T-56 speed conversion kit to be made

[Chad]

as for the LT-1/LT-4 automatic compatibility, it should work on the block, but the starter is going to be in the stock location so you need to use the stock flex plate with a GM unit mounted to it.  At that point you have to do some of your own fabrication.  The drivelines, I think they may actualy be the same, but I can't say for sure and don't want to make any promices on that one.  The pinion adapter, that will work on any setup, so in my kit the only difference will be you won't need a clutch assembly, or the flywheel shim, and the trans crossmsmber will need to be custom at your end.

 

If someone wants to try it out, I'd make them a deal on the adapter plate.

[Chad]

Esi-R;  

 

The clutch GP's and driveline GP's will be handles seperately, and pricing will probably be not nuch difference since we are looking at small quantities anyway.  I will ask my driveline vendor about pricing after we have passed the 5 unit mark, they may give me good pricing after we have established a relationship.  Same for the clutches, I will have to do some research about pricing after the first GP.

[Dan]

I'm in.

 

Your post in the BS Forum convinced me that this is a step in the right direction for any high hp/torque SQ! Longevity and reliability are key!

 

http://www.starquestclub.com/index.pl?boar...;num=1100538564

[Chad]

Smog has generously donated server space for my pics, they load faster and easier now  ;D

[jr_ss]

Chad what about the speed-o hook up? It was asked earlier but never answered. Let us know, I'm in either way. I'm going to need this in the future, and I agree that the T-56 will be around alot longer than our trannies. They put up a fight, but now it's time to move on to bigger and better things, like 6spd trannies....

[heefner]

Do you have one functional in the car or are you going on the basis that it physically fits therefore it "should" work?  If you waited this long why not wait an extra month or 2 to have it complete and running before posting?    

[jr_ss]

Chad you have me in there twice...

[DJpowerHaus]

How about a 4G63 adapter plate?  Only the bolt pattern would have to be different... smaller.  All other parts of the swap would be the same.  I could sell 5 within the hour if I saw proof of a car actually driving/racing with it (2.6 or 2.0).  

 

There is ALOT of demand AND money from the DSM crowd considering the StarQuest platform/4g63 swap and the growing popularity of drifting in the US.  Seriously consider this as an option.  It WILL sell.

 

Plus for those serious about power there are dog box kits for relatively cheap (if you've ever looked into Xtrac transmissions you'll know what I mean by this being relatively cheap). http://www.g-forcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-56.asp

[Chad]

Heefner, if it fits, how would it not work?   When you install a different transmission, what exaclty does it take?  A transmission that fits, and a few adapters, that's it.  MPI is far more difficult and look at how many have done it, myself included.

 

There are only few varibles here, the big one is "does it fit"  to that I answer YES (look at the pictures).  the others are "how aobut the driveline?"  well with ~5000 driveline shops across the US, I think ONE will make it work since I am making an adapter to use standard GM parts.  Besides, I already have a vendor online for that.   "what about the clutch?"  Well I got that covered too.  lastly, what about the speedo?  well the LT-1 comes stock with an electronic output, and there are dozzens of aftermaket companies that make "universal" electronic speedos, which one do you want to use?  I'm going to use the autometer procomp one myself.  I am currently researching the mechanical speedo option, it is used on the mustang versions.

 

I'm getting this out to the masses now to see if I should make a single large run on parts rather than spend big $$ on R&D, only to find there is no interest.  That would be stupid.  If I were doing this just for my self, I would design it totaly different, were cost would not be the paramount design feature.  Example, if I were dong this for myself, I'd get a $1300 custom one-off flywheel, not use an adapter.

 

Is this just "sour grapes" because you have a supra trans?  

 

Sure would have been nice to know this kit was in the works.  >

 

 

Why try to bust this down so early?  I haven't taken a dime from anyone...  I just need to see if it is worth sharing my research, and passing on the rewards of my hard work.  If you want to do some good here, make a GP on your supra kits, we all know that works.

[Chad]

DJpowerhouse, do you mean a 4G63 in a quest, or in a DSM chassis?  

