Head Porting - Worth it?

[Funky Phil]

Are those "your" numbers or just ones you ripped from T-racing? yeah, thought so. I have plenty of my own numbers and from multiple heads with various levels of work done to them. You can claim whatever you want, but its all unfounded BS. ewww your motor has survived 7000rpm more than once! Thats just stupid. Mine passes 7000rpm regularly. What does that have to do with anything. You constantly brag about that like its a milestone. You still preach the same crap you have for years and thank goodness no one listens. Otherwise all the MPI cars would have backwoods hogged out heads that they dropped a grand on and still make under 300whp with a td05 turbine.

 

I know what krazed was doing when flowing the heads because I used the same type of flowbench when we worked my last head.

An M28 that pulled 220 @ .4

 

how bout that, there it is!

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh538/sqperformance/Funkytoon/flowbench_2_890_zpsc706be79.jpg

 

Cal, you dont know what your lookin at since you have prolly never actually tested you backporch dremel work. Thats a flowbench.

 

 

[Shelby]

 

 

Shelby......Those are not HIS numbers, their Krazed Zs from 2005, just something he read and believed to be accurate

 

Bill

 

still not what I asked,, any number recived will be directly effected by the force used

even using a vacuum source how much vacuum applied , 20 inches,, 29 inches , each will give a different result , so in order to understand/duplicate the result you need to know every seting in the test rig

[Funky Phil]

By the way, the OP asked if it is WORTH paying for the port work, not "will porting increase flow?" Great job jacking that up aswell.

[Funky Phil]

All of mine have been done at 28"

[Shelby]

you know this is getting old , some of us are forgetting why this site is here

 

seeing who has the biggest pisser is not it . the main reason is to help guys get and keep their car running ,,it may come as a huge shock to some but every one does not want 500 hp

a lot of guys would be happy if their car just ran right and that's who we're here to help

[Shelby]

All of mine have been done at 28"

 

thank you

 

point of fact where Cal is they would have a hell of a time drawing 28" hehe

[Funky Phil]

So your saying dont waste a large amount of money on a worked head when it can be better put to use elsewhere? Because thats where we were going with it, until cal started quoting guesstimated flow numbers and acting like these were SBC's.

 

So your only interested in the guys trying to get thier car to start? Are there not performance/mpi/advanced boards on this site?

 

When someone makes a post "head porting, is it worth it" thats not someone asking about a tps/isc reset, this individual is obviously interested in the performance aspect. So your saying this site isnt for them?

[Shelby]

Phil I do not beleave I need to validate my posting on here to you or prove my worth to the community.

 

but sense you asked no major porting is not worth the effort to most guys , until they get above the 300 hp point , great care needs to be taken on the inlet side near the aux air valve flow passages

[StarquestRescue]

I have a crazed z head. I would not recommend it to any body. To get those intake #'s he completely cut a way the intake guild and the aluminum bump where the guild goes. This head is a disaster waiting to happen. It can and it i will tear up what little is left of the guide, and sooner or later drop a valve. This happened twice to a local mpi guys with tep head done the same way. And if you drink the big cam coolaid it will happen even quicker.

 

My buddy built a new motor using a stock marnel with just os ss valves and no porting. An mpi car that makes well in to the 300's

 

100% my fault for not asking the right questions and looking at the pictures closer before i bought the head.

[kev]

The next time a member asks a question about it being worth porting a Cylinder Head, you can answer it with your own CFM Intake numbers. Until then, you should STFU.

 

Bill,

 

There is no problem in having a technical debate but to tell someone else to shut up just because you don't like hearing what he has to say is completely disrespectful.

 

 

 

 

Now back to the topic:

 

The flow data doesn't really mean much to me. My original post was 'is it worth it?'. Does spending the cash to port/polish/flow check a head worth the performance gain? Now in hindsight, I think my original post was way too vague. It all depends on the goals and other modifications performed or to be performed to the engine. Responders asked for me to provide more detail on these modifications and goals...in which I did. And the consensus was 'no, put your money towards other aspects of the build'.

 

One suggestion was use a BB in lieu of a JB turbo to increase spool time..this option cost about the same as the head porting but it is in more alignment with the goals of my specific build. I very much appreciated this suggestion and advice. Note it was from the same member who originally responded with 'hell you spent so much already, you might as well port the head up too'. This is also a true statement and was my original plan. However after he thought about the goals, etc. he changed his advice.

 

Kevin

 

 

[jszucs]

Bullet proofing a Engine bottom end for a Lawnmower, 1000 horsepower set up, or anything in between should be done the same......NO SHORT CUTS!!!! with the best parts available. It's like this: Installing Hyper-Us or using the Stock pistons on a 400 HP G54B Engine rebuild .....See what i'm getting at??? You get the end result from what you install and the machine work that has been done Go cheap, you get cheap results Thus my phrase: "Bulletproofing" the bottom end of a engine

 

Trying to "bulletproof" a engines bottom end doesn't mean that it may not fail...But, with what I have done to my engine (Forged pistons, turned crankshaft, rebuilt rods, new rod and main bearings and balancing of the entire rotating assembly) It has held together at 7000 rpms more than once

 

Bill

 

Now lets see you do 7K with a big boy turbo then

[jszucs]

still not what I asked,, any number recived will be directly effected by the force used

even using a vacuum source how much vacuum applied , 20 inches,, 29 inches , each will give a different result , so in order to understand/duplicate the result you need to know every seting in the test rig

 

If you want to get that fine about it, you would also need to know the humidity, @ sea level or above, air temp used, baro reading for the day ect.

