New World Order is upon Us

[Shelby]

I'm totaly lost for words on this Assad thing , this like telling the theater shooter give us you guns and we'l for give you for killing all those inocent people wt....

 

we all know this isn't gona fly ,, once the UN says he used chemical agents against the people,

he'l be charged with war crimes ,,then what do we do

 

talk about sending the wrong message to any terriorest in the world we just did , do what you want the US isn't gona do any thing we are afraid of upseting Russa ,,, our allies just got the same message

 

not intending to start any flame throwing or arguments but i felt i had to say some thing

[Walker]

i still haven't seen any proof that assad did this....all i've seen is the same "assurances" we had against saddam....which was nothing more than "we have teh proofs but we can't show you!!! you have to trust us!!"

 

 

and even if we did have proof....the US isn't the world's watchdog....

 

and we don't seem to learn from history with what happens when you arm and train a terrorist rebel group...a group where some people think it's ok to cut out a person's organ and eat it

 

 

is it sad that people are dying? yes.....is it sad innocent children are dying? yes.... but we have no business getting involved in a civil war

 

 

 

p.s. i've seen articles that report that the rebels also have a small pile of chemical weapons that they have used on at least 1 occasion,,,

Edited September 15, 2013 by Walker

[TexasQuest]

Tired of the US getting involved in other peoples messes. Do we have to be Team America World Police? Yes I said it.

[Guest]

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You weigh the outcomes vs. the evil taking place and go from there. There is no "win" in such a situation.

[Shelby]

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You weigh the outcomes vs. the evil taking place and go from there. There is no "win" in such a situation.

 

yes you are right , but this is leting all countrys know for positive that they have nothing to fear , even if they use atomics ,

why because NO ONE can Prove who did it ,

.

for example god for bit lets say tomarrow morn vegas is turnned into a sea of glass , what would we do about it ,, in a word NOTHING because we can not prove who did it , it's 9/11 all over again , 12 years later we still have no positive proff who did i

 

A country that can't even provide even the simplest items made, built or grown in it''sown country has no chance of surviveing for long , history has proven that many times over ,,,why can't our government understand that or have they already gave iour country away to the highest bidder and haven't gotten arround to teling us

that has to change

[Walker]

if someone were to turn vegas into glass and there was no way to prove who did it....you can bet your sweet quest that it would be absurd to act out of hastiness until the facts are known.....because once you start indiscriminately retaliating with nukes....well....that's when human's get wiped out

 

 

but let's say your point is valid...that doing nothing empowers other crazy's to use wmds.....

 

look how many times in modern history that chemical/biological/nuke weapons have been used..... it's quite a few times..... and even killing the pyschos that did it ultimately did nothing....because there was always some other pyscho to come along and not give a crap and use them anyways....

 

 

now something to consider about your anger at us not responding.....let's say we throw some missile strikes at assad...it gives the rebels the upper hand....a large faction of these rebels being al queda mind you... the rebels win out and capture or kill assad essentially overthrowing him....

 

what happens to the stockpile of chemical weapons? here is what ....many are taken over by islamist extremists who take control...the rest come up missing and are funneled away on the black market becoming a very serious threat on any country some random noob has a grudge against....

 

 

having the stockpile turned over to UN control is a much much much better outcome all around....

Edited September 15, 2013 by Walker

[ucw458]

yes you are right , but this is leting all countrys know for positive that they have nothing to fear , even if they use atomics ,

why because NO ONE can Prove who did it ,

 

 

 

http://www.gifflix.com/files/65d127034d78.gif

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5e/GlossuRabban-1984.jpg/230px-GlossuRabban-1984.jpg

Edited September 15, 2013 by ucw458

[Shelby]

if someone were to turn vegas into glass and there was no way to prove who did it....you can bet your sweet quest that it would be absurd to act out of hastiness until the facts are known.....because once you start indiscriminately retaliating with nukes....well....that's when human's get wiped out

 

 

but let's say your point is valid...that doing nothing empowers other crazy's to use wmds.....

 

look how many times in modern history that chemical/biological/nuke weapons have been used..... it's quite a few times..... and even killing the pyschos that did it ultimately did nothing....because there was always some other pyscho to come along and not give a crap and use them anyways....

 

 

now something to consider about your anger at us not responding.....let's say we throw some missile strikes at assad...it gives the rebels the upper hand....a large faction of these rebels being al queda mind you... the rebels win out and capture or kill assad essentially overthrowing him....

