The "REAL ROCKY" Story Is On ESPN Tonight

[lionbull]

Sometimes we step in before things get ugly, sometimes after. Don't ask why, it's just life.

 

Why make us mods do all the work?

 

I agree and what i thought of adding but neglected to is we need to do a better job of moderating ourselves. You literally took the words out of my mouth when you said

Why make us mods do all the work?

[drummer030201]

 

[chiplee]

Chip, After re-reading your report, I am retracting what I said about that. You have my apologies for the accusation.

 

Well I appreciate that.

 

However, I am offended...

 

Well that makes two of us, and I can't really mind right now, because to me your leadership position here means you should be happy to share responsibility (and offense) for the offensive actions taken in that thread.

 

that you singled me out in your ranting in this thread when I wasn't the one that locked the topic. Nor did I like the generalizations about me not allowing other topics in the BS forum. You were upset that thread was locked and chose me to be the one you lashed out at

 

Ranting? Lashed out? I made a valid point about your having used the fact that this is a car forum as justification for locking threads that aren't about cars. I suggest you just don't use that as justification anymore and the opportunity won't exist.

 

I don't have your education or debating skills so fencing with words you will always pick and choose what makes you the winner at the cost of others.

 

Also, dead false. I am happy to stand corrected or admit when someone presents better information than I have presented. You are suggesting that I would take intellectual liberties to "win" an argument on false pretenses. That just isn't true.

 

You know as well as I do that on numerous occasions your obsession with the "God" issue you and others have overstepped the boundaries and the threads were either locked or removed from view.

 

Perhaps in the distant past, but what's your point? Am I a member in good standing at this moment or not? If not, then ban me, believe me I'm busy enough right now to not even notice. If so then get off my back. As long as I'm abiding by the TOS you guys should be content. Is there a caveat to my membership here that I'm not aware of? Religion+chiplee=lock? What do you mean "obsession"? It's a topic like any other topic, and I happen to know everything about it. When a thread is going well, and everyone involved has managed to keep it civil, what business is it of yours or Chad's to interrupt our conversation? The moderating team's best bet would be to come in here and admit that it was a premature lock and just reopen it, but instead you chose to defend the indefensible, perpetuate what should be a dead and obvious issue, and rationalize a brash decision with inapplicable analogies about cops and speeding and whatnot. Jimmy, I called you out because you should show some leadership among the other mods and stand up for what is right here. You could persuade them to undo the wrong that's been done in that thread but you seem to want to stay hands off about it. I'd like for you to bear the burden of your position a little more fully, and try to change it, vice just saying "I didn't do it". You are the old, universally respected voice of reason around here; the sensei if you will. Get the members' backs on some of this overmoderation lately man. I don't really care who did it. (Chad) You know i love you both, but I'm not willing to sulk away quietly when it's out of the box. I respect you both enough to tell you it was a dumb decision to close that thread and it's a dumber decision to defend closing that thread. And don't forget I tried to take this to PM and got ignored. What's next?

Edited October 27, 2011 by chiplee

[chiplee]

 

Moderators and Admins follow and respect the same Terms of Service as everyone else. And as moderators it is our "job" to make sure those Terms are respect and followed at all times. Finding, and removing, exact violations of the ToS agreement is probably the easiest part of our job.

 

The tough part of the job is that most often we have to read "in between the lines" and act on what we feel is best. What some people tend to forget is the fact that Moderators are people too! We're not perfect, we do make mistakes, and sometimes we do act to quickly (not saying that's what happened this time, but just in general). But I do know for a fact that every one of the moderators here care about this site, and our actions are made for the betterment of this site and it's members.

 

Part of our job as a moderator is to remove harmful, inappropriate and sometimes obscene content, in an attempt to stop any problems before they can start. Most of the time that decision is left up to our best judgement. This goes back to where I say that Moderators are people too. Our moderating team is fairly diverse, from male to female, young to old(er), and we all come from different walks of life. So the things that I find offensive may not bother Jimmy, Robert or Ken.

