chiplee Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 So, that's it for today, I am going to bring the block in tomorrow and have it checked out and tell him to machine it .030 over for my pistons. Also, on #4 on the intake side, my piston had a little bit of greyish coloration just like in the "detonation" thread going on. But that could be from all the times I hit fuel cut or the time I ran 87 octane on the dyno, lol. I'm not really worried about these pistons. They are champs. Do you have your new pistons already? If so take them along to the machine shop. Your machinist will want them before he cuts the block, or he should. I'd wait for him to ask for them to be sure but that's just me. I like to test people I'm spending money with when I don't know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Good idea, I'll bring them in since I have to pull them anyway. I could grab the stock pistons that came out of this new block and just hone the thing and toss it in. See how much I can make on stock, then on Hpers, then forged, if someone wants to donate a set. Not going to happen, sadly, since if it blows up again, I'm going to do a 2.3 or 2.4 or a 6g74 with 6g72 heads and a sc61 hanging off each side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentkilla Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Good idea, I'll bring them in since I have to pull them anyway. I could grab the stock pistons that came out of this new block and just hone the thing and toss it in. See how much I can make on stock, then on Hpers, then forged, if someone wants to donate a set. Not going to happen, sadly, since if it blows up again, I'm going to do a 2.3 or 2.4 or a 6g74 with 6g72 heads and a sc61 hanging off each side. i'm with ya on that, wish u were closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Good idea, I'll bring them in since I have to pull them anyway. I could grab the stock pistons that came out of this new block and just hone the thing and toss it in. See how much I can make on stock, then on Hpers, then forged, if someone wants to donate a set. Not going to happen, sadly, since if it blows up again, I'm going to do a 2.3 or 2.4 or a 6g74 with 6g72 heads and a sc61 hanging off each side. Sorry if I'm missing something, but you're not using those pistons again are you? One of them has a big gouge out of it. The machinist should want the actual pistons you plan to install when he cuts your block for them. He should measure every one and bore for that size, not just an arbitrary .030 over stock spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Chip, if your talking about the "gouge" in this pic... http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/data/529/medium/DSC02452.JPG it's not a gouge, they're machined/cast/whatever into all the pistons ( I think it's a marker of some type) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Chip, if your talking about the "gouge" in this pic... http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/data/529/medium/DSC02452.JPG it's not a gouge, they're machined/cast/whatever into all the pistons ( I think it's a marker of some type) interesting, what kind of pistons are they again? Thought they were wisecos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 .030 over HyperU's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/data/529/medium/DSC02452.JPG That mark is to tell you that you install the piston so that it face forward- front of engine, The piston is designed off the oem with a 020 pin offset the offset is there so that the skirts takes less force when the piston changes direction in the cylinder. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 You built an mpi car with hyper-Us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 You built an mpi car with hyper-Us? not entirely unreasonable if you're sure it's tuned. I think there are a few cast piston MPI machines running. I wish guys would boost their cars like their pistons were cast, instead of thinking boost is safe with forged pistons. Especially when they're unsure of their fuel supply. Forged pistons are no excuse to make even one high boost pull with questionable fuel delivery, and I've probably made 200 high boost pulls with questionable fuel delivery. New G54B rule of thumb; "treat every engine as if it's a stock build". I mean, is there really anything you want your built engine to have to endure that your stock engine couldn't hold up to? Performance builds are for mistakes for our engines. There's just not that much actual performance gain possible for mechanical changes in our engines. I probably lost performance by going to pauter rods. Those suckers are heavy. But when my fuel filter clogged on the way to the drag strip a few months ago and I made a few low boost passes to see if my trouble shooting was working, the engine held up to it. It was leaning out every pass, and that might have hurt stock pistons or hyper u's. To me that's all forged pistons are good for, durability during less than optimal situations, like clogged fuel filters. This isn't really directed at you Indiana, I know you know this stuff. But Technology talked about doing a performance comparison between stock, hyper U and forged pistons and I almost posted something similar then. Your surprise at a hyper u MPI car sealed the deal. No reason not to build a hyper U mpi, or even a stock rebuilt MPI car, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 For a comparison between breaking points of pistons, you'd have to have many thousands of dollars invested in everything else, and not care about wasting that money. I honestly believe I can get 400hp out of this thing with hypers. There may be other stuff involved like big time head work, but to me it seems reasonable and feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 For a comparison between breaking points of pistons, you'd have to have many thousands of dollars invested in everything else, and not care about wasting that money. I honestly believe I can get 400hp out of this thing with hypers. There may be other stuff involved like big time head work, but to me it seems reasonable and feasible. yeah sure, I think you just lose a little of your margin for error. I don't think you lose much of your performance potential. I think other stuff would be breaking long before forged or hypereutectic pistons would fail from properly timed, properly mixed combustion events. now, from improperly timed, or improperly mixed combustion events they can both fail at VERY low power levels. I'd be interested to see just what new stock cast pistons would hold up to in a well tuned car. I don't think 300whp is unreasonable AT ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Pics of my home-made torque plate. Should be to you in a few days Tech! I threw in the Fel-pro head gasket that was only used once with this plate. It should be fine to use again. Good Luck with the rebuild! http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3081/torqueplate2mz8.th.jpg http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4962/torqueplate1dt8.th.jpg Edited January 5, 2009 by psu_Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Awesome! thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 When we built the truck motor it was our first mpi motor and it was purposely done with a stock bottom end, it was balanced but the crank wasn't even a hardened one and the pistons were old stock cast pistons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Performance builds are for mistakes for our engines. There's just not that much actual performance gain possible for mechanical changes in our engines. I probably lost performance by going to pauter rods. Those suckers are heavy. This isn't really directed at you Indiana, I know you know this stuff. But Technology talked