Honda MPI for Starquest

[YELLOWHELL]

Guys I've had a couple of daily drivers that are hondas. I've also been looking at the PGMFI.org website and have come to the conclusion that the cheapest engine management system for our cars would be to convert the honda SOHC system to suit the conquest. The software to data log and alter the ecu is all free. The only parts you need cheap. Here's the short list...

 

ECU -pm6 from the MPI 1.5L sohc civic or crx

Distributor from the same car*has a cam angle sensor built in

Map Sensor

Throttle position sensor or just use the honda t-body 60MM on the H series motors

Knock sensor

Air intake temperature sensor

Injector Resistor box

O2 sensor from the same car

Idle air control valve

Wiring harness from the same civic or crx

 

I think all these items could be purchased for under 200.00 Mate that to a Magna intake and either dyno time or buy a wide band and laptop.

 

I see the main hurdle as the base map or the ecu program that would actually get us started. The good thing about the honda stuff is availability. The other good thing is the information is all over about programming the ecu so it should be relatively simple.

 

What do you guys think??

[Minagera]

i would lliike more information

[Low White N Boosted]

hell no i would rather spend more money than put something from a honduh on my car

[Minagera]

hell no i would rather spend more money than put something from a honduh on my car

 

lol you are funny.

[Richie_Rich]

I could give a hoot where the ECU comes from as long as it's cheap(This sounds pretty cheap) and it works well.

 

If you can get some good info for what cars models and years to pull all the stuff from, I may check it out.

I have a Magna that needs to be modified.

[charlie31603]

If you want cheap just get a megasquirt for $160 and build it your self. Then go to the junkyard and get some sensors. But I do like the how you think though. Some of the best ideas are out of the box. I remeber shelby using a volvo system on his truck the first time around for mpi. But can we use the hondas vtec also. lol. Adam :-)

[Indiana]

according to what I was told last weekend from someone that has this and does it to hondas in jackson center, ohio, once you get the ecu, you are looking for a 91-92 crx pm6-a09 I believe and you get a chip for about $1 and the socket to burn it, $45 and the software is free, ya an ecu is an ecu for all anyone knows mitsu sold it to honda, certainly less expensive than the dsmlink but the dsmlink you can change with a laptop anywhere anytime, the honda you reburn a NEW chip everytime you want any changes at all

[jinx]

intersting idea. Sorta similar to the dsm ecu on the 2.6

Somebody on the nissan ca18 forum looking to do the same. Dunno if its worth it tho, as ca18 ecus are already being hacked via free software.

Some thoughts...

Isn't knock sensor tuned to cylinder bore diameter ? Also, I wonder if timing chain 'noise' would be a factor.

Is there some problem with honda distributors ? Quite often folks buy em up from the importers, while all other motors still have theirs. Its a big clmsy unit too, isn't it (vs "adapting" a ca18 or dsm CAS) ?

Megasquirt is hard to beat

[YELLOWHELL]

Well you guys bring up good points I'll try to give my logic.

 

When compared to dsm link or the nissan ecu's I would choose honda for the simple fact there is much more free software and information available.

 

About the vtec , no we couldn't use it because there's a third lobe on the camshaft that is used on vtec engines. we don't have the mechanical parts we need to operate it.

 

Shelby did this with the volvo setup and this is what got me thinking.

 

Indiana, the 91 crx was the last year. 92-96 had the del sol. I would stay away from vtec ecu's because we don't need that function. The pm6 ecu is one of the ecu's that can be used. So can the ecu's from the ls/gs integra's from 87-96.

 

Basically if the ecu came from 91 or before it is OBD-0 or Pre-OBD

OBD= On Board Diagnostics.

If the ecu is 92-96 it's OBD-1

96-up OBD-2

 

Here's the thing about the megasquirt. WHen compared to the Honda setup there's simply more support for honda stuff. Megasquirt is a viable option but I can have a complete setup for 200.00 not just the assembled computer. Another thing I like about the honda setup is spark control is built it. You can retard timing or advance it however you like. You can also trim injectors to have a complete tune. I'll post a screenshot for some of the free software.

 

Good question on the knock sensor, and to be honest I don't know. WHat I do know is you can remove the need for a knock sensor with a code change on the honda ecu. True the burner for the chips on honda's will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 50.00 there is an alternative.. you can have the ecu setup for on the fly changes via laptop.

 

I have one complete setup from a civic already and I think I'm going to give this a shot. I have a spare 87 wiring harness from a quest that I'll use to alter for the honda ecu. What I need is the PInout of the starquest ECU. The 88 would be the best because that's the car I'll be using. I already have the pinout of the honda ecu. Maybe I should post pics of the parts and a good solid list.

 

John

[kev_rm]

Yes, the code and/or hardware that detects knock is tuned to filter for different engine background frequencies, but the a knock sensor loop is not mandatory, particularly if it's a tunable system.

[TopDawg_43]

From what I've read so far, you have all the software issues taken care of. Now what about the hardware. Are you sure that, that dist. will fit in a G54B head? Does it turn the same way as one on a SQ (CW or CCW)? Will the teeth in the gear fit up well to the the one on the motor? If it doesn't it will either chip a tooth, quick working (may jump time and ka-boom). Or grind each other to death, and of course quit working.

 

 

And you are definatly going to need a WB O2 sensor. You'll be shooting blind without it.

[Boosted_One]

I think the best bang for the buck would be to use a turbo DSM system.

