = (Displacement x RPM)/3456

 

Actual VFR

 

VFR = (VFR100) x (VE)

 

Then you have to calculate density ratios by temperature and ambient pressure to get a more precise figure.

 

This actually is not exactly what I was talking about though. I was referring to the VE of the cylinder head itself

 

Basically if you have an intake runner with 2" ports and a volume of 10 cubic inches and flow test it, then compare the result to that of flowing a piece of 2" straight pipe with a volume of 10 cubic inches, you find the efficiency of that runner design in the difference. This is with the valve removed.

 

Basically you are figuring what a runner with a specific volume should flow at 100% efficiency

[xtremeboost]

hummm

[eeaston]

I have a buddy in north florida thats going to cut apart a couple diff casting heads to see which he can raise the ports the most on... we are working in mm's and smaller. Porting these heads, while sure to improve performance (read: flow) to a point, is no comparison to the gains that could be made by raising the port floor and roof equally thus decreasing turbulence.

 

I actually raised the intake ports of my head by 3-4mm. I didn't do any flow testing, so I can't empirically validate the theory, but FWIW the engine does pull significantly harder. It's commonly acknowleged that a large short-side radius with a straight section just before the valve is crucial. If you've ever looked at a G54 head you know that there IS no radius, and only the length of the valve seat is straight.

[cheaterparts]

I actually raised the intake ports of my head by 3-4mm. I didn't do any flow testing, so I can't empirically validate the theory, but FWIW the engine does pull significantly harder. It's commonly acknowleged that a large short-side radius with a straight section just before the valve is crucial. If you've ever looked at a G54 head you know that there IS no radius, and only the length of the valve seat is straight.

 

that is why the M6 - M7 magna head from Aust works well it has a larger inner rad ( short side ) with about 1/2 " of straightish port before the valve seat inner side

and by the way they also respond to cleaning up the vave guide lump in the top of the port

 

cheater

[Lidoidol]

yeah I cant wait to see what we can get these things to flow...I've been catching some slack from other guys saying I dont need to put this much work into it to get the numbers I'm looking for BUT.....

 

 

I want this motor to be as efficient as possible. The more efficient a motor is the less you have to push it to get the hp. Anyone can cram a bunch of air and fuel and make power but I want to do it reliably and safe

[xtremeboost]

yeah I cant wait to see what we can get these things to flow...I've been catching some slack from other guys saying I dont need to put this much work into it to get the numbers I'm looking for BUT.....

 

 

I want this motor to be as efficient as possible. The more efficient a motor is the less you have to push it to get the hp. Anyone can cram a bunch of air and fuel and make power but I want to do it reliably and safe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

reliably and safe being the key words .. 8)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best Regards

Frank

[JustBreathe]

He whos has no sin can throw the first stone! If you ask me for all this work you guys are talking about just change the engine. Anything from a small block 305 to an RB26DETT, 2JZ, or even a VQDETT. Saves a lot of monkey, more bang for the buck and better longevity. Just a thought.

[MontyTSI]

/ 7 posts and already boring me

[propeine]

While Just Breathe's aproach is where I'm at right now I by no means advocate it. I just happened upon the right deals or else I would have been building a g54B. Just how many engine swaps have you done justbreathe? I'm on my third v8 swap in different vehicles each time and its more of a pain in the a** than you would think.

[Boosted_One]

He whos has no sin can throw the first stone! If you ask me for all this work you guys are talking about just change the engine. Anything from a small block 305 to an RB26DETT, 2JZ, or even a VQDETT. Saves a lot of monkey, more bang for the buck and better longevity. Just a thought.

 

 

From an outside look in your right.

 

People build these motor for a challenge, a goal, and they do make decent power done correctly.

 

I can't say your wrong exactly. It's just peoples choices really. Pick your motor and see what you can do with it.

[lionbull]

Guys guys guys. There is nothing wrong with the motor. Stop the nonsense. questsi, 88whitestarion,eipquest did it and bunch more to come myself included. REASARCH COSTS NOTHING. So lets do some before we blow a motor we just spent a ton on. Furthermore it seems that alot of you here on the board have almost given up and its all about "just get engine an swap" because there is more support. Cool whatever floats your boat but the G54B just needs some more time for guys to get it right . We just begun to crack the 300 and 400 hp mark for crying out loud, when every other car that came with multiport did it the 1st and 2nd year they came out. Just think of this car as a whole new car when you upgrade to MPI. If we had that luxury back then we would be in the 600hp range. Just give it time fellas. Y'all should really holla at Frank or the above mentioned for advice.

[Truth]

Guys guys guys. There is nothing wrong with the motor. Stop the nonsense. questsi, 88whitestarion,eipquest did it and bunch more to come myself included. REASARCH COSTS NOTHING. So lets do some before we blow a motor we just spent a ton on. Furthermore it seems that alot of you here on the board have almost given up and its all about "just get engine an swap" because there is more support. Cool whatever floats your boat but the G54B just needs some more time for guys to get it right . We just begun to crack the 300 and 400 hp mark for crying out loud, when every other car that came with multiport did it the 1st and 2nd year they came out. Just think of this car as a whole new car when you upgrade to MPI. If we had that luxury back then we would be in the 600hp range. Just give it time fellas. Y'all should really holla at Frank or the above mentioned for advice.

 

+10000000

 

if we had the sponsorship and the aftermarket support that every other car had, we'd be way far ahead. i'm perfectly content not driving a cookie-cutter car that you can buy parts from wal-mart for it.