 

To help eliminate this "human emotion" flaw, we do our best to work as a team and moderate as a team. I personally don't know why some of the other threads get locked, or why some posts get removed. But the fact is that I trust my fellow moderators and I back their decision until it is made known to the rest of us why the action was made. Issues and problems on this site are taken very seriously, and the moderation team does their best to look at each situation fairly and discuss it as a group.

 

Just to show an example. Many members have voiced their opinions about the new members of this site. As a direct result of those opinions, we now have a new members section on his site. The Admin and Moderators worked hard to come up with a way to help the newbies of this site find the information they need without harassing the other members.

 

Believe it or not, SQC has changed a LOT in the recent years. I can remember a time when issues would blow up to the point that the site would be shut down for a day or two. I haven't seen anything come even close to that in a couple years. A lot of that is because of the members we have now, and a lot of it comes from the fact that things are a bit more laid back on the moderating front than they once were.

 

I'm not wanting to take the "if you don't like it, leave" attitude, but one thing for sure is that this is Ryddler's site, and as long as he wants to keep it a family friendly site, then some things will never be allowed here. However, change isn't frowned upon here and we are always looking for ways to better this community. If you don't like the way something is done here or want to see a change, then utilize the Site Wish List section that has been offered to everyone. It's as simple as that. There really is no need to throw up an attitude the moment something happens that you don't understand or like.

 

So did you post that for someone else or are you a moderator? And now that the "reason" has been made clear to you, do you still support the moderating "team's" decision in this case? Oh and believe me, this wasn't "the moment" something happened that I didn't like. This has been brewing for quite a while. There's been a general laziness and rashness about the moderating decisions here lately that just isn't necessary or sensible.

[chiplee]

Somtimes we step in before things get ugly, sometimes after. Don't ask why, it's just life.

 

Negative. Stepping in "before it gets ugly" is a far cry from stepping in before there is a single thing wrong. And the TOS explicitly allows for asking "why" via PM or the report to moderators button. In this case that was ignored so I made a comment in a thread. I would have been happy to discuss via PM this whole time.

 

It's like passing a cop at 15 over and not getting pulled over 10 times in a row, and getting a ticket on the 11th at only 11 over.

No, it's nothing like that at all. It's like getting censored, and the day people stop complaining about that is the day I stop believing in humanity.

 

Don't whine and complain about that one ticket and call that cop an A-hole when you know you are guilty

 

Oh so we know we're guilty? Guilty of what? Intelligent and rational discourse?

 

and have been over and over again. Just like cops, there are fewer of us and more of you. If we enforced every rule every time, there would be little to view after it was all cleaned up in many otherwise useful topics, the BS sections probalby wouldn't exist, and it woudl take 100 mods to do it.

 

How 'bout one mod that doesn't swoop in, read 30 words and click lock because he doesn't have time to keep up with it?

 

BTW, if we all left religion and politics alone, most of our problem topics wouldn't exist. Plain and simple.

 

And? Life has difficult subjects. I don't let my immediate family get away with avoiding them, why should I let you guys get away with it? these topics matter.

 

Perhaps all of you should exercize some self restraint, there are other sites for such topics, it just doesn't mix will in this crowd. Why make us mods do all the work?

 

That's just the thing. "you mods" have stopped doing any work, except maybe jimmy. I want to see threads get pulled down, cleaned up and reopened with a warning like the good ole' days. Better yet, ban the ACTUAL flamers in those thread while the adults continue the discussion. I'll be happy to identify them for you if you want.

Edited October 27, 2011 by chiplee

[Taz]

 

So did you post that for someone else or are you a moderator? And now that the "reason" has been made clear to you, do you still support the moderating "team's" decision in this case? Oh and believe me, this wasn't "the moment" something happened that I didn't like. This has been brewing for quite a while. There's been a general laziness and rashness about the moderating decisions here lately that just isn't necessary or sensible.

 

Who would I be posting it for? I stated MY opinion on the matter, not someone else's. Yes, I am a moderator and, yes, I still back the moderator's decision to lock the thread.

[lionbull]

MODS,

 

How do you choose who will be a mod? Is it a boys club thing? do you even need to own a quest?. how do you prove yourself? I would like to know if I am eligibility(good standing) to be one. How many mods are there?