[jszucs]

Phil I do not beleave I need to validate my posting on here to you or prove my worth to the community.

 

but sense you asked no major porting is not worth the effort to most guys , until they get above the 300 hp point , great care needs to be taken on the inlet side near the aux air valve flow passages

 

By the point your thinking about porting you should not be using a jet valve head.

[Funky Phil]

"Standard day" conditions are typically used.

[jabbott126]

This was great help for me!

 

What i pretty much got from the 4 pages of reading was...

if I want 300hp range don't worry about fully building/porting the head and focus on the supporting mods.

 

If i plan to go 400+hp Probably a good Idea to get the proper porting and internals done now.

I guess at this point its if i should or shouldn't get 1mm OS SS valves or go with the stock size SS?

[jabbott126]

This was great help for me!

 

What i pretty much got from the 4 pages of reading was...

if I want 300hp range don't worry about fully building/porting the head and focus on the supporting mods.

 

If i plan to go 400+hp Probably a good Idea to get the proper porting and internals done now.

I guess at this point its if i should or shouldn't get 1mm OS SS valves or go with the stock size SS?

[Caliber308]

Now lets see you do 7K with a big boy turbo then

 

Why?

 

My car was set up for short fast runs. Why in the hell would I want to install a Turbo that comes in at 15 or 16 psi boost With what I have done to the bottom end, and Cylinder Head modifications....I don't need a high boosting Turbo that comes on late. The TD05H17C suits my needs just fine

 

 

Bill

[Caliber308]

This was great help for me!

 

What i pretty much got from the 4 pages of reading was...

if I want 300hp range don't worry about fully building/porting the head and focus on the supporting mods.

 

If i plan to go 400+hp Probably a good Idea to get the proper porting and internals done now.

I guess at this point its if i should or shouldn't get 1mm OS SS valves or go with the stock size SS?

 

You really need to talk to a professional engine builder.......Like Dad.

 

Bill

[jabbott126]

Oh I plan on it. My block is going to a well known engine building shop in my town for Honing, Leveling, O-ring etc basically everything i need done to reassemble my motor.

 

But for the Head, Ive talked to Dad but atm he is to swamped to do the work i need to do to it. So ill probably be getting ported from a man named Ed Kelly (Turbo Dodge guy) Very good at what he does.

[turbosigma]

My 2c, its worth it, no dyno print out yet but its making more power now at 16psi than it did at 22psi. Keep in mind this is a cam and head work. Should be intreasing when it gets the new intake and tune.

 

OS valves - double valve springs - cam - adj cam gear - cnc intake ported, exhaust only ported around valves - cnc combustion chamber

 

https://fbcdn-sphoto...7_3319002_o.jpg

 

https://fbcdn-sphoto...447_48305_o.jpg

 

https://fbcdn-sphoto...7_1068305_o.jpg

[Funky Phil]

No one said "not" to use SS valves.

 

turbosigma,

is that an RPW billet?

 

[jszucs]

Why?

 

My car was set up for short fast runs. Why in the hell would I want to install a Turbo that comes in at 15 or 16 psi boost With what I have done to the bottom end, and Cylinder Head modifications....I don't need a high boosting Turbo that comes on late. The TD05H17C suits my needs just fine

 

 

Bill

 

You have allot to learn my friend. A TD0517c @ 15 #'s flow what? like 450CFM (sorry don't know and can't find data on a TD05 but a TD06 8CM2 hosuing is around 550CFM) A 62-1 @ 15#'s flows 800 + CFM ? And just because the smaller turbo makes 15#'s by 2500 RPM does not equate to a larger trubo hitting 15#'s by 3500 RPM but still out flows the smaller turbo at 2500 RPM. It's all about flow not # of boost. after all the motor is a big air pump.

 

For a quick light to light car I think the C wheels are a good choice but would definatly upgrade that hotside and let that baby breath. By 5K that thing has got to be choaking itself.

[turbosigma]

turbosigma,

is that an RPW billet?

 

Good call, Yes. There Stage 2 turbo cam.

[creakyjoints]

We can get billet cams for 54b? Cool. How much?

[StarquestRescue]

A 62-1 @ 15#'s flows 800 + CFM ?

 

But, I do not car how much you port it. Good luck getting 800 cfm of air in to this engine at 15 psi. And no modern high performance turbo is designed to be at peak flow at 15 psi.

 

SS valves are a no brainier. They are cheep, flow better and can be reused in your next head when your current one turns to junk. Your $400-800 port job can not be reused in your next head.