FlattopMike Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 You got a noid, right? That should plug into the injector wires and flash while cranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickkrmr Posted August 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 they dont flash while cranking, found the other wire for the + coil, didnt do anything, so it got to be something in the harness or the ecu, that would stop the firing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 if its not flashing, then you arent getting the pulse from the ECU for some reason or another. i dont recall, but, have you checked to see if the timing is correct while cranking, using a timing light on #1 plug wire to make sure that the coil is being commanded to discharge the spark? the reason i ask, is at some point you said you had spark, but i dont remember how you determined that. for all i know, you just touched two random wires together and they sparked =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 Go back and read mikec's post and verify everything he is telling you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickkrmr Posted August 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 i went over the post, i will be checking the ecu harness for any such pinching or ect. i have spark, i checked this with the spark plug out and held it to the engine or metal and the spark plugs were sparking, i have a constant 12 volts at the injector clip, not a pulsing voltage just a constant one while cranking. im thinking that the injectors are not getting grounded somehow, dont know, but your saying know it can only be that some were in the harness one of those cables are pinched or bad, because i doubt very much the ecu is bad, i know the ingitor box is good, i have two of them, by this can it be anything else other than a pinched wire in the harness, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 27, 2008 Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 on the intake near the lower vac port, the one below the inj houseing , is a 12mm bolt under this bolt is a major ecu ground wire, it has an larger connector aprox 5 inches from the end of the wire this plugs into the ecu harness,, some times it's for goten or dirty , if it is off the ecu will not fire the injs,, in all 11 yrs i have only seen maybe 3 ecus go bad and that was due to improper wireing nothing magical going on it's a simple electrical system , test for ign rpm signal to the ecu connector,, the injs do not see 12 volts,,the reason your meter is saying 12 volts is because no curent is being use'd ,,the inj resistor is a 6 ohm resistor it lowers the system volts to 6-7 volts while the engine is runing ,,a full 12 volts from the battery will burn up the inj internal windings,,, have you test'd the injs to see if they will fire manualy , you can use a 9 volt batt with wires solder'd on to it, and connect the 2 wires to the inj,, it should click and spray fuel as you touch the wires to the inj terminals , you can hear the fuel spray if the fuel pressure is up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickkrmr Posted August 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 the injectors are band new trilogy delphi injectors, they told me you cant check them that way, they are different from the origanal injectors, and that gound is pluged in, i also went over all harness in the car and there are no wires that are crimped or pinched, this sucks, so im narrowed down to ecu, or bad plug somewere, or bad ground, i been over everything 20 times already, frustrating, thanks for everyones help, if you can think of anything else , let me know, will try to clean all connections, , ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberquest Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 have you ever pulled the ovcp and had someone crank it while you peak in the TB to verify that they are spitting fuel while cranking. would be a good way to see what they are doing, maybe its not that they ARENT dumping fuel, maybe they are dumping TOO MUCH fuel. if you say they are getting a constant 12v that means they are wide open all the time like your at full throttle. you say they are trilogy injectors, have you reinstalled the stock ones to try? use this topic to guide you through the injector clip wiring to make sure you have them wired correct. http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=2187 have you verified that the TPS and ISC are set correctly? if not use this topic to correctly test and adjust those items. also have you checked the engine codes at all to see if they tell you anything? http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=907 there are many more useful topics covering other trouble areas of the car. if nothing else its a great way to gain good knowledge about the car. just follow the link in my signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 i have never seen an EFi inj that could not be test'd with a 9 volt battery . have you verify'd the main relay was working and sending power to the ecu , check tps and cts for 5 volt referance signal power ,that will tell you if the ecu is seeing power unplug the ecu and test each ground wire with a test lamp for a ground , you can find a connector pin out in the FSM , in the chaptor befor you get to the wireing part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrophage Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 He might have the wrong injectors, if hes getting fire-the car should at least sputter to start. But he should put the original injectors back to verify that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Cyberquest: 12V at the injector does not mean that it is wide open. You should get 12V at the injector any time the key is on. I'm still leaning toward the lack of a tach signal to the ECU. You said that you found a wire that wasn't connected to your coil and that you connected it. Are you sure that you connected it to the right post? Could any of the other wires be connected wrong? Are you using an MSD system? After you connected that wire, did your tach start jumping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 On the - side of the coil there should be a blue/white wire and a black wire. -you do need this small black wire and it comes from one of those filter things and its the one that is bare metal and the white wire from the filter plugs into your body harness with a clip type terminal sort of above the coil its sticking out that large sponge seal from the frame rail and its the body harness that passes through there On the + side of the coil there should be a black/white wire and a blue wire. -this blue wire you do not need or the small black wire that comes from the other end of it. This is a filter that goes from the coil passing through that filter and has a clip terminal on one end that clips to a short wire that fastens to the intake manifold and acts as a noise filtered ground and it bolts to the intake manifold at the egr valve originally but who knows where it could have been moved to if you still even have it like I said its not needed to run the car but you should keep it. A filtered ground for the throttlebody sensors is a good thing don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickkrmr Posted August 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 i will check the tps and ics, i did open the inake and looked in at the injectors will turning it over and nothing dry as a bone, i hate electrical stuff, got to be the tach signal, because it olny jumps a tiny bit when you turn the car to accessary, nothing esle, not while cranking, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberquest Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 (edited) if