 

Chip,

I like your posts lately.

Edited October 27, 2011 by lionbull

[Chad]

I haven't locked a topic in so long, I can't even recall the last one. It seems I've been stereotyped and/or falsely accused.

[Burton]

Soooooooo, did anyone actually watch the show that this thread was originally about? Edited October 27, 2011 by Burton

[lionbull]

Seems like there's a mad dog on the loose then. Everybody is falsely accused but yet they all stand by each other huh? Saw a movie like than once. Edited October 27, 2011 by JAinsworth
Content not suitable for SQC

[BrazilBoy]

Seems like there's a mad dog on the loose then. Everybody is falsely accused but yet they all stand by each other huh? Saw a movie like than once.

 

Dood seriously!!!! Comparing mods to rapists is so uncalled for... You owe them all an apology for that.. These are men have families that could read that statement... Would you like your kids to read that about you?

Edited October 27, 2011 by JAinsworth

[lionbull]

 

Dood seriously!!!! Comparing mods to rapists is so uncalled for... You owe them all an apology for that.. These are men have families that could read that statement... Would you like your kids to read that about you?

 

 

Go drink some coffee Dood seriously!!. It was not a direct comparison or a personal attack and I would never to that to anyone here. It was a reference to how I see business being managed. The point was the lookout guy always says i did not do it!

Ask yourself why you did not see that.

 

I must ask you this: Do you the difference when someone does not like you and not being likeable?

Edited October 27, 2011 by lionbull

[lionbull]

Jimmy,

 

I appologize. should have worded that better

Edited October 27, 2011 by lionbull

[BOHO]

Soooooooo, did anyone actually watch the show that this thread was originally about?

 

LOL @ this guy.......WWEEEEEE

[BrazilBoy]

 

 

Go drink some coffee Dood seriously!!. It was not a direct comparison or a personal attack and I would never to that to anyone here. If was a reference to how I see business being managed. Ask yourself why you did not see that.

 

I must ask you this: Do you the difference between not being liked and not being likeable?

 

The answer is I dont care if Im liked or not.. It causes no effect on me.. I say what must be said although I try and do it with some sense decorum...

[lionbull]

The answer is I dont care if Im liked or not.. It causes no effect on me.. I say what must be said although I try and do it with some sense decorum...

 

I ask for the difference. Not whether you care or not. Let me pose a different question. How would you feel if someone does not respect you as opposed to you not being respectable?

Edited October 27, 2011 by lionbull

[JAinsworth]

This thread has nothing but off-topic posts in it. Like Burton said, did anyone actually watch the show this thread is about?

Jimmy

[Chad]

No, it's nothing like that at all. It's like getting censored, and the day people stop complaining about that is the day I stop believing in humanity.

 

Censorship? in a private website? If you come to my house to visit and use some swear words or talk about sexual stuff infront of my 8 year old son and I tell you to stop, do you feel censored? That is BS. It's my castle, my rules, take it or get out. This is Bobs house, and you accepted his rules when you signed up.

 

 

 

 

Oh so we know we're guilty? Guilty of what? Intelligent and rational discourse?

 

guilty of stiring the pot, inciting unproductive debade, beating a dead horse. You already know you won't win any one over here, it serves no useful purpose. Don't like it or disagree? go somewhere else, there is lots of internet to go arround.

 

 

How 'bout one mod that doesn't swoop in, read 30 words and click lock because he doesn't have time to keep up with it?

 

 

we aren't here to serve you, we are here to serve the site. Some times we don't have the time to dedicate ourselves to every damn topic to your liking. That was what the cop analogy was all about.

 

 

And? Life has difficult subjects. I don't let my immediate family get away with avoiding them, why should I let you guys get away with it? these topics matter.

 

 

if you feel that way about it, go somewhere else, this is the BS section, why take it so damn serious? It wasn't put here for you to use as your soap box, it's here to give an alternate location for off-topic sharing, not for "important" stuff. If it were important to Bob, there would be a religion section.

