2618-4032- Hypereutec, Cast. A piston discussion

[Mike7447]

I know.

I know this is a “been there done that” topic for some of you guys that have been here since the dawn of this web site.

But from an outsiders perspective, try to find useful information regarding the options available versus the intended usage of the engine, versus what others are actually experiencing in the real world.

For instance, a 2jz has cast pistons. It is routinely stated that these engines will tolerate 600-700 hp tunes w/o even cracking a 60k mile engine open. I had one. Although I did completely open the engine over block deck surface concerns, it got put back together using the same stock internals that came out of it.

it made 617hp/597tq at 23 psi.

I don’t need, or want that kinda power in this project. I consider 620 hp in a non traction controlled street car “bragging rights”. Thd only thing that made this car safe on the street was a set of 315 drag radials.

So I gotta consider the new bottom line with the current engine in the CQ. Let’s say I target 300whp with an auto. 
You can buy stock crap cast pistons with rings at around 125.00. They are immediately available and can be here w/i a week of order.

Silvolite makes a Hypereutectec piston for about double that. Equally quick turn time at about double the price. Potentially stronger than the cast piston due to the higher silicon content in the aluminum, but still a potential weak link if you don’t get the tune right.

Arias and Wiseco are the only forged piston mfgs out there building a piston for the engine. Only for about 8 times the cost of the stock piston, w/a 6-8 week turn time on an order placed today. These pistons are 2618 alloy, typically noisy, w/looser cylinder wall clearances, due to thermal expansion, but ultimately the most forgiving alloy when pushing the tube into higher power goals due to the properties of that alloy.

Where are the cut lines then? Who’s running what power on the stock cast piston. Who if any has any experience with what appears to be the only hyper-e piston out there, and at what power level do I need to justify spending 800.00 plus rings on a true forged piston?

* And nobody even makes a 4032 piston for these engines I’ve found.

Edited June 11 by Mike7447

[BKB94]

I love hyper pistons with a competent machine shop that hones it properly with a deck plate. You can have any piston made any way you want it, cost used to be negligible over off the shelf pistons. As always forged pistons give you head room for poor tuning, high EGTs, detonation.  But honestly with all the OEMs using hyper pistons with direct injected turbo engines I have never seen an engine failure do to the piston failing, even with massive HP tunes. I would pick a light hyper piston that uses a modern ring package but not low tension. You could go gapless rings but I still have oil consumption issues with the gapless second ring. My leak down is almost un measurable but I have yet to get the PVC dialed in to where under deceleration I’m not pulling oil into the manifold. Might be a roots blower specific issue. 

[Dad]

Wiseco pistons  run about .003 clearance now  so  noise is no longer a factor.  the turn around is the issue.  I'm slowly getting them in stock ( have 020 at moment)   I ran hyper pistons in my car from 2007-2019  slowly adding mods.  16g wheel, Trilogy injetors, walbro pump, GM  maft translator  eventually running 22 lbs of boost.   When I tore it back apart  I fount cracked piston ring lands in #3 cylinder,  head cracked same cylinder between valves    but did not leak coolant.    Head gasket was perfect ( ran stock head bolts)   Since then I have wiseco pistons, arp studs  etc.     The hyper pistons IMHO are fine for a stock build  but if adding mods to increase HP  they will eventually fail  at least in these cars. 

 

Dad

[Mike7447]

2 hours ago, Dad said:

Wiseco pistons  run about .003 clearance now  so  noise is no longer a factor.  the turn around is the issue.  I'm slowly getting them in stock ( have 020 at moment)   I ran hyper pistons in my car from 2007-2019  slowly adding mods.  16g wheel, Trilogy injetors, walbro pump, GM  maft translator  eventually running 22 lbs of boost.   When I tore it back apart  I fount cracked piston ring lands in #3 cylinder,  head cracked same cylinder between valves    but did not leak coolant.    Head gasket was perfect ( ran stock head bolts)   Since then I have wiseco pistons, arp studs  etc.     The hyper pistons IMHO are fine for a stock build  but if adding mods to increase HP  they will eventually fail  at least in these cars. 

 

Dad

Are you saying that you have a set of .020 in stock? Pm me with your price. If the block will clean up at .020, and depending on if I can afford them, I’ll take them.

[Dad]

I do,    Finish bore should be 3.607 ( that should help your machinist)
Pistons

Dad

[Mike7447]

5 hours ago, Dad said:

I do,    Finish bore should be 3.607 ( that should help your machinist)
Pistons

Dad

Thanks Dad. ( Kinda weird referring to you as Dad when you’re younger than me.🤔).

Nonetheless, I have those pistons and a bunch of other stuff in a cart waiting on the machine shop. Should know something today.

[psu_Crash]

I have never played with the cast or hyper pistons and consider it cheap insurance to just run wiseco or some other forged. JE used to have pistons readily available too. 

Randy (Dad) is your guy for engine parts and knowledge. 

[Mike7447]

Pistons, rings, bearings, rod bolts, and the gaskets are all on the way from Dad. The new head is here, the washer inserts are here, everything is getting ready to happen.

[psu_Crash]

6 hours ago, Mike7447 said:

Pistons, rings, bearings, rod bolts, and the gaskets are all on the way from Dad. The new head is here, the washer inserts are here, everything is getting ready to happen.

This all progressed quickly! Sounds like we might see dyno curves soon. How is the wife taking it? 

[Mike7447]

Shhhhh!!!🤫

She doesn’t even know the engines’ out. 
 

I suspect she’ll know that the cat is out of the bag when she catches me in the driveway with a swinging engine.🤕

I just put the Corvette project on marketplace for an absolutely bloody loss. If I can sell that thing, it’ll completely pay off the Starion, ( I’m not calling it a conquest, we all know Chrysler had nothing to do with this car)…Then the steel car will go where the fiberglass one was, and she’ll never know what kind of mad scientist in a secret laboratory junk I’m involved with…😈

 

 

 

[psu_Crash]

14 hours ago, Mike7447 said:

Shhhhh!!!🤫

She doesn’t even know the engines’ out. 

I suspect she’ll know that the cat is out of the bag when she catches me in the driveway with a swinging engine.🤕

I just put the Corvette project on marketplace for an absolutely bloody loss. If I can sell that thing, it’ll completely pay off the Starion, ( I’m not calling it a conquest, we all know Chrysler had nothing to do with this car)…Then the steel car will go where the fiberglass one was, and she’ll never know what kind of mad scientist in a secret laboratory junk I’m involved with…😈

 

 

 

🤣

Easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission! I mean, at that point it's already almost done. 

I also agree. They are all Starions. Some just have a different badge (and tail lights). 

[tux]

And color front grille plastics

Edited June 18 by tux