 

what happens to the stockpile of chemical weapons? here is what ....many are taken over by islamist extremists who take control...the rest come up missing and are funneled away on the black market becoming a very serious threat on any country some random noob has a grudge against....

 

 

having the stockpile turned over to UN control is a much much much better outcome all around....

 

you missread my words i was not expressing anger , but fustration , our red line turned into a blured smudg

and yes one crazy will always be replaced by another but that does not mean you give up

 

and the UN is a joke , nothing like it once was

[Walker]

the red line should have never been drawn.....the president is arrogant....is it really ok to risk american sons and daughters getting drawn into another country's civil war so some arrogant fool can save face?

 

 

if there was truly an international red line....and concrete proof that that line had been crossed and by whom....and it was acted on by a real international partnership....then perhaps.....

 

but all the other countries that were gung-ho to go in aren't convinced either... so the evidence is flimsy and the people aren't buying into the rhetoric

 

 

and i agree...the UN is a joke .....but part of the reason is because we ignore their rules....but expect other people to follow them

 

 

that's not a good way to promote legitimacy....and all thing's being said...i'd prefer the UN to not be our or another country's puppet

 

 

 

 

p.s. i appreciate this discussion....i suspect it's one that is being played out across the country

Edited September 15, 2013 by Walker

[vbrad511]

Shelby, I see your points, we're on a non-winning path, but I agree with Walker on this. First off, it's not our place to be "police of the world". Look how Iraq turned out (is STILL turning out). No WMD's found, which is the ONLY reason the scared population of the USA let Bush invade in the first place. And it's constantly still under attack from within. Places still getting bombed, people still dying in numbers. No progress there at all, just regime-change. And yes, "scared". We were still gunshy from 9-11. 9-11, BTW that nobody will EVER convince me wasn't pulled off by our own government. Buildings don't fall straight down without oodles of planning and properly placed charges.

Second, how long have they been in the midst of this conflict in Syria? How many innocent people have died through gunfire, or rpg's? I'd bet ten's of thousands, so we're ok to get involved, but only when we don't like HOW they're killing each other?

I'm not lacking compassion, and I feel for people suffering anywhere, but we've got too many problems at home, and not enough money to fund things like medical care for our seniors and vets, to be borrowing more to launch an assault at anybody who isn't directly affecting us.

If you had a neighbor whose family you only liked occasionally, would you feed his kids and let your own go hungry? That's what we're doing.

Edited September 15, 2013 by vbrad511

[BrazilBoy]

Assad is Hezbollah and a branch of Iran...

 

The "rebels" who thus far have eaten the heart of a Syrian soldier on video, decapitated a preist, dismembered a 10 year old Christian girl alive, promised to kill all Americans in the name of Allah are AL QUADA....

 

These "moderate" claims by Kerry are simply false as the evidence proves otherwise...

 

Obama said the term "Red Line"...but like all of his foreign policy, its amateur hour... Obama is trying to save face and distract from all the scandals going on..

 

Also many in the military don't trust the administration as they left good men to die in Benghazi...

[kidjc]

Shelby, I see your points, we're on a non-winning path, but I agree with Walker on this. First off, it's not our place to be "police of the world". Look how Iraq turned out (is STILL turning out). No WMD's found, which is the ONLY reason the scared population of the USA let Bush invade in the first place. And it's constantly still under attack from within. Places still getting bombed, people still dying in numbers. No progress there at all, just regime-change. And yes, "scared". We were still gunshy from 9-11. 9-11, BTW that nobody will EVER convince me wasn't pulled off by our own government. Buildings don't fall straight down without oodles of planning and properly placed charges.

Second, how long have they been in the midst of this conflict in Syria? How many innocent people have died through gunfire, or rpg's? I'd bet ten's of thousands, so we're ok to get involved, but only when we don't like HOW they're killing each other?

I'm not lacking compassion, and I feel for people suffering anywhere, but we've got too many problems at home, and not enough money to fund things like medical care for our seniors and vets, to be borrowing more to launch an assault at anybody who isn't directly affecting us.

If you had a neighbor whose family you only liked occasionally, would you feed his kids and let your own go hungry? That's what we're doing.

 

SHhhhh... Remember, buildings falling "straight down" w/o precise help, alleged closed prior stairway work, or alleged video charge burnings & smoke: it's a secret, SHhhh... remember the "Warren Report?" Reflect... it's simply not our need to know the truth? I think it best said: The bigger the lie... the easier to sell it as truth.