 

If in a quest, that would probably be whihin the realm of possibility.  the motor sits a little different and thus the trans corss member and driveline will need to be different dimensions, and the clutch pattern would have to be the same as the starquest, or else that too would have to be changed.

 

I would have to get a running 4G63 in a quest body to design it all out to be certain, and that I do not have, and no one arround here has one that I know of.  It would be the ultimate combo...

[DJpowerHaus]

I mean in any RWD chassis, but specifically the starquest chassis.  I get IMs from new people daily asking for help with their swap.

 

"the motor sits a little different and thus the trans corss member and driveline will need to be different dimensions"

This is not true.  The swap can be done with stock mounting locations.  I moved the motor forward only becuase adapter plates could be made in 5 min and a custom driveshaft was also easy to make.  It is no longer the way to do the swap.  Anyone serious enough to put a T56 in a car will be able to make the modifications to either the firewall, the water pipe or CAS sensor... and the'll most likely be using a standalone computer which would eliminate the CAS entirely.

 

The 1G 6 bolt DSM (what 90% of people swap due to its strength and simplicity) is a 6 bolt.  You can (and I have) bolt the Starion flywheel to it with no modifications.  It too will not change for this kit.

http://www.beatingyou.com/zerog/images/Starion-D50comparison4.jpg

<<Starion  |  4G63>>

 

The only difference with the entire kit will be the adapter plate and that will only be by a few millimeters different:

http://www.beatingyou.com/zerog/images/Starion-D50comparison3.jpg  I have a full racecar on this coast being built at the moment which would love this transmission.

[Chad]

The flywheel could stay the same, 4G63, if the clutch pattern itself is the same as G54B, are they different?  Do you feel the stock G54B flywheel fits well on the 4g63?, ie: centers well on the crank and is stable?

 

I suppose that's an easy design change to run this shim on the 4G63 flywheel, it's just moving 6 holes to mate to your your 4G63 flywheel.  

 

To do this kit, I'd need a 4G63, block/flywheel/block plate (like in your pictutures) so I can check runout of the T56 relitive to the 4G63 crank/flywheel.  What gen. are we talking about so I can track one down localy (years/models/numbers)?  Preferably a NA model so I can get one cheaply.  If it needs to be a turbo one, I may be able to find a cheap blown one.

[DJpowerHaus]

Unless the motors are balanced on the flywheel (dont believe they are) then there is no instability with the Starion flywheel on the 6 bolt 4G63 bottom end.  They even have use the same size pin.

 

I'm not quite clear on how the clutch shim will work.  Not to sound stupid, but could you draw me a picture of the whole setup?  What bolts to what?

 

How can I help with this?  I have a 6bolt 4G63 in my garage, minus a flywheel, but in about 6 hours I can show pictures of a 4G63 with a Starion flywheel.  I also have a Starion chassis waiting for a motor.  I'd love to help any way I can.  I understand we're on opposite coasts, but email is fast.

 

We're talking about 90-93 2.0 Turbo DSMs (Eclipse, Talon, Laser).  The blocks and bolt patterns are the same turbo or non turbo, auto or manual.  As long as its a 6 bolt.  The flywheels vary between 4WD and FWD models.  I'd like to just use a Starion flywheel, unless it is simple to use the DSM flywheel instead.. FWD is lighter BTW.  They clutches are different as well.  

 

Which starter is being used?

[Chad]

I will PM you for more details so we don't clutter this thread...

[88whitestarion]

Chad,

 

Please clutter this thread. Your swap sounds great. My congratulations to you for taking on a much needed project.

 

I am, however, also trying to understand(visualize) your flywheel shim setup. A little more detail with regard to the shim would be appreciated.

 

Is the "shim" a face plate that bolts to the stock flywheel with a face that would accomodate the gm pressure plate? As far the larger input shaft goes, a stock size disc could be made to fit the larger diameter of the input shaft. However that doesn't solve the problem if the input shaft is not long enough to reach the pilot bearing. Unless there is a shorter bell housing available. Not to mention a larger diameter clutch would hold better.

