heefner Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 I did some tuning on Friday mostly pulling fuel out of the top end and playing with the boost controller. All my runs were done on 93 octane pump gas. I didn't have time to play with timing so its still needs to be tweaked. I made a few runs at 30psi but forgot to print them out I was mostly concerned with air fuel. I still need to pull some more fuel out on the very top end I just ran out of time. I wasn't really planning on posting this but I figured it may show how well the "big ball bearing turbos" spool. I'm running the GT35r with a smaller comp wheel to get a better spool. It should be good up to 35psi or so and 550 crank HP. I plan on tuning my ignition table before I run more than 30 psi. I have a feeling there is some gains to be made with ignition since I'm able to run that much boost with pump gas. I'd like to make a bin file for race gas to use at the track with more boost and some more advance. Forth gear pull at 2500 rpm I had 5psi, by 3200 I had 14 psi and and once I got my AVC-r dialed in I saw 30 psi at 4150 rpm. Each gear hits boost a little different. It only gets to 24 psi at 6000 rpm in first gear, not that it makes much difference because anything over 4000 rpm shreds the tires. One other note, I'm currently running the stock rear (3.90) and the toyota tranny which gives me a taller final gear ratio (about 17% over stock). http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10088/355_392dyno.JPG This one is the same run as the first pic but with more detail. Air Fuel (black) on the left and Boost (green) on the right. Top three numbers 24 s6 and 28 psi. You can see how dependant the tq is on boost. This motor loves boost. the more you feed it the better it signs. http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10088/355_AF_Boost.JPG This is also the same run with torque (blue) on the left and EGT (orange)on the right (top 3 numbers 1470, 1510 and 1550). I never saw an EGT above 1600 and the probe was in the exhaust manifold about an inch from the head flange in runner number 4.http://www.26liter.us/gallery/albums/userpics/10088/392_tq_1552_EGT.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 355 on pump gas.... that rocks dude! I would take it all day long man. Shaping up nice Kris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questsi Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 That's looking good. This turbo looks like a winner for these cars. You went with the 82 Ar right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyTSI Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 what cam are you using chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 no .63 AR. I worked with Harry at Precision Turbo to get the right combo for street and strip. He suggested that the .83 AR would lag a few hundred rpm more than the .63. I think I have a 292 cam. EIP sold it to me as there stage 2 cam but no cam card. This was before I was smart enough to ask for specs. I was considering a cam from Tim but I want to drive it and see how it works on the track before I go dumping more coin into it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 The car is peaking at only 4900 rpms. will a larger ar help it peak at maybe 6000 rpms or do you not want to rev that high. Is 4900 rpm where it stops making power? BTW dont forget an external is essential. It will help guys running smaller ar bleed off back pressure and still retain excellent spool on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 The car is peaking at only 4900 rpms. will a larger ar help it peak at maybe 6000 rpms or do you not want to rev that high. Is 4900 rpm where it stops making power? BTW dont forget an external is essential. It will help guys running smaller ar bleed off back pressure and still retain excellent spool on the street. A different cam and a larger ar. would move the powerband up in the RPM but I see no reason too. The the sooner the power the better on the street IMHO, so I'm not really concerend with that. 4900 is where the HP peaks but it makes 300+ hp well past 6000 rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 The car is peaking at only 4900 rpms. will a larger ar help it peak at maybe 6000 rpms or do you not want to rev that high. Is 4900 rpm where it stops making power? BTW dont forget an external is essential. It will help guys running smaller ar bleed off back pressure and still retain excellent spool on the street. If your refering to Kris he's already got a decent sized A/R though... .63 is not small at all. An external WG won't help spool the turbo at all, it well help boost creep and/or spiking by not having a rush over of pressure that the WG can not release. I'd venture to say Kris didn't feel a need to rev it out that high this session, but I can't answer that for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 moving your power band will net higher HP figures. HP is TQ vs RPMs, increase RPMs with the same TQ, you get more HP. This also changes the streetability, and that is priority to Heefner so I understand the build choices. A larger AR will most definatly increase total output, but who