Ask yourself, ask others, does the American People "Really want the truth?" Something that may disrupt their everyday lifestyle, cause unrest, a disruption, or yet a crash to their pattern of survival, get ahead lifestyle? We listen to untruths (the political verbiage for lies) spewed from every direction, yet we allow them to continue to flow, even settle on believing them, then rationalizing them as truth; we're too busy within our own little worlds to really do anything about it, just try'n to get by, or just try'n to acquire more, or just try'n to have it all?

 

Discussion is great, it's good, but where does it actually lead? A venting process; wonderful, maybe I feel better now? What can you... or I actually accomplish with the truth is often chanted, I don't have the answer. With that, thanks for your time & attention, & the best to all who try to make a difference!

[D3UC3S]

I agree with Walker as well. These people have been fighting since the beginning of time. Who are we to step in and police them and their actions against their own people. They didn't do it to us so who cares....

 

We have parts of the country that are so poor they don't even have indoor plumbing or the ability to read and write. This is what we should focus on fixing. Not some crazy radical Islamist civil war and psychotic leaders punishment for killing his own people. If they do it to us, then game on. Everyone grab your guns, hide your family's, and put on a gas mask.

[DieHARDmitsu.]

Some of these wars we've gotten ourselves into don't seem to serve our deepest interests; that of " we the people." There is huge divide within the land when it comes to the issue of war.

 

Its bad when your homeboy picks a fight with the kids on his street then call you out to be the front man each time.

Edited September 15, 2013 by DieHARDmitsu.

[89PalermoSHP]

When will people open their eyes to the fact that we only invade countries to plunder their natural resources and give the rebuilding contracts to close associates. It has ZERO to do with anything remotely humanitarian. George Bush should be held accountable for what he has done to this country and this world. He is a lying, self-serving weasel and unfortunately only one name on a long list. They don't give two craps about us, why the heck would they care about someone halfway across the world.

[creakyjoints]

When will people open their eyes to the fact that we only invade countries to plunder their natural resources and give the rebuilding contracts to close associates. It has ZERO to do with anything remotely humanitarian. George Bush should be held accountable for what he has done to this country and this world. He is a lying, self-serving weasel and unfortunately only one name on a long list. They don't give two craps about us, why the heck would they care about someone halfway across the world.

 

Politicians are professional liars. There STANCE changes on the wind of public opinion. They are not leaders. There politicians.

Edited September 15, 2013 by creakyjoints

[vbrad511]

89, you pretty much hit the nail on the head there ^^^.

[D3UC3S]

Yep, couldn't agree more

[Shelby]

it's hard to beleave that people STILL beleave that ONE man can do all this ,guys it's not your president that is your enemy

in all things

let me ask you DID

Obama ,,trade your jobs for foreign gov favors no that was done years ago

did he give away all your manufactoring ,,no done long time before he got in the white house

make it nearly imposible to buy any thing MADE or Built in the united states of america ( sept for babys )

and was he the one that SOLD off almost ALL your national oil supplys , nope and i do not recall ever being asked if it was ok to sell off ALL rights to our countrys natural resourses , i was always under the asumption that a countrys natural resourses belonged to the people of that country not some senator, congressman or oil company

did he alone send all our manufactouring to some foreign country ,closeing down nearly all small bussines's ,,

did he close almost all of our iron and alum foundrys ,,don't think so

the president of the United States does what he is told to do , he is hand picked , sure you think you have a choice in who you elect but in truth is don't matter who you pick,, they are ALL chosen because they are controlable .

 

your real enemy is your government officals that have sold their souls to big coorperations in exchange for $$$

most of this all started many years ago before most of you were even born ,Nixion, Johnson, Bush

all sold this country out to the highest bidder . How could they do this , well the truth is they could do it because of guys that say what can ONE man do , if it don't directly effect me i could care less ,,ONE man can do any thing he sets out to do if he realy wants to do it,, it took ONE WOMEN to remove prayer from schools , it did not take millions of people to STOP the saying of the pledge of alegiance to the american flag in our shool rooms each morning .

