Guest Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Why did they ban plastic bags in the first place? because this is California, where all the stupid ideas are tried here first, then spreads to your neck of the woods!! They banned the bags because of the "environment". To some degree, I agree. I toss those stupid grocery bags out into the trash bin all the time, I'm sure those bags take FOREVER to biodegrade. We keep big giant arse shoppping bags in our cars now, no biggie, they get reused every time and don't clutter up my space under the sink like grocery store bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averse Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 if you look a little deeper you'l see the real reson,,an excuse to charge you more That makes no sense. The grocery stores didnt lobby for or make up the law, legislators did. I am sure the grocery stores dislike this law because that few cents per bag is going to cost them more $$$ over losing customers upset about the principle than they will gain from the new bag revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 did you guys know, about the whole tree thing, the more paper you use the more trees are planted, proven, 2 trees for every 1 taken and it takes more energy to recycle then cut a tree down. so by using paper bags or paper, you are actually doing good because 2x1 trees planted This is not logical reasoning for chopping down trees, you have been brain washed by the lumber industry and enviro's who sell themselves to the mega lumber companies. Them fools be chopping down trees that took 20, 30, 50- 100+ years to grow. What's gonna happen when they finish chopping down trees from the 16th, 17th and 18th century? I came from a tropical country, where we had property and grew up, there were trees the size of highrise buildings, you can drive a bus through them. I went back 18 years ago, all them 200 year old trees were gone!! CHOPPED UP FOR PAPER AND FURNITURE!! They tell you "we planting 2 trees for every 1 we chop", but so what? It's gonna take DECADES UPON DECADES BEFORE THOSE TREES reach the heights and maturity of the ones they chopped away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 where is it they are planting these tree's , it certianly wasn't on the mountians where they clear cut , it wasn't down the road where all them houseing went up ,,,,, maybe it was on the moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I bet you all watch extreme loggers with joy. The solution is cloth bags, and wash them is you buy bloody meat that leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 It seems the paper bags emit methane when decomposing and methane is a greenhouse gas So paper is out Cloth bags that are manufactured specifically for grocery stores have a limited use life and end in landfills or are discarded in storm drains or various public thoroughfares and they are more difficult and costly to recycle.So cloth is out Plastic bags are now accepted in recycle trash receptacles as long as they are combined together inside another plastic bagas not to fly out of the recycle bin while in transit on its way to the recycling center. So plastic is back in, because in the long run it leaves a smaller carbon footprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DryBear Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 FWIW, the same thing is in effect in San Francisco - the Safeway near my work does not have any plastic bags at all, while the Office Depot, PetSmart, and O'Reillys Auto Parts stores right next to the Safeway still use plastic bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 i dont know what kind of plastic grocery bags you guys have, but most around here don't biodegrade (in fact most plastics don't biodegrade, they photodegrade, and that just means they break a part into smaller and smaller pieces, but they will always be plastic. things that biodegrade actually change their composition and become something new). Many recyclers can't actually recycle the plastic from the bags, because it's of a certain type (#5 maybe??). and, more importantly, plastic takes oil. As a society, we have to absolutely work away from disposable items AND lower the total amount of stuff that we use. it's really a plan for the far future, ultimately. People want to cut down on the toxic swap in the ocean from all the photodegraded plastics. Cali specifically wants to get rid of the plastic bags because they end up in storm drains and in the ocean. our whole state is on the coast, so anything that impacts the water get's attention. and yes, i'm sure there is also political motivation involved as well. but to somehow say it's wrong to ban plastic bags is damned ridiculous. Do none of you realize that everything on the planet is finite. that the more our generation uses, the less of everything there will be for the future generations. The world is gonna keep going after you've died. every little bit of change can add up. and do somehow take some anti-environmental stance, or even worse, to imply that it's all a ruse is really very ignorant. There's no real justification to choose plastic bags over recycled paper or to just use your own bags. plastic bags ONLY came in to popularity because the petroleum industry went to every supermarket chain and gave them FREE plastic bags AND training on how the bags are to be used (you know those little bag holders/mounts). all that stuff was paid for by the petroleum industry for the specific purpose of pushing out the lumber industry, and essentially forcing supermarkets to use plastic (because what is cheaper than free?). once the plastic bag "mount" took over the normal place for the paper bags, it was just a matter of time til the paper bag was fazed out. so some of you talk of how it's some leftist/environmental conspiracy to get rid of plastic bags, but the whole reason the bags are their in the first place is because corporate industries intentionally undercut the market despite the adverse effects on consumers (using up oil, filling landfills, killing sea life). sometimes I come here and wonder how some of you can be as bullheaded as you are over such an obviously flawed ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 FWIW, the same thing is in effect in San Francisco - the Safeway near my work does not have any plastic bags at all, while the Office