wants to beat on a car at 8000 RPM like a Honda to make power :wink: To get that much power with such a low power peak is amazing in and of it self, must be really fun to street 8) Just curious, if the different headder made a difference, the port diamter is larger, and the runners are ~2" longer, but the runners are the same basic shape with the same degree of bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Mike's right. We weren't necessarily going for a high number dyno run to post for people to ooh and ahh at. The engine was heat soaked ( I had about 3 hours of tuning time start, stop, let sit for 5 minutes while I edit the bin file, make a pull... repeat) I saw no reason to make pulls past 6k this go round. Once I get it dialed in I may or may not make a pull worthy of getting excited about. I doubt I'll see 500 whp and since that mile stone has already been reached and exceeded it really wouldn't be any thing to post about any way. As for the wastegate I have a 40mm Tial external wastegate with an Apexi AVC-r boost controller. Once dialed in the system works flawlessly. When the turbo hits 30psi the car truly feels like its going to take off and fly... to the point that I'm now looking at break up grades rather than more engine/hp related upgrades. :oops: I'm sure this will subside once I get used to the additional power. :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyTSI Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 i absolutily agree man... the longer it takes the HP and torque for that matter to drop off after "peaking" is better not only on the street but at the track as well... a turbo car that holds power for the length of the "shift" is a good thing. Monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Mike's right. We weren't necessarily going for a high number dyno run to post for people to ooh and ahh at. The engine was heat soaked ( I had about 3 hours of tuning time start, stop, let sit for 5 minutes while I edit the bin file, make a pull... repeat) I saw no reason to make pulls past 6k this go round. Once I get it dialed in I may or may not make a pull worthy of getting excited about. I doubt I'll see 500 whp and since that mile stone has already been reached and exceeded it really wouldn't be any thing to post about any way. As for the wastegate I have a 40mm Tial external wastegate with an Apexi AVC-r boost controller. Once dialed in the system works flawlessly. When the turbo hits 30psi the car truly feels like its going to take off and fly... to the point that I'm now looking at break up grades rather than more engine/hp related upgrades. :oops: I'm sure this will subside once I get used to the additional power. :twisted: Kinda what I figured as that will be my approach too... dyno time is just that, for tuning. Not really into impressing anyone but myself anymore I guess. Like I said though.. I'm impressed this run around and your just starting. Kudos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Phil Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Im with you guys, Id prefer an early peak that carried a long way rather than a late peaky Supra type powerband. Dont know what happened to Kev_rm but this dynographs turn me on. http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTA3MjA4NzZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 The car is peaking at only 4900 rpms. will a larger ar help it peak at maybe 6000 rpms or do you not want to rev that high. Is 4900 rpm where it stops making power? BTW dont forget an external is essential. It will help guys running smaller ar bleed off back pressure and still retain excellent spool on the street. If your refering to Kris he's already got a decent sized A/R though... .63 is not small at all. An external WG won't help spool the turbo at all, it well help boost creep and/or spiking by not having a rush over of pressure that the WG can not release. I'd venture to say Kris didn't feel a need to rev it out that high this session, but I can't answer that for him. Not saying an external wastegate will help the turbo spool. It will relieve back pressure. so the smaller ar guys can keep their spool all the while getting as much top end as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 wow, very nice. btw, the dyno charts on top don't show anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Just curious, if the different headder made a difference, the port diamter is larger, and the runners are ~2" longer, but the runners are the same basic shape with the same degree of bends. Its hard to say since I went from a bastardized 20g to a larger ball bearing turbo and changed the inlet size of the intercooler from 2" to 2.5". Just seat of the pants driving I don't really feel like the car has any more lag than before. I'm also running the stock rear instead of the 3:90 right now so I would think that would magnify the lag even more. I really think this set up would not be performing as well with the SFP header as it does with the tubular header. Oh and Chad, you're right about the header turning a cream soda brown, I think its officially been broken in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Just