QuestFan Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) I bought the treadstone manifold and am currently enjoying it. Except ever since I installed it the bottom manifold mounting studs keep snapping flush with the outside of the manifold "flange". Its only the bottom studs. IMO, the treadstone lacks in design mounting wise. The far right lower stud closest to the radiator is just too close to the runner, you cant get the stock washer to "seat" on the flange properly. The washer sits crooked because of the runner next to it, putting an awkward tension on the nut and stud. And the flange itself has a rough texture, not good for mounting. I saw starwolf's treadstone and noticed all his washers look like they seat good on the flange with no problems, and I have not heard any one report this problem besides me. My solution would be to grind away some of the material on the necessary runner(s) and smooth out the material where the washers seat on the flange. Any input is appreciated. If I am doing something wrong, please let me know in a nice way. Edited November 5, 2011 by QuestFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Quest Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 I'M SO SICK OF YOU RUINING THE NAME OF EVERY MANIFOLD THAT IS MADE FOR OUR CARS. I was just getting this outa the way so no one else needs to say anything. Even though nothing actually is wrong just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierquest Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Couldent you just grind a flat edge on the washer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dred_85.5_TSI Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 probably just a casting imperfection, take it off and fix it.mine has not done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestFan Posted November 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 IM SO SICK OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU. If you are going to pay that much money for something it better be perfect. Anyway, casting imperfection is what I figured. I will just get the dremel out or take it to the shop to have them machine the mounting points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHO Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 I'M SO SICK OF YOU RUINING THE NAME OF EVERY MANIFOLD THAT IS MADE FOR OUR CARS. I was just getting this outa the way so no one else needs to say anything. Even though nothing actually is wrong just sayin. Why are you even speaking......SMB was a different issue and everyone had problems....He didn't say Treadstrone is garbage...he is talking about a specific problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) IM SO SICK OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU. If you are going to pay that much money for something it better be perfect. The word "Perfection" and the word "Modification" are not synonymous Bill Edited November 5, 2011 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_99 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Jerome, Ignore the bs comments and just do like Hoosier suggested and grind the edge of the flat washer until it seats flat against the manifold flange, it will hold fine. If you continue break studs you may consider spending some extra $ and get the stud kits in stainless steel. I bought 2 kits for a 1g talon/eclipse.The studs are the same sizes and thread pitches as ours. They came with studs, flat and lock washers, 2 kits was enough for the intake and exhaust manifolds. http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt93/BC_99/fiji/bW1jMS9EQ0lNL0NBTUVSQS9TU1BYMDAwNi5qcGc.jpg BC_99 Edited November 6, 2011 by BC_99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestFan Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Earlier I pulled the manifold off, got the dremel out, and removed small portion of metal from the runner causing the most problem, then I smoothed out the nut seating/mounting surface(s) and buttoned it all back up. Ran it pretty good tonight at the local hang out and no problems thus far. I've got brand new studs, nuts, and washers on the way from DAD. If I still have problems, I will upgrade to ARP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestFan Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Other than this minor issue, I frickin love the treadstone. Turbo spools great, it looks good, its tried and true, and best of all, NO CRACKING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_99 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 save up a lil $ and get it ceramic coated inside and out and it should last you a very long time. BC_99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestFan Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 save up a lil $ and get it ceramic coated inside and out and it should last you a very long time. BC_99 Too late for a coating on the inside. Carbon is already embeded into the material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_99 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) Thats why you soak it in a mild muriatic acid solution for a few minutes before you send it out to be coated BC_99 Edited November 6, 2011 by BC_99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Quest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Quest Fan knows I was jokeing everyone chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestFan Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well eff me sideways, one of em already snapped