[tigertron]

Guys guys guys. There is nothing wrong with the motor. Stop the nonsense. questsi, 88whitestarion,eipquest did it and bunch more to come myself included. REASARCH COSTS NOTHING. So lets do some before we blow a motor we just spent a ton on. Furthermore it seems that alot of you here on the board have almost given up and its all about "just get engine an swap" because there is more support. Cool whatever floats your boat but the G54B just needs some more time for guys to get it right . We just begun to crack the 300 and 400 hp mark for crying out loud, when every other car that came with multiport did it the 1st and 2nd year they came out. Just think of this car as a whole new car when you upgrade to MPI. If we had that luxury back then we would be in the 600hp range. Just give it time fellas. Y'all should really holla at Frank or the above mentioned for advice.

 

+10000000

 

if we had the sponsorship and the aftermarket support that every other car had, we'd be way far ahead. i'm perfectly content not driving a cookie-cutter car that you can buy parts from wal-mart for it.

 

+300000

We are actually making very good progress. Alot of us are part time engineeers as opposed to hks or some body like that. In the past year we have made leaps and bounds. Just wait till the end of this year. People are going to respect this car again. YuP and guess who gets all the credit? US not hkless. Who would have thought hacking a magna would help us get 500hp NOT HKLESS. wE ARE A GREAT BUNCH OF GUYS WHO DECIDED TO BRING THIS CAR BACK FROM PERFORMANCE OBLIVION AND WE WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY FOR IT. sOME OF YOU WERE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO READ THAT tURBO MAG ISSUE ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO THAT HAD OUR CAR AS THE #1 CAR YOU WILL BE WASTING YOUR TIME WITH . tHEY ACTUALLY HAD US MIXED UP WITH THE LIKES OF THAT P.O.S V6 CAMARO/FIERBIRD.

 

SORRY for the caps my keyboard does not face my monitor so i did not know until now.

[Boosted_One]

I don't think anyone said there was anything wrong with a 4g54 motor.

 

It's just a look away from being "brand loyal" and maximizing a setup that has more potential... more bang for your buck. I can see that point... that thought goes thru many a car guys mind.

 

For example: dollar for dollar, sure a 4G63 would have a good edge on a 4g54 but that doesn't mean the 4g54 doesn't have the potential to do it well too.

 

It works out both ways if you think about it. Pick your weapon ya know...

[tigertron]

I don't think anyone said there was anything wrong with a 4g54 motor.

 

It's just a look away from being "brand loyal" and maximizing a setup that has more potential... more bang for your buck. I can see that point... that thought goes thru many a car guys mind.

 

For example: dollar for dollar, sure a 4G63 would have a good edge on a 4g54 but that doesn't mean the 4g54 doesn't have the potential to do it well too.

 

It works out both ways if you think about it. Pick your weapon ya know...

 

O.K nobody probably said there was something wrong with the motor in this thread. Cool, so why are guys destroking, why are guys complaining about undersquare this and that, why are guys thinking about swaping. why are guy still dreaming about DOHC head? What does that tell you? It tell me some...no, no most dont like a challege.

[Boosted_One]

I don't think anyone said there was anything wrong with a 4g54 motor.

 

It's just a look away from being "brand loyal" and maximizing a setup that has more potential... more bang for your buck. I can see that point... that thought goes thru many a car guys mind.

 

For example: dollar for dollar, sure a 4G63 would have a good edge on a 4g54 but that doesn't mean the 4g54 doesn't have the potential to do it well too.

 

It works out both ways if you think about it. Pick your weapon ya know...

 

O.K nobody probably said there was something wrong with the motor in this thread. Cool, so why are guys destroking, why are guys complaining about undersquare this and that, why are guys thinking about swaping. why are guy still dreaming about DOHC head? What does that tell you? It tell me some...no, no most dont like a challege.

 

Part of that is just going beyond what was already "given" to a car guy.... changing things is just part of "it" ...why do Chevy guys make 400's or 383's out of 350's that are already great motors?? Why don't guys leave their 350 in instead of that big block??

 

Moding and chosing your powerplant really is a personal thing. No direction is right or wrong...it's all up to the individual on what they want...and of course it's their money too.

[hopefull noob]

it's their money too.

big reason why mine is only half running. I am a noob and in college, a double wammy.

[Technology]

Well, I'm not a n00b, but I am in college now and have almost all the parts for my MPI swaperoo. HyperU pistons .030 over and stock bottom end, pretty much. I'm sure I'll poke 400 hp. If I don't I'll set it on fire.

[hopefull noob]

id love to not be a noob, but time is a minor problem, along with not having anywhere to learn.

[CarlosFley]

Don't want to be grave digger but I just love these kind of threads. Like of the members on here said "My eyes have now been opened and I can see the light" Thank you to everyone who contributes to make this forum and our StarQuests better every day.

[starquestJOE]

Its all about the numbers. ........

[mbruneaux]

Great thread and hope for those who don't want to swap out motors.

[lionbull]

Guys guys guys. There is nothing wrong with the motor. Stop the nonsense. questsi, 88whitestarion,eipquest did it and bunch more to come myself included. REASARCH COSTS NOTHING. So lets do some before we blow a motor we just spent a ton on. Furthermore it seems that alot of you here on the board have almost given up and its all about "just get engine an swap" because there is more support. Cool whatever floats your boat but the G54B just needs some more time for guys to get it right . We just begun to crack the 300 and 400 hp mark for crying out loud, when every other car that came with multiport did it the 1st and 2nd year they came out. Just think of this car as a whole new car when you upgrade to MPI. If we had that luxury back then we would be in the 600hp range.

 

just want to echo what i said almost 8 years ago.

talk about commitment

[Funky Phil]

Did you just give yourself an E pat on the back?