Depot, PetSmart, and O'Reillys Auto Parts stores right next to the Safeway still use plastic bags. yes, because supermarkets are the biggest producer of plastic bags. the supermarket is always busy, and it's pushing out a constant stream of bags, often double bagging. getting legislation passed that would effect ALL businesses is much much harder than passing legislation that effects only supermarkets. so that's probably why it was done first. but, i'm sure they'll be banned in all stores at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 It seems the paper bags emit methane when decomposing and methane is a greenhouse gasSo paper is out Cloth bags that are manufactured specifically for grocery stores have a limited use life and end in landfills or are discarded in storm drains or various public thoroughfares and they are more difficult and costly to recycle.So cloth is out Plastic bags are now accepted in recycle trash receptacles as long as they are combined together inside another plastic bagas not to fly out of the recycle bin while in transit on its way to the recycling center. So plastic is back in, because in the long run it leaves a smaller carbon footprint. This is an incredibly one-sided argument. You listed negative things for paper and cloth, and only positive things for plastic. Why do you love plastic bags so much? As to why only grocery stores got banned: who do you think has the most plastic bags used? when you go to the pharmacy next door, do you fill 10 plastic bags with medicine? lol. In China, you can still get plastic, but it costs about 20 cents (equivalent). Maybe if you plastic bag lovers would just make a petition to get them back, but pay for them, the stores would oblige. Who knows, you could get lucky! PBL. That's short for plastic bag lovers. Because you love plastic bags and are crying about losing them on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) There was a mandate regarding plastic bags that several counties developed making the retail establishments responsible of offering recycling on premise for the disposal of the bags.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDPE The bags are not free to the stores they can be used as a deduction for business expense in printed advertisements.Stores not offering recycling would just not offer the bags.http://orangepunch.o...tic-bags/51393/ Then there is the argument of whether it is the plastic bag that is at fault or the user of the plastic bag.http://hsbsurfrider....ntington-beach/ http://en.wikipedia....ic_shopping_bag Edited October 20, 2011 by Metric-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mech Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm glad you feel so superior than the rest of us. It makes judging us so much easier doesn't it. superior? of course not. judge you? I dont have to.I already know.... America has has one of the highest standard/quality of living in the world. it doesnt get any better. The majority of people on this planet barely have enough food and water to survive. Ohhh but not having a plastic bag is such an inconvenience...because, you know..going to the supermarket to buy your food is so difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mech Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm not saying it doesn't add up, but if the store made $2 profit on what's in the bag, there's no big loss in 1 cent. If I were a store owner, and I could give my customers more convinience and all it cost me was a few cents per purchase, I'd be making things convinient for my customers. Not that I agree with plastic bags as they aren't good for the environment. I'm just speaking on the principal of trying to provide good customer service. its quite possible the amount the supermarkets spend on bags alone could be into the millions, even at just 1 cent a bag. Times are bad for the states.....businesses have to cut back......no matter how large the company. If you were a business owner, you would realize that the little things add up...especially on a large scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I am a business owner, although I am not a large scale business. As a business owner, I don't have to give out stickers and posters to customers when they have me do their cars, but I like to because people really seem to enjoy them. So what if it's a few bucks in materials and a little bit of time, but I'm cool with that because I just made $20 an hour for my time on their job. Little touches like that will make make people remember me more than the other guys who don't strive to go that extra mile for customers. Plus, if they put my sticker on their car, or their friends see the poster, it's free advertising, just like the plastic bags that have the store's name all over them. Again, I'm not saying 1 cent doesn't add up over time, but lets say bags cost 1 cent. A million bags cost the supermarket $10K, which is a huge amount of money. But, what if the store is making $1 profit off the contents of each bag (and I can assure you, they are making more). Compared to that million dollars the $10k is chump change. It's a small price to pay in order not to lose say 25% of your customer base over a convinience issue. Sure I may have saved that $10k, but how much longer will it take me to get to my million dollars profit if I don't have as many customers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 metric-man. plastic bags WERE free. when the plastic bag was first introduced by the petroleum industries the literally went and gave all the grocery stores free bags and free bag holders and trained all the clerks how to use them. I wasn't saying that the bags are still free to the stores. it was to illustrate that the plastic bags pushed paper bags out of the market for lots of stores because they intentionally undercut the market. which I offered as a contrast for those saying the the current push away from plastic is a manipulative strategy, because the irony is that the true manipulation came from the introduction of plastic bags in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 If that's the only thing that point you have that is valid, then OK you can have that one point. But that does not give your other points validity. i dont know what kind of plastic grocery bags you guys have, but most around here don't biodegrade (in fact most plastics don't biodegrade, they photodegrade, and