again.... This is getting rediculous. I am pulling this manifold off like every other day throwing studs and nuts at it... Wonder if its too late to cancel my order with dad and get some ARP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 The word "Perfection" and the word "Modification" are not synonymous Bill This is so true in many cases. There is a flange problem that has not been addressed.1. Be sure to get the head flange resurfaced to be true and flat. This is more of a belt sand item, but that does the job.2. If it is possible, separate the ports on the flange. Not sure if you can do that with a Treadstone, but if the flange is one piece across the head, it will put more stress on one end. Usually the rear on the stock mani, but could be either end.3. It is a must to support the manifold and turbo assembly with a bracket that goes from the outermost point, to the block somewhere, usually the motor mount. This is even more important with a manifold that hangs everything out further such as the Treadstone. Otherwise, all of the clamping and weight bearing force is on the head studs in the aluminum bosses that also get abused. I would bet that your bosses are in need of repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestFan Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 This is so true in many cases. There is a flange problem that has not been addressed.1. Be sure to get the head flange resurfaced to be true and flat. This is more of a belt sand item, but that does the job.2. If it is possible, separate the ports on the flange. Not sure if you can do that with a Treadstone, but if the flange is one piece across the head, it will put more stress on one end. Usually the rear on the stock mani, but could be either end.3. It is a must to support the manifold and turbo assembly with a bracket that goes from the outermost point, to the block somewhere, usually the motor mount. This is even more important with a manifold that hangs everything out further such as the Treadstone. Otherwise, all of the clamping and weight bearing force is on the head studs in the aluminum bosses that also get abused. I would bet that your bosses are in need of repair. Already repaired the "bosses" as you call them. I had timeserts put in and absolutly love it. No more screwing with dissimilar metals. I hate aluminum some times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestFan Posted November 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Also, I was already thinking of putting some kind of support bracket in but I have no Idea where I would secure it to the manifold. I would probably have to get a bolt or something welded on the bottom of it. Also, when I pull the head, I am going to take the head and manifold to Percision Tool here locally and have them check for trueness and fix it if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Already repaired the "bosses" as you call them. I had timeserts put in and absolutly love it. No more screwing with dissimilar metals. I hate aluminum some times.Wow! Even better. I did the home install of helicoils on all stud bosses on one of my heads and have had no more problems with them, but the serts are much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Also, I was already thinking of putting some kind of support bracket in but I have no Idea where I would secure it to the manifold. I would probably have to get a bolt or something welded on the bottom of it. Also, when I pull the head, I am going to take the head and manifold to Percision Tool here locally and have them check for trueness and fix it if need be.Yeah, its a tough call if there isn't a place for a stud on the manifold somewhere. It would be even better if someone came up with a triangulated web that also bolts to the frame with one end on the motor mount. Then come straight up to the manifold with a spreader device to adjust it for supporting the weight. Like a small block chevy exhaust manifold spreader tool. Then we could mount as much weight there as we want without pulling on the head studs. Problem is that it would need to be a solid steel motor mount or a very well engineered piece that could incorporate a rubber pad on the support bracket too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well eff me sideways, one of em already snapped again.... This is getting rediculous. I am pulling this manifold off like every other day throwing studs and nuts at it... Wonder if its too late to cancel my order with dad and get some ARP's. I think the echeck has not cleared, so.. Send me an email if you are want to cancel the order. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Eh, I used regular old studs and my treadstone didn't break studs except for one instance where the nut backed off, and contacted the manifold, then heat and expansion broke it. But I know it was that because the stud was still in the hole, nut and all, lodged against the manifold runner. the holes may just need to be enlarged a little bit to allow for expansion sideways, not from warping away from the head. Also, I have a larger turbo, intercooler pipe, and exhaust hanging off the studs in the aluminum, no heli-coils. The exhaust is only hung back at the rear crossmember. Metal is strong. You do not need any extra supports. Edited November 7, 2011 by Technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 You do not need any extra supports. If any of us want many miles of daily driving without a problem at all, it is essential to have a