your injectors arent spitting while cranking i would go straight to testing the pump. there is a small black plug by the air box, its square and has a black wire with a white strip. that line is to run direct current to the fuel pump and bypass all your relays. run a jumper wire from that test port to the battery, now go around the the access panel over the fuel pump in the hatch. is the pump running, you just ran a jumper wire sending it straight current so it should be running. if its not then you might have found the problem. if it is running, reach in and see if it will start with direct current to it. use the link below to show you exactly where the test port is by the air box, and where to test in the hatch for voltage. if you havent already signed up to veiw the SOS MANUALS you really should, all you have to do is make a screename to be a member. there is no where else you can find step by step instructions other then the factory manuals themselves. if you dont have the factory manual you can us the SOS MANUALS to help guide you through ANY repair on this car, there is nothing you cant do yourself. look at this link to show you where the test port for the fuel pump is. http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=1031 now if you have the jumper wire hooked up and the pumps not running, get a volt meter and check the plug in the rear where the pump plugs in at. if you have a full 12v's plug the pump back in, if it still doesnt run try TAPPING it with a screw driver like you would a failing starter and that might make it kick on. i am having that problem with my 87 right now!!!! sometimes the pump works, sometimes it doesnt. when it doesnt work, i run the jumper wire to the test port and walk around and tap on the pump, and 9 times out of 10 it makes the pump start running again. i think mine has a flat spot on it, my buddy also has a 87 and his is doing the EXACT same thing as mine. Edited August 28, 2008 by cyberquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrophage Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 if your injectors arent spitting while cranking i would go straight to testing the pump. there is a small black plug by the air box, its square and has a black wire with a white strip. that line is to run direct current to the fuel pump and bypass all your relays. run a jumper wire from that test port to the battery, now go around the the access panel over the fuel pump in the hatch. is the pump running, you just ran a jumper wire sending it straight current so it should be running. if its not then you might have found the problem. if it is running, reach in and see if it will start with direct current to it. use the link below to show you exactly where the test port is by the air box, and where to test in the hatch for voltage. if you havent already signed up to veiw the SOS MANUALS you really should, all you have to do is make a screename to be a member. there is no where else you can find step by step instructions other then the factory manuals themselves. if you dont have the factory manual you can us the SOS MANUALS to help guide you through ANY repair on this car, there is nothing you cant do yourself. look at this link to show you where the test port for the fuel pump is. http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=1031 now if you have the jumper wire hooked up and the pumps not running, get a volt meter and check the plug in the rear where the pump plugs in at. if you have a full 12v's plug the pump back in, if it still doesnt run try TAPPING it with a screw driver like you would a failing starter and that might make it kick on. i am having that problem with my 87 right now!!!! sometimes the pump works, sometimes it doesnt. when it doesnt work, i run the jumper wire to the test port and walk around and tap on the pump, and 9 times out of 10 it makes the pump start running again. i think mine has a flat spot on it, my buddy also has a 87 and his is doing the EXACT same thing as mine. I ran a pemanent wire to this connector and put a industrial momentary switch inside to run the pump when needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted August 29, 2008 Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 Ok. Start on one side of the engine bay (Exhaust side) and work around. MAS sensor has to be plugged in (Although the car should have spark with this disconnected) By the Air can, on the front radiator support there is a silver box. IT has a connector. Make sure that is connected. The Fusible links each should receive 12vdc with the key on. Test each link for resistance (Should be .2 or less) Test each Fusible link port (connect a volt meter to each one one at a time. You should get 12fdc) Distributor hooks up to the harness with a 'bullet' connection (4 wire I believe) . this needs to be hooked up. Coil is 4 wires. On the + side of the coil there should be a black/white wire and a blue wire. On the - side of the coil there should be a blue/white wire and a black wire There is a Huge black wire on the harness, single spade connector connects to the lower manifold (intake). This is a Ground for the ECU. You need this. TPS connector (will run without it) ISC Connector (2 of them) Hard to mix up. Will run without it. Injector wires. Easy to mix up. I usually start by just connecting the primary to the black (Drivers side). I mark mine before removal. White dot on the primary injector and injector wire. Your TACH should bounce slightly while cranking. Check your fuses in car. Im betting on a missing ground connector or bad fusible link. Check everything on this list (print it if you need to ) and get back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickkrmr Posted August 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 ok i checked everthing and all is good except the tach does not do anything while cranking, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickkrmr Posted August 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2008 I ran a pemanent wire to this connector and put a industrial momentary switch inside to run the pump when needed. im getting feul pressure to the intake, just the injectors are not opening, and tach is not moving while cranking, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 nick, no tach signal usually points to a problem around the coil or the eci relay located above the ecu. Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agressivedsm Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Im having thia exact problem. Car was running fine then today nothing. I jectors have constant 12v. No pulse. If i ground an injector wire it will run. Tach moves fine. Injectors pulse if i ground them manually. Plenty of spark. Pump is new runs good. Pulled the fuel line to the intake and jumpered test wire to pump. Lots of fuel. Just no inj pulse. Did anyone ever figure this guys situation out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agressivedsm Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 From the coil is a blue wire. About six inches to a little black box. Off that box is a black wire with an enclosed spade connector. Nothing is attached to this wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's just a noise suppressor. Spade end goes to ground. Are you SURE you've got spark during cranking? If so then I'd replace the ECU, if not the coil and/or ignitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agressivedsm Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes i do. So now shes alive again but running extremely rich. Will not idle on her own. Under 2k rpm puffs black smoke and will not rev over about 4k in neutral or 3k under load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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