about doing a performance comparison between stock, hyper U and forged pistons and I almost posted something similar then. Your surprise at a hyper u MPI car sealed the deal. No reason not to build a hyper U mpi, or even a stock rebuilt MPI car, IMHO. Really I agree with you on most of this but there is some fallacy in this statement I feel I have to point out (if only to defend my own investment in 'performance parts'...).. The stock parts are great for Stock power levels, and respecting the stock mechanical limits (Per Maximum Boost, my new bible), however.. Should you wish to build a motor that will live at 7500 RPMS's, or produce x factor above stock power output (say 100-200 horsepower over stock).. then you have to start using non-standard parts. True, Pauter rods are heavier, but paired with the correct parts, and assembled with at least the same attention to detail as the factory build it is very possible to build a durable high output powerplant. How do we know? Well, science. The problem occurs when we have mismatched parts, a poor assembly process or improper tuning (not to mention we are approaching the cliff when we try to 'tune to the edge' to milk every possible horse out of the gallon of fuel).. Not to point fingers at anyone, but I would bet at least 2/3s of the problems would be related to improper assembly or tuning. Think about it, whats the difference between Sakura G54B and the one you have? Assembly, attention to detail, and parts. (and tuning of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) Really I agree with you on most of this but there is some fallacy in this statement I feel I have to point out (if only to defend my own investment in 'performance parts'...).. The stock parts are great for Stock power levels, and respecting the stock mechanical limits (Per Maximum Boost, my new bible), however.. Should you wish to build a motor that will live at 7500 RPMS's, or produce x factor above stock power output (say 100-200 horsepower over stock).. then you have to start using non-standard parts. True, Pauter rods are heavier, but paired with the correct parts, and assembled with at least the same attention to detail as the factory build it is very possible to build a durable high output powerplant. How do we know? Well, science. The problem occurs when we have mismatched parts, a poor assembly process or improper tuning (not to mention we are approaching the cliff when we try to 'tune to the edge' to milk every possible horse out of the gallon of fuel).. Not to point fingers at anyone, but I would bet at least 2/3s of the problems would be related to improper assembly or tuning. Think about it, whats the difference between Sakura G54B and the one you have? Assembly, attention to detail, and parts. (and tuning of course). I don't really think you contradicted my post much. I completely agree that when you're shooting for the moon you want the internal components to be able to handle it, all the time, not just when everything goes perfectly (ie proper tune). And I also agree that there comes a point when stock internal components will not withstand even perfectly tuned power. Rods will bend, pistons will shatter. This will most likely not be heat related if you avoid improper tuning though. And it's pretty easy to agree I'm sure that these are NOT the kinds of failures we see around here most often. We see heat and timing related failures. We run too much boost on too crappy a tune and too low octane fuel and we complain about our crap engines like we don't deserve it. I should have said there are very few of us making power that requires a performance build. That doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of us for whom performance builds make good sense. I meant to say simply that once you've completed your performance build, and you're running it, you would do well to treat it like it's a stock build, because even performance parts should not be subjected to poor tuning and the abuse that comes with it. Guys (myself included back in the day) seem to get the feeling their forged pistons and shot peened rods can "take it", so they take risks they would never take on a stock engine. I was just saying that is not sensible. Edited January 6, 2009 by chiplee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) Tuning. No doubt mine was off. If it was pinging, I didn't hear it, and my knock sensor didn't pick any up, but I took it out of the block recently to get the thread size and pitch, and the wire is dangling by a few strands. It probably never got any voltage at all and "failsafed" at .02volts. If it does that. Either way, I'm having the stock hole drilled and tapped for a GM sensor. For The Win. Edited January 6, 2009 by Technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G54B3sgte Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/stealthedgt4/S6301038.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/stealthedgt4/S6301039.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/stealthedgt4/S6301040.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/stealthedgt4/S6301041.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/stealthedgt4/S6301042.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/stealthedgt4/S6301043.jpg yay i got it back from the machine shop ya ya ya Edited January 7, 2009 by G54B3sgte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Umm excuse me for asking but you have a block that shows no signs of being honed and the dowels are in the deck still so it wasn't cut? Was it just honed and decked recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G54B3sgte Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Umm excuse me for asking but you have a block that shows no signs of being honed and the dowels are in the deck still so it wasn't cut? Was it just honed and decked recently? keep up man lol no machine work was done i sent it in for a bath and to be checked for warping or cracking and i also had new freeze plugs installed if you have been following pictures since page one u would know why i sent it off for its bath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrodhendrix Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 keep up man lol no machine work was done i sent it in for a bath and to be checked for warping or cracking and i also had new freeze plugs installed if you have been following pictures since page one u would know why i sent it off for its bath Looks great. Where did you end up taking it and how much did they charge? My VR4 is done but it wont start lol. No spark and I cant figure out why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G54B3sgte Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Looks great. Where did you end up taking it and how much did they charge? My VR4 is done but it wont start lol. No spark and I cant figure out why. laynes machine right there in springtown at the old napa it might be a atv shop in the front but they are a machine shop in the back they charged me 50 bucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 laynes machine right there in springtown at the old napa it might be a atv shop in the front but they are a machine shop in the back they charged me 50 bucks Awful cheap price for hot tank and soft plugs, You said check for cracks, how did they do that? Powder mag or actual magnaflux with UV light? Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couth'nize Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Curious, I did not see dowel pin in the pic where the stud at? Was it stuck to the head? Also, the holes with cracks, was the studs in those hand loose or allen wrench snug? I'm not going anywhere with this...just observing. http://www.dsmstyle.com/photopost/data/529/DSC02458.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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