Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Posting here for greater exposure, hoping some Ford guys are amongst us. Got a 98 Ford Expedition 5.4 auto, 2WD. Number 6 keeps giving me misfire codes. Was running fine, problem started suddenly. I replaced plugs, coil on plug. Problem went away for a while. Came back with a vengeance. Replaced coil on plug 4X's over