 

Would integrate very well.

 

When its said and done though a lot of folks tend to comment how it would have been cheaper and easier just going to an aftermarket...

[YELLOWHELL]

After looking at the parts involved I decided to see how hard the "Tough" piece would be fitting the distributor. After some fabbing I was able to connect it to the lower portion of the stock distributor all I have left is to weld the adaptor flange. Another good reason I should just buy a mig.

[xtremeboost2]

all i can say is good luck alot of my honda buddys did the chip s**t idea but it was always f**king up also dont plan on boosting past 6 pounds because the stock map sensor wont read past 6. if u are going to take this honda ecu track use a piggyback off the ecu then chipping

 

just my 2 cent

[bshade]

Ok Yellow, I want any info and pics you can give me. I have a budie whos is Honda hard core and he said about building a MPI. I want to know what to use for the distrib signal and stuff like that. He has the burner and all the stuff. I would also be building my own intake manifold to fit a probably a camaro throtel body. But please any info you can give me would be very much aprechiated. I will start this roling with my freind and see what he says. He is right now tuning his GF's car that he just turboed. Its a del-slow and there running 9PSI and still haveing some lean to rich issures. He has the wide band and the laptop and everything to set up and tune. So if I can be of any help let me know. And did you get the distrib to work at all? I would be willing to try and make one my self, but you could make some money from this is you get your working and can build me a distrib. I think that would be the hardest part.

 

Brad

[MrBoost]

why would you use Honda stuff instead of Mitsu stuff? It would be much easier to use DSM parts...at least the way it works in my head...

[D_Venable]

you are looking for a 91-92 crx pm6-a09 I believe and you get a chip for about $1 and the socket to burn it, $45 and the software is free

 

Derek

[bshade]

Honda is far more tunable than the DSM comp and injection. Also Honda does not use a MASS that constricts it uses a MAP. Just the Honda chip itself is so much better. It utilizes the system so much better and precise. I think we could use the V-teck signal for something. Perhaps a two stage boost controller. Set it so it comes on at about 4000 rpm and when it does activates the modified stock boost solenoid to run higher boost. But there are other possibilities, I deff want to have the V-tech model so I can explore my options.

[xtremeboost2]

I think we could use the V-teck signal for something.

 

ur joking right?

[bshade]

I think we could use the V-teck signal for something.

 

ur joking right?

 

No, Other Stand alone computers give you outputs to use for things like shift lights, fan relays, even boost controllers. I don't mean use V-teck, I mean use the signal from it. It is just a voltage output on one of the wires on the harnes. With the software I have seen you can set what RPM you want it to come on. So you set it to 9000RPM's and make it your shift light.

[conquestpa]

I dont think the 2.6 with balance shafts will like doing 9K RPM...

 

[bshade]

I dont think the 2.6 with balance shafts will like doing 9K RPM...

 

 

Once built that is what I would like to see, no balance shafts. I have been told it is possible. But mabey not. But yes that is mostly a joke. The 9K part

[EXCELR8]

Yes let us know what you find out Yellow.Ihave all the intake parts and computer stuff to do the conversion (just changed my honda from obd0 to obd 1 so I can tune it with a program called chrome),has anyone heard of the chrome program? I've played with it but toasted my clutch on my third run on the dyno.If this will work I can use the same program for both cars.

[jdm_ef9412]

The best ecu from honda to use is a p-72 from a 95 gsr integra and distributor and a h series throttle body iacv and air temp sensor the gsr comp reads a knock sensor no 88 to 91 comp from crx, civic hatch reads that ....

some good honda comps ........

p-28 vtec no knock sensor 92 to 95 year civic ex, si sohc

p-30 vtec reads knock sensor 94 to 95 year delsol twin cam

p-72 vtec reads knock sensor 94 to 95 year twin cam integra

p-r4 non vtec comp no knock sensor 94 to 95 year twin cam

the rest are not so good......

[redleader36]

I would have to agree with yellowhell. I have chipped both dsms and hondas. I would have to say there is a lot more information available on honda ecus. True the honda map sensors can only read like 1-2 psi, but chipping them allows you to plug in a gm map sensor or a motorola map sensor that can read from like 1-3bars. The guys at dsm-ecu yahoo group have not had that much success with replacing the stock mafs with maps let alone the gm or ford mafs. Also from what i have learned, the stock honda knock boards are crap and not worth it. If the knock boards are still needed i think it is quite easy to add one as a daughterboard. The vtec solenoid wire can be used to control whatever you want at whatever rpm you want (shiftlight, nitrous, boost, etc).With the honda ecus you can even turn a solenoid into an electronic boost controller with a whole 'boost table' based off of the map sensor. very cool.

 

Most importantly, be it a dsm ecu or a honda ecu, i have found a cheap a** alternative to a $50 eprom burner that will handle 29c256s. It uses a linux computer with a 3com network card and a hacked hardware driver. you just pop a blank chip in the bootrom socket of the network card and start up the computer. You use a program called vortex-diag to burn an image to the eprom. I have sucessfully done this on a 1994 talon and a 1999 civic si (b16) and a 1996 civic dx (d16y8). Here is more info http://esm.logic.net/public/dsm/ecu-flashing.html

 

The kit for chipping a honda ecu is like $18 after shipping from moates.net This includes zif socket, blank eeprom, and even a datalogging port. To datalog all you need is a $15 nokia usb cable off of ebay, cut the nokia end off and wire it into the ecu.