ALL it took was a bunch of uncareing fools that beleaved no one would be so stupid to be able to do these things and not SPEAK UP and say NO

 

ALL it took was stoping the DRAFT,, most have no idea the real purpous of drafting your young people to serve their country for a couple of years ,it took young people with no idea of what to do with their lives , young people with NO pride in them selves or their country , young men that did not know their own capability , and gave thewm a foundation to build a life a country , a world that they could be proud of , all most can think of is ,, if i join or get drafted i will be killed . yes that can happen but you can also be killed walking your own street , driveing to work, let me ask you what would make you feel safer walking your own street with 8 other guys that would lay down their own life for you in an instant each armed and trained to be amoung the finest firghting force in the world

or your budy that makes a liveing selling drugs to kids just like yours but thats ok cause they are not your kids

you may say i have a problem with people that use drugs,, no i don't but i do have a problem with people that go blindly thru their life with their head stuck in the sand thinking it will all go away if they look the other way

 

is it worth it to learn what your country stands for and what liveing in this country means ,the answer to that is simple just ask any of our members that are servering or have served our ,NO THEIR

country what they think

 

i gave 3 years to this country ,at a time when your chances of being killed were the highest they have been sence this country was founded ,, was it easy NO ,would i do it again YES , would i take a million $ to not have served , NO WAY

 

i'm done probly said more then i should have ,but not nearly all i ahve to say on the subject

 

 

[89PalermoSHP]

Ill answer you simply, Shelby, it takes more than one clown to make a circus bu there is always a ringleader. The Pres is just a puppet for the behind the scenes people who have the real power (ie money).

 

Watch Zietgeist...

[Walker]

guys it's not your president that is your enemy

 

 

 

 

he did continue and expand Bush era warrantless mass spying programs on the US people....he sure acts like an enemy....and he surely treats every american like they are an enemy

 

i too served and it would make me ecstatic if we acted like the america we preach about.......but the govt has twisted what we stand for into something unrecognizable....we use to stand for freedom and rights...

 

in the last 13 years we've lost all of that because the govt has the people so afraid of the terrorist boogey man that they ,at least for a time, forgot how we should behave

Edited September 15, 2013 by Walker

[Shelby]

 

 

 

he did continue and expand Bush era warrantless mass spying programs on the US people....he sure acts like an enemy....and he surely treats every american like they are an enemy

 

i too served and it would make me ecstatic if we acted like the america we preach about.......but the govt has twisted what we stand for into something unrecognizable....we use to stand for freedom and rights...

 

in the last 13 years we've lost all of that because the govt has the people so afraid of the terrorist boogey man that they ,at least for a time, forgot how we should behave

 

you didn't have to tell me you had served i picked up on that by your coments ,, and lets be honest Obama just now found out how little power he does have ,,asking for perminsion was the worst thing he could have done , he actualy cut his own balls off , right thing to do or not he would have shown the world he had a pair and was not afraid to use them but it's way past that now

Assad knows he's won even the UN won't have the balls to endite him on war crimes now

 

our bigest problem now is Israel , some one bombs them or gas's them what do we do , we have a sworn agreement to stand by them no matter what

 

the latest happenings have guarranty'd we will be in another war.

[Fuze]

I'm not jumping into the deep end, but all wars are bankers' wars. Ancient Greeks, who our system of justice is based, had a basic principle in every case. "Qui Bono"--"Who profits? Private central banks, multinational corporations, and the Military Industrial Complex. Presidents are figureheads, they are a piece of paper in front of the real power. Whenever war is being sold, perspective is key. As for not asking Congress, Congress is supposed to represent the will of the people, and the majority of the people don't want another war. Beware presidents who shirk that responsibility, it's what dictators do.

[Shelby]

c/p As for not asking Congress, Congress is supposed to represent the will of the people, and the majority of the people don't want another war. Beware presidents who shirk that responsibility, it's what dictators do.

 

couple things you missed,,the congress did not give a red line warning

and secondly most americans have vertialy no idea what is going on nor do they care unless it in some way may involve them

 

many of us base what we think and know from what we learn from the internet , that alone can lead to false asumptions ,. for example take all the people you know personaly how many of those actualy do more then play on facebook or what be it tweeter or what ever it's called , most don't even bother to read the news .

i can safely say NOT counting any friends i may have on here i can't think of more then 5 or 6 people out of every one i know that actualy uses the internet , now that is not a huge % of people to

use to make any real basis for saying what the real public opnion is or if it is of any importance

to the real world

 

i'm not saying that my opnion is worth more then yours or Susie homemaker , what i'm saying is how informed are their opnions ,, no one is ever for going to war , in my life time i have only saw one time and that was right after 9/11 that that the majority of people were in suport or said they were and that only lasted for a short time

and over half my life time we have been in a major war some place or other

[Shelby]

c/p this one i realy love

Congress is supposed to represent the will of the people,

 

 

dang i didn't know most people wanted to move all of our manufactouring to foriegn countrys,,

i didn't know that selling 90% of our oil reserves to other countrys was the will or for the good of the people , i bet most have no idea that we do not own a single shiping port in the country

the only people that congress suports is that 2% with all the money