that just means they break a part into smaller and smaller pieces, but they will always be plastic. things that biodegrade actually change their composition and become something new). Many recyclers can't actually recycle the plastic from the bags, because it's of a certain type (#5 maybe??). Most are type #2 which is recyclable and, more importantly, plastic takes oil. As a society, we have to absolutely work away from disposable items AND lower the total amount of stuff that we use. it's really a plan for the far future, ultimately. See above People want to cut down on the toxic swap in the ocean from all the photodegraded plastics. Cali specifically wants to get rid of the plastic bags because they end up in storm drains and in the ocean. our whole state is on the coast, so anything that impacts the water get's attention.and yes, i'm sure there is also political motivation involved as well.but to somehow say it's wrong to ban plastic bags is damned ridiculous. It's not a ban on plastic bags it is a ban on the use of them, you are trying to make a defense against a material that is deemed necessary to sanitation and preserving perishables Do none of you realize that everything on the planet is finite. that the more our generation uses, the less of everything there will be for the future generations. The world is gonna keep going after you've died. every little bit of change can add up.and do somehow take some anti-environmental stance, or even worse, to imply that it's all a ruse is really very ignorant. There's no real justification to choose plastic bags over recycled paper or to just use your own bags. The reason the plastic shopping bag is used is to save energy in space savings and cost of material handling besides being more sanitary than the alternatives. plastic bags ONLY came in to popularity because the petroleum industry went to every supermarket chain and gave them FREE plastic bags AND training on how the bags are to be used (you know those little bag holders/mounts). all that stuff was paid for by the petroleum industry for the specific purpose of pushing out the lumber industry, and essentially forcing supermarkets to use plastic (because what is cheaper than free?). once the plastic bag "mount" took over the normal place for the paper bags, it was just a matter of time til the paper bag was fazed out. so some of you talk of how it's some leftist/environmental conspiracy to get rid of plastic bags, but the whole reason the bags are their in the first place is because corporate industries intentionally undercut the market despite the adverse effects on consumers (using up oil, filling landfills, killing sea life).sometimes I come here and wonder how some of you can be as bullheaded as you are over such an obviously flawed ideal.The use of oil is a completely different argument because plastic can be made from sources other than petroleum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 This community is a riot, take a subject lije plastic shopping bags and you get two plus pages of pissing contest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 The PBLs are out in force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89PalermoSHP Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you guys are going to have a skin-sword fight be sure to put one of those plastic bags on it first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think we should blame the dinosaurs. If it weren't for their damn fossils breaking down and turning into oil, we wouldn't even have any plastic bags to fight about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 plastics bags are sanitary when compared to people who don't clean their reusable bags. my car is cleaner compared to people who don't wash their cars. and as far as perishables, i haven't seen a ban on fruit and vegi bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you guys are going to have a skin-sword fight be sure to put one of those plastic bags on it first No sniveling or shriveling here Harry Potter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMeyerhoff Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Yes damn dynos and pre-historic phytoplankton. What were they thinking! Most of the complaints I've heard about the grocery bags are aesthetic in nature. Literally. They blow around so easy you can't drive a mile without seeing 10 of them stuck in trees. Department stores on the other hand use bags that are heavy by comparison and not so prone to becoming airborne. I can see why people don't want to look at them or why a coastal state doesn't want all the dolphins to choke to death. What I don't get is why a grocery store would charge for mandatory paper bags. I know paper ones cost more, marginally. But seriously did they charge per bag back in the 80s before plastic took over? lol The only reasonable answer is that store is pissed and wants its customers to be pissed too. I'd pick a different store. Personally, I find plastic MUCH more convenient because I can carry as many as my fingers can "hang". Paper bags are awkward to handle and I can't fathom being required to take my own bags every time I think I might buy something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think we should blame the dinosaurs. If it weren't for their damn fossils breaking down and turning into oil, we wouldn't even have any plastic bags to fight about. god another one ,that slept thru class , oil didn't come from dino's , oil is way older then dino's and it came from a time when the earth was cover'd with vegitation for billions of years , it's because of this plant growth that we are now able to live on the planet ,they put the 02 in the air so we can breath ,,oil has nothing to do with animal life and never has as to useing plastics we have to use some thing,, it's more of an education thing then what to use,,all the super markets i know of have recyle pins at the entrance to the store ,, we need to make use of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I don't care if it came from plankton, plants or dinosaurs, I was just talking about fossil fuels like petroleum, methane, or what have you. Excuse me for not being a history major. Oil comes from fossil fuel, and oil gets turned into plastic, that was the connection I was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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