 

This is a project I was going to attempt myself until I saw the GP. I may be a little late to offer help since it sounds like you are almost finished, but if there is anyway I could assist, let me know.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Chad]

On thie shim, imagine a big washer shape, it is ~13" OD, and ~8" ID, and 3/4" thick.   It is made of aluminum, and has a fidanza steel incert milled flush into the clutch side.  This shim attaches to the stock clutch holes (225/240 MM pattern) with recessed head bolts that sit under the fidanza incert.  You will mount the shim with no incert first, then install the incert which will cover the bolts holding it to the stock flywheel.  When you are done, you only see the fidanza screws, and the GM clutch pattern.

 

the shim is needed both for the clutch change, and also to get the cluth fork to engege the clutch propperly.  The stock clutch assembly would not work on an LT-1, the LT-1 is a "pull" type clutch.  You could get away with it using an LS-1 assembly which is a push type using a stock clutch/flywheel, but I can't do the research to make it work without a complete LS-1 assembly, which I do not have.  I still think you would need a TOB shim to get it to engage the clutch/disk in the corect position, and a GM splined stock disk, this all starts to add up quickly, to the point you may as well go all GM, and get the bigger/cheaper GM parts.

[heefner]

2 question about the shim.  Will there be access to the back of the shim.  I don’t know how the GM insert will bolt to the shim but on the mitsu Fidanza flywheel you need access to the back to hold a small 7m nut in order to torque them to 7 incn/lbs.

[Chad]

Question 1 : no

 

Question 2 : the shim will be fully threaded the 3/4" thickness of the shim/incert, and 3/4" long grade 10 screws will be provided along with high temp lock tight to bolt/torque down the incert.

[Quest340]

It's been awhile since I've been in this section. Great job!! I was hopping someone would engineer a TH350 or 700R4 conversion but this is one step closer. T56 is a pricey swap though. If anyone has any doubts about this tranny let them stop here. An aquantance of mine has one behind a blown 392 hemi in a 32 Ford roadster with about 20 inch wide rear tires. AWESOME.. drive down the freeway as fast as you would ever possibly want to go with the engine just purring along. I think the auto swap would be much better for anyone interested in consistant ET's drag racing but I don't think it would compare to the fun factor of the T56 swap. I would like to have a chance to look at or maybe purchase an adapter plate to see if I could make it work for an auto swap. Keep up the good work.

[smog]

Hey chad, I have a 4g63 on a stand right now, getting read to drop it in to my truck this weekend. Let me know if you need to measure anything on it. Maybe I can stuff it in my truck and get it down to you.

 

I pm'ed you about diong a mod to the 4g63 intake also.

[Chad]

OK, time to make a decision about when to make this happen...

 

Of the TWO choices, which would you prefer?

 

Start production in mid December and have ready fo shipment at the end of the year?

 

Start production late January and have ready for shipment early February?

 

I've been wanting to make this happen ASAP, but the family budget it streached pretty tight with the comming holidays and the investment I have already put into this.

[xtremeboost]

guys , we need to get in on this right now so we can get it done !!  I was looking into getting this done and its not only expensive but it does take time to get everything right and Chad has gone ahead and done this for us . If I have to I can but up more cash and buy a few more than I need so we can go ahead and it done . I don't know about you guys but  I needed this two months ago.......................

Lets get the  BS out the way and those that are serious lets figure this out A.S.A.P .

[smog]

I vote late january

 

I:m going to be tight on money right now, and in dec since next quarter of school starts. I can do it if I have to in late dec, but late jan would be much easier for me.

[Felginator]

Either time is good for me, I can put down the 200 right now if you need.

[jr_ss]

Late Jan. would be better for me. Finalizing my MPI project, and holidays are right around the corner. Put me down for option 2, but I'm in either way.... If I have to I can put down my 200 whenever, and then make installment payments until it is paid off. That way I can still get in on it and not have to pay the full price later on, if you allow that. If you don't trust me, talk to Artinist or Oscar the Grouch, they'll vouch for me.

 

Thanks again Chad, Glenn.