powerline84 Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Hey guys i am currently deployed to iraq and am gonna have a little extra change when i get back. I want a completely forged bottom end race motor short block capable of 400-500 horspower. I already have mpi/marnel head/18g/sds stand alone. I know that racetep sells one for 2500, but i have heard a lot of complaints on here. I kow there are a couple engine builders on this site...if you are out there can you please let me know how much i am looking at or who you recommend to build race engines on here. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 PM DAD, he should be able to help you out. I could actually build it, I just don't have the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laodicea Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Lose the 18g......stay away from TEP unless you like throwing away money....my build I am doing now should yield over 400hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yeah, 18g has its limits. ahh, go grab a new T3 exh. manifold and a Bullseye S256 extended tip turbo. Mine hit 352hp at only 15psi WITH a headgasket leak and non-working wastegate. Excited to retune it now with a sealing hg and get that wastegate to actually work. BTW, just call around to reputable engine builders in the larger cities near where you'll be and ask them if they have experience building a G54B engine. If they don't or have to look up what engine that is, you might want to move on to the next ph. # on the list. Get yours built with the balance shaft elimination kit also. Some of these guys sure seem to like their cranks knife-edged too. Thoughts to consider before building. Best of luck & thanks for serving our country!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) Buy your own parts!!! That way the engine builder (and or) machine shop doesn't mark them up on you. Thats what I heard from my engine assembler: "I'm not making s--t off the parts" TOO BAD!!! And heres the kicker: 50% of the top end was done by me, in his shop!!! (ARP Headstud torque, Rocker assembly, and Roller rocker clearance issues) Also, whoever does the rebuild. Make sure they do a balance on the rotating assembly. Buy the best parts, NO SHORT CUTS!!! I bought most of my parts from Top End Performance for my rebuild. Buying a complete, assembled bottom end from them??? I'LL PASS. (Buying parts is completely differant than buying a complete bottom end). After all, you don't do this sort of thing everyday!!!! CALIBER 308 Edited May 30, 2008 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) Some of these guys sure seem to like their cranks knife-edged too. A waste of money!!!! Stock crankshaft throws plenty of oil around. My oil pressure at idle is: 3/4 on the stock oil pressure gauge. So, am I getting enough oil thrown around without" Knife- Edgeing" my crankshaft?? Here we go: "We'll just shave a little material off your crank", Money spent. "And we will have to rebalance your crankshaft", More money spent!!!! Spend your money wisely!!! CALIBER 308 Edited May 30, 2008 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think you misunderstand the point of knife edging a crank Cal.. It has nothing to do with being able to throw more oil around, quite the opposite actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 kinfe edging a crank has 2 benifits, one is it reduces rotational mass, much like lightenign the flywheel. The other benifit is it makes the crank more aerodynamic, it cuts though the air like an airplane wing instead of a square bock of steel. this prevents oil from being scattered all over the crankcase, and reduces the drag induced by that oil clowd. It's a benifit to any build, but it's not cheap. There are other things that can be done with more benifit and less cost, but if you have already done those things, it's a nice mod to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 A waste of money!!!! Stock crankshaft throws plenty of oil around. My oil pressure at idle is: 3/4 on the stock oil pressure gauge. So, am I getting enough oil thrown around without" Knife- Edgeing" my crankshaft?? Here we go: "We'll just shave a little material off your crank", Money spent. "And we will have to rebalance your crankshaft", More money spent!!!! Spend your money wisely!!! CALIBER 308 Oh wow... I had to quote that one so you can't edit it...even though you already did. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcrasta Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) PM DAD, he should be able to help you out. HereYaGo :emot-bandwagon: Edited May 30, 2008 by Dcrasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) this prevents oil from being scattered all over the crankcase, and reduces the drag induced by that oil clowd. Chad, Show us some proof that it prevents more oil than the "unknifed" crankshaft from being thrown around the crankcase, and not just your word. Internal video of the crankcase would be nice. Backed up by a professional engine analysis of the difference, and the professional opinion of a certified expert in the field of crankshafts for the 2.6 lt engine. Thanks, CALIBER 308 Edited May 30, 2008 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Chad, Show us some proof that it prevents more oil than the "unknifed" crankshaft from being thrown around the crankcase, and not just your word. Internal video of the crankcase would be nice. Backed up by a professional engine analysis of the difference, and the professional opinion of a certified expert in the field of crankshafts for the 2.6 lt engine. Thanks, CALIBER 308 hahahahahaha epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 I know that I shouldn't get into this, but... Cal, next time you're in a swimming pool, do this. Attempt to cut through the water with the palm of your hand(totally flat, fingers extended), start with your arm/hand straight up and try to end the motion with your hand down by your knee. Now do the same thing with the edge of your hand like a karate chop. Which one proves to have much less resistance? Now, start with your hands at your knees and move them to the upward position from before. First, palms up and then "karate chop" style.. Which way throws more water around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 (edited) hahahahahaha epic! I'm not trying to be funny. Ever watch the fin on a surfboard? It intially moves the water out of the way, but creates a hell of a wake behind it. After all, where does the water go thats being cut through. Could it be off to the sides and the back of the fin?? So where is oil any different ? Its still being thrown around the crankcase. A members money could be better spent elsewhere. Some members on here give advice like your building a engine for a Top Fuel Dragster. lol. CALIBER 308 Edited May 31, 2008 by Caliber308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Your only digging yourself deeper... but it's hilarious so keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDX87Starion Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Personally I believe there are benefits, but for 99% of the SQ community I think its a waist...well not a waist, but money better spent elsewhere. When your crank spends a lot of its time between 5000 - 10,000 RPM's The arrow dynamics and rotational mass are a lot bigger issue. My 2.6 stays below 5000 99% of the time so I woulndnt spend the money to do that. But...I do like to see people (the right people. not nubes throwing money at everything) trying new stuff, and trying to improve on a design that was meant for a truck engine. Hows that for being on both sides of an issue. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Personally I believe there are benefits, but for 99% of the SQ community I think its a waist...well not a waist, but money better spent elsewhere. When your crank spends a lot of its time between 5000 - 10,000 RPM's The arrow dynamics and rotational mass are a lot bigger issue. My 2.6 stays below 5000 99% of the time so I woulndnt spend the money to do that. But...I do like to see people (the right people. not nubes throwing money at everything) trying new stuff, and trying to improve on a design that was meant for a truck engine. Hows that for being on both sides of an issue. LOL Agreed. And people said Caliber 308 and PDX87Starion would never agree on anything. lol. CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm not trying to be funny. Ever watch the fin on a surfboard? It intially moves the water out of the way, but creates a hell of a wake behind it. After all, where does the water go thats being cut through. Could it be off to the sides and the back of the fin?? So where is oil any different ? Its still being thrown around the crankcase. A members money could be better spent elsewhere. Some members on here give advice like your building a engine for a Top Fuel Dragster. lol. CALIBER 308 Ever watch a 2x4 cut though the water, what does the wake behind that look like? :thumbsup: Tell you what, If you really want, I'll setup my video camera and test in my kids pool with 3 boards. one stock 2x4, one "bull nosed" 2x4, and one "knife edged" (v-cut) 2x4. If I'm right that the knife edging causes less turbulance, you pay me for my time ($60 an hour BTW) and agree to be banned from this site. If I'm worng, you can ridicule me all day till the end of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Ever watch a 2x4 cut though the water, what does the wake behind that look like? :thumbsup: Tell you what, If you really want, I'll setup my video camera and test in my kids pool with 3 boards. one stock 2x4, one knife edged 2x4, and one v-cut 2x4. If I'm right that the knife edging causes less turbulance, you pay me for my time ($60 an hour BTW) and agree to be banned from this site. If I'm worng, you can ridicule me all day till the end of time. I'll agree with PDX87Starions assessment: 1% of the membership telling the other 99% of the membership how to go about doing things, they don't really need to do. CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Take a look at boalt hulls, are they squared flat surfaces like the crank counter weights are, or are they tapered? Arodynamics are the same as hydrodynamics, it's just different densities are at play. I already stated it was not a good investment for most questers, so dont' get on me about me-against-you because I agree it's not a good investment for most. I'm just debating your claim that it doens't work at all. As for a "specialist in crankshaft dynamics" use the search, there is an entier thread devoted to an article in turbo magazine, it was here: http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.p...70&hl=knife read the whole thread before you come back to debate teh topic further, please... Ask Castilio what he thinks if you dont' trust me... : http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0610turp...e/photo_01.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'll agree with PDX87Starions assessment: 1% of the membership telling the other 99% of the membership how to go about doing things, they don't really need to do. CALIBER 308 I siad basicaly the same thing, go read it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDX87Starion Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Agreed. And people said Caliber 308 and PDX87Starion would never agree on anything. lol. CALIBER 308 What? Who are these people? Who ever is saying that better stop, or me and cal will kick your a$$. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDX87Starion Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Now what would be cool is if after some testing someone like Dad could offer cranks with some knife edging and lightening nothing to extream but an improvement . Ohh who am I kidding they would still be way too exspensive. LOL Wait doesnt he have a bunch of caravan cranks sitting around? I could forgo the nitrate for some arrow dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Take a look at boalt hulls, are they squared flat surfaces like the crank counter weights are, or are they tapered? Arodynamics are the same as hydrodynamics, it's just different densities are at play. I already stated it was not a good investment for most questers, so dont' get on me about me-against-you because I agree it's not a good investment for most. I'm just debating your claim that it doens't work at all. As for a "specialist in crankshaft dynamics" use the search, there is an entier thread devoted to an article in turbo magazine, it was here: http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.p...70&hl=knife read the whole thread before you come back to debate teh topic further, please... Ask Castilio what he thinks if you dont' trust me... : http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0610turp...e/photo_01.html Looks to me like its good if you plan on running 7000 rpms all the time. I myself, and the majority of the membership on this site don't. Whats this about the mains suffering??? CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Cal, how about a member whose actually done this reports here to give his assessment? It's not about running high rpms. It's about inertia and resistance, both of which come into play right when you hit the skinny pedal. Gaining 2whp total is completely offset by spooling a real turbo 500rpms sooner(IE, more area under the curve), like a nice tubular header can do. Yet, who says a T4 header is a waste of money? Both the header and knife edging can cost roughly $500. Think about it.. Everyone either complains about our low revver, or they say that it's better this way. Ok, cool. Why not ensure more power/torque production LOWER in the rpm range? The high cost of performance parts being debated by someone who has spent $7000 on his motor seems a bit out of place, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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