 

 

 

That's just the thing. "you mods" have stopped doing any work, except maybe jimmy. I want to see threads get pulled down, cleaned up and reopened with a warning like the good ole' days. Better yet, ban the ACTUAL flamers in those thread while the adults continue the discussion. I'll be happy to identify them for you if you want.

 

 

I think you shoudl come here more often and read more topic, you are totaly out of touch to think that. If you take a narrow view of the forums, you get a narrow outcome. That fact that you think this is at all just proves the point.

[Shelby]

a good many of you only hit 1 or 2 forums , try this befor you start yelling about what the mmoderators do or don't do

start out your day by reading 4 or 5 forums ,ALL new posts with in each forum,, now after your thru spending 3 hours

you can stop by the BS forum and see whats going on ,,you may be suprise'd to see a great many people here posting that you NEVER see any where else on the site , why is that ?

 

do any of you wonder why you see so many "my car won't start " threads in the VM forums,,the answer is simple , they do not waste their time reading other threads even tho they have the exact same question ,,cause that takes time and they don't want to waste their time reading,, it's better to make some one retype the same info over and over 100's of times

the same things cause a no start today as it did 3, 4, or even 10 years ago , and much more info can be found in old posts then waiting for a new responce , sure if you have a newer non oem set up your problem may be uniqe but odds are most do no have that problem but if you do feel free to make a new thread but look arround a bit first

[chiplee]

 

Censorship? in a private website? If you come to my house to visit and use some swear words or talk about sexual stuff infront of my 8 year old son and I tell you to stop, do you feel censored? That is BS. It's my castle, my rules, take it or get out. This is Bobs house, and you accepted his rules when you signed up.

 

That comparison doesn't really fit, Chad. A better or more applicable analogy would be this. "If I'm your host, and you and some friends come into my house for some friendly discussion, and I FORCE you to stop as soon as a topic we've fought about in the past comes up, do you feel censored?" And the answer would be, Yep, because the fact that we've fought about it in the past has nothing to do with the current conversation. When people are just having an open and honest discussion that isn't hurting anyone, and the content of that discussion is deemed inappropriate by someone "in charge", that is censorship. It doesn't matter why they deem it inappropriate. It might be true that the conversation is doomed to fail, but ending it before failure is just plain defeatist. Telling people they can leave if they don't like it is confrontational, which is not usually part of being a good host. You can call it whatever you want, but comparing our discussion to swearing in front of your 8 year old just isn't right. We only talked in front of your "8 year old", and only after being invited here SPECIFICALLY FOR TALKING. This is a discussion forum. And besides, none of Bob's rules were violated. Of course this is a "private" website, but it's a private website in the United States, not North Korea. It's kind of assumed that something like the free speech we enjoy in our day to day lives will be afforded here, so long as it is calm and respectful. The whole "my house, my rules" argument is tired.

 

 

 

 

 

guilty of stiring the pot, inciting unproductive debade, beating a dead horse. You already know you won't win any one over here, it serves no useful purpose. Don't like it or disagree? go somewhere else, there is lots of internet to go arround.

 

I bought my first Conquest in 1993, Chad. That's 18 years ago. You know as well as I do that there's no place else to go for interaction with the people I've built friendships with here at sqc. I think it's pretty unreasonable to reduce my time here and the time and effort I put into my posts to "serving no useful purpose." The flippant way that you suggest I should just hang it up with a community I've participated in for nearly two decades is a little harsh. And for the awful crime of merely disagreeing with a moderator? I should just "go somewhere else?" I get the majority of my philosophy and religion debate fix at other websites, but when the topics arise here I will participate in them. Get used to it. I haven't stopped in all this time. What would make you think I'd consider stopping now?

 

 

 

 

we aren't here to serve you, we are here to serve the site. Some times we don't have the time to dedicate ourselves to every damn topic to your liking. That was what the cop analogy was all about.

 

Oh, ok. My mistake then. But tell me, what exactly is the site without the members? A server somewhere? I suggest you reconsider exactly what you're here to do, and who you're here to serve.

 

 

 

 

if you feel that way about it, go somewhere else, this is the BS section, why take it so damn serious? It wasn't put here for you to use as your soap box, it's here to give an alternate location for off-topic sharing, not for "important" stuff. If it were important to Bob, there would be a religion section.