support brace on it. All OEM assemblies pulled off the head too, and many in just a few thousand miles. To eliminate that problem, a support is needed. If you have a drag car where you live under the hood, then you are checking them regularly anyway. Thus, less need for a brace, but even then, one will help keep the studs from pulling out and or breaking.Yes, keeping the nuts tight is essential too and will lesson any awkward stress on the studs. This does not negate the need for a support brace. Simply put, there is way too much weight hanging on the studs in aluminum bosses. Especially with that funk-mo Treadstone manifold that moves all of the weight further away from the head flange and directly horizontal from it. The fact that aluminum expands and contracts at different rates, and the higher temp of a turbo manifold, makes it very hard to keep things perfect over time. a support ensures it will not put awkward stress on a stud even if the nut comes loose. How many of us have found a nut loose there before? I'd say all of us who have any experience at all on these cars. Only a support can cover that base and give you a larger window of time to find a nut has come loose, before damage occurs. I wouldn't enlarge any holes unless you go with bigger studs, which seems would make your fitment problem worse from what you've posted so far. Bigger holes will put even more awkward stress on the studs and tend to break them even faster. A heli-coil or higher quality thread insert will never fail if properly done. How many of us have found damaged bosses? To eliminate that as being a future problem, you can't go wrong to improve it. A big issue is the different rates of expansion between the steel stud and the aluminum head, and the cast manifold. All 3 expand at different rates, thus issues with the nuts staying tight, and the aluminum threads becoming damaged even if the nut doesn't back off at all. It depends on what head you have too. All of the factors involved can pull the entire stud out from the head without the nut moving on the stud at all. We deal with aluminum bossed castings and machined aluminum at my work. We would never think of putting a threaded stud of any kind into an aluminum boss. We use keenserts for all such applications. There should also be a minimum of 3 places under the car where the exhaust is supported with hangers. One can use only a rear hanger, but they are asking for trouble with more than just the head studs. That tends to tweak the OEM manifold itself and cause it to crack in the center under the turbo. Maybe a Treadstone can handle the extra tweaking from an improperly supported exhaust system, but why ask it to? A rear only support will also allow the system to hang too low to have reasonable clearance for street driving. It stresses the flex tube more too, assuming there is one. Edit: In my opinion, this is yet another item on a long list that led to the downfall of the StarQuest in general. Too much exhaust weight and too far of a temperature swing to expect the system to stay intact long enough to last for the average consumer to purchase it. Engineers saw the problem for years, with no good way for a manufacturing facility to help it, since a triangle brace is about the only true way to ensure lasting stability. That would cost way too much to manufacture and add another few hundred bucks to each car purchase. No other department would buy off on something like that in any company I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTTY Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Ive used Toyota Corolla exhaust studs and a support brace in the past , like Tim said above thats a lot of weight hanging on them puny little factory studs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) Yeah, its a tough call if there isn't a place for a stud on the manifold somewhere. It would be even better if someone came up with a triangulated web that also bolts to the frame with one end on the motor mount. Then come straight up to the manifold with a spreader device to adjust it for supporting the weight. Like a small block chevy exhaust manifold spreader tool. Then we could mount as much weight there as we want without pulling on the head studs. Problem is that it would need to be a solid steel motor mount or a very well engineered piece that could incorporate a rubber pad on the support bracket too. Hi Tim, Long time No see...Anything can be modified. It just takes knowledge and a reputable source to do it. I like your idea of using a triangular bracket to support the extra weight on the Cylinder Head connected to the Motor Mount. After all, Some guys hang huge turbos off of the Exhaust manifold and or Header (SMB and Treadstones) that don't have any support for the extra weight put on the Cylinder head exhaust threaded holes, and wonder why they have problems with their header or log manifold P.S. Guys, these Cylinder heads are made out of ALUMINUM!!!!! Could that perhaps be the reason that after Tim installed the steel inserts, that he had no further problems I personally still run the Stock Exhaust manifold. And it has worked fine for me going on 21 years with plenty of modifications done to the engine.Granted, I don't have all the extra weight of a larger Turbo putting stress on the Cylinder Head. But, I can see by some of the pictures of your Turbo set ups, why this is happening. Bill Edited November 9, 2011 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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