curious, if the different headder made a difference, the port diamter is larger, and the runners are ~2" longer, but the runners are the same basic shape with the same degree of bends. Its hard to say since I went from a bastardized 20g to a larger ball bearing turbo and changed the inlet size of the intercooler from 2" to 2.5". Just seat of the pants driving I don't really feel like the car has any more lag than before. I'm also running the stock rear instead of the 3:90 right now so I would think that would magnify the lag even more. I really think this set up would not be performing as well with the SFP header as it does with the tubular header. Oh and Chad, you're right about the header turning a cream soda brown, I think its officially been broken in. That's what I've been saying too... the T4 I got isn't much further behind the 20G, and I had the same one as you Kris. Also you noticed you didn't lose anything getting those larger IC pipes in, that's all BS with the smaller pipes, lalala pressurizing more... lalala. So your new header is working out nice... that's great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 i think the fuel mixture is pretty good now, it looks to be right around 11:1 so its over 300 TQ and 300 TQ in a range of about 2000 rpms. i think something is in the way of the power continuing for another 1000 rpms. i would defintly look at timing and then cam. also what intercooler are you running? what does the intake temp sensor say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 currently the tq is over 300 at the wheels from ~3400 rpm to ~5800 rpm. HP is over 300 from ~4150 rpm to some where around 6300+ rpm. I'm running a large spearco intercooler. Intake temps while idling were about 135 and during pulls got down to 115 at about 12 psi and then up to 128 at full boost. I had a fan on the I/C and radiator but nothing blowing cool air into the air filter. Like I said earlier the engine was heat soaked and it certainly wasn't optimal conditions for a peak power pull. If memory serves me correctly I think my advance at idle is in the neighborhood of 36 degrees and WOT at 30 psi is about 21 degrees advance. I know the motor is only 7.5:1 comp which is why I'm able to run that much boost without detonation on 93 octane. I don't want to mess with the timing until I can get back on the dyno, I just don't feel comfortable doing it on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Not really into impressing anyone but myself anymore I guess. now if we could all just feel this way we'd all get along much better, you are really only in competition with yourself imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyTSI Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 That graph just doesnt look like a duration approaching 300 to me ( i almost wonder if the cam is 1 tooth late) i wonder what would happen if you bumped the cam a whole tooth advanced. i dont think it would effect the curve to much or raise the "sweet spot" too much above what its at now. If you have an adjutable cam gear you could always pull 5 degrees back out of it for a total of 10 degrees advanced compared to what you at now just trying to brain storm a bit... id take that curve all day long i just think if it peaks a bit later youll get more out of that gt35 i bumped my cam gear up a tooth on TBI and gained 10 HP and it actually flattened the curve a bit. (of course it ran like tail below 2000 rpm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'd love to see how Tims mech cam would run on your setup Kris. I can't say enough good about that cam, it just runs A-1 with the T4... had it up twice to 7200 and it wasn't an effort. I went 1* retarded on my cam timing BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Heefner, Do you have aftermarket rods? also what pistons? what did you have to do for the toyota transmission to fit or what's it out of? and most important to me, what type of dyno was this on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smog Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 11:1 seems quite rich. lean out a bit and you should see even more power. not a bad looking dyno at all though. You should be able to get that thing to spool a few hundred rpms faster from the dyno graphs I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 remember that dyno tunning is not an exact science. I think I'll err on the side of caution and at this point. I would rather loose 10hp and 1 mpg then risk rebuilding the bottom end due to detonation and melt down. If it were a track only car I would go 12:1 across the board but since this car sees street duty and there is alway the possibilit of getting crappy gas I don't want to risk it. I'm using stock rods bushed for full floating pistons, shot peened and cryo'd, and ross racing pistons (EIP custom design). For the tranny I had to purchase an Australian bell housing and adapter plate as well as fab up a crossmember mount, drive shaft and slave cylinder mount. The runs were made on a Mustang 1725 dyno. Dyno jet numbers would have been higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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