 

Oh now come the heck on here, Chad. Listen to yourself. Members here have made suicide threats, disclosed awful relationship hardships and feelings of utter depression. In the case in question, a member opened the floor to sincere discussion about death anxiety and our common thread as humans. Some topics just are "serious". It's not me taking them "so damn serious." It's that they are "so damn serious."

 

 

 

 

 

I think you shoudl come here more often and read more topic, you are totaly out of touch to think that. If you take a narrow view of the forums, you get a narrow outcome. That fact that you think this is at all just proves the point.

 

On this one I'll concede that the generalization was uncalled for. I'm sure most of the mods are actually trying to do the right thing and doing a good job of it. That was the frustration talking. I apologize. But the member mafia is watching, so you all better be on your A game.

Edited October 28, 2011 by chiplee

[lionbull]

chip's replies are the only thing that can put a scratch on Chuck Norris.

[Shelby]

On this one I'll concede that the generalization was uncalled for. I'm sure most of the mods are actually trying to do the right thing and doing a good job of it. That was the frustration talking. I apologize. But the member mafia is watching, so you all better be on your A game.

^Chiplee c/p

 

Chip i'm one of your bigest fan's and am proud of what you have done is just a few short years , you have a natural talent with words , but that alone will not always make you sucessfull with others , you don't play well with others ,thats not a bad thing esp in your job field but that job is not going to last for ever , and sooner or later your gona find your self in the mix with ,for lack of a better word common folk where your drive to have the last word and be the winner is gona cause you to be the odd ball in the crowd , the guy not invite'd to the cook out or street party . ( right now that would not bother you in the least , but one day it will )

 

lets look at what you just wrote,, you start off by saying your sorry,,but follow that up with "i'm sure most of the mods " you didn't say all , and thats a problem it shows you are holding animosity towards some one or more then one person ,

 

then you say

"That was the frustration talking. I apologize" follow'd by " But the member mafia is watching, so you all better be on your A game." this clearly says you are not sorry , and had to take one last stab at some one .

 

and why the frustration in the first place , you better then most know there is NO such thing as fredom of speach , this is a privitely own web site not a public stage for any one to say what ever they want , we have had to watch our word useage our entire life time it's nothing new , nothing has change'd we still need to respect others when we are in their home , same as you'd want with us in your home

 

you want to know what frustration realy is, it's not being able to acess that part of your brain that holds higher learning and language skills any longer and haveing to make do with lesser word useage or more primitive comunication skills , some thing i hope you never have to deal with but all it takes is a simple acident and it can happen to any one , that my friend is "frustration "

 

what i'm trying to say Chip is we are your friends here not competiors , it's a car site where member try to help each other keep their cars onthe road , and a social meeting place second

[lionbull]

Shelby,

 

that was a damn good reply. good old fashion life experience talking to us. I like what you said about frustration as well. this human form is fragile and you don't know what's around the corner in this life. Today for you tomorrow for me.

[Chad]

Chip, I'm not going to invest much more time into this but so say the following,

 

This isn't an arguement or discussion, it's you vs. us. you want to win? start your own site. You want to participate? follow the rules (which you are), and confrom to the sites unique atmosphere (which you are not). You are the anamoly here, and we aren't obligated to you in any way. If NEO-Nazi come here and wants us all to see his light, are we obligated to let him piss us all off? No! Why? cause this is private property. Some of use may appreciate your contribution and view point, there was a time where I did, and read what you had to say. Probelm is, you have turned the volume up way too loud and use a methodology that is way to abrasive. I quit reading it all together because I just found it offensive to read. I think you lost us all a long time ago, and now the only people you speak to are the ones that will never hear you. You almost seem like that NEo-Nazi to me, and deffinalty to others. Only the subject matter is different.

 

Asking you to you leave the BS section if you don't like the moderation is simple: don't like what is going on? do something about it, don't punnish us all, just move on. You have had your say, and we aren't inclined to fundimentaly change. OK, move on. It's not the content that is the problem, it's the attitude behind it. If you don't see that, you need to move on. You aren't going to win in these debates, cause they aren't a competition, there is no "win". It's not that important that you need to have us see your point. If they want to see it, they will, if not, talking louuder or longer won't fix that. I have gotten way more people to agree with me on things in life by talking softly and respectfuly, than by loudly and brashly. Even if the subject matter were a similar matter as this. If they don't agree, fine, it's their life, let them live it. You have given them the information you wanted them to have, let them spend it however the wish. We aren't stifling your rights to speak in the matter, we are asking you to stop beating up the subject here. There are tons of places to spread your word, go there, spread it.

 

I will "censor" anyone I wish in my own home, any time I wish. Don't like it? Don't come to my house. I've never found need to, but it's my reality, it's my right. You have the same rights in your own home. You have even killed for those rights for us all (thank you BTW), so you should get that. This is not your site, and being here a long time does not grant any squatters rights. this sense of entitlement really vexes me. this isn't my house either, I too am a guest. You were not invited here, you came to the door and Bob let you enter. Bob Didn't ask you to discuss religion, and nither did anyone else. you choose to do so, of your own volition. It's a privlidge, treat it like one.

 

It has run it's course, and no one is better off if you continue to stir a controversial subject that is very dear and close to many here. You have a minority opinion, and it's one you are passionate about, fine, none of us want's to take that away from you. You do not however have the rights to MAKE us hear you. We are not obligated to you. I've owned my car since 1991, and been active here since 1998, do I feel "entitled"? hell no.

 

Your comparison to other "heavy" subjects is rater odd. One can belive in religion, or not, but you can't belive in suicide or not, it's entirely a different subject matter. religion is in-tangeable, but a dead body is very real. Same for a relationship issue where the other person is real and right infront of you, or a death in the family, that you can really see and the consequences are real and forever. Religion is just something one takes in on faith. You shoudl be able to see that better than any as you have studied and debated it from that very scientific viewport yourself, that because it's not "tangeable" in any form what-so-ever, it can't be emphaticly trusted. Why must you have your say in the matter when others wish you didn't? Cause it's a free country? while that is true that this country is free, this is not a free site, and few sites are. You have to conform to the sites rules and the memberships comfort level. Make us all unfomfortable, you may just find your self escorted out, we can do that, cause it's we are free to Censor anything we wish. You want to call us names and vilify us for it? fine, do so. start a new .net site. that you are free to do.

 

Chip, this isn't about religion, it's about you making so many members unhappy or uncomfortable. What gives you the right? the anser is : nothing and no one.

 

We are not here to serve you, we aer here to serve everyone. You are a part of everyine, but everyone is not a part of you. Your are being selfish. Just try your approach when it's time to enroll your daughter in pubilc school and you find they aren't meeting her needs. They are there to serve the most kids the best way possible. I can guarantee at some point, that will mean your daughter will get the shaft in her educaiton. they are not there to serve her, or you, they are there to serve all. Comprimise is necesary, and you wil be on the bad end of that sooner or later. We finaly put our son in srivate school because of this, where our say really matters. Your say here is listened to, but your voice is one among thousands. You have been heard, and we have not been moved to change (not much anyway), get over it.

[Jody1]

I hope this site does not lose anymore competent content providers. It appears that losses are just that, losses. Only to be replaced by more, less thoughtful providers, and then the effect appears to be cumulative.

 

While there are many facets of professional editing, thick skin is certainly required, so as not to thwart new, or "offensive" ideas.

 

While some say "quit typing", others may say "quit reading".

 

Chip is offensive to me mainly for his run-on sentences, and use of logic,(Chris Hitchens he is not). Some of his content is interesting, however, and having a speller, or two, on an internet board seems to be a positive.

 

 

Editing is, of course, fairly straightforward when it comes to "Black & White" issues, such as stealing, lying, misreprensentin, **********, etc. And a heavy hand may be justified.

 

Editing arbitrary items such as tastes, opinions, beliefs, colors, sizeness, hottness, "she's not that big", may be fraught with difficulty, and inconsistency, and a lighter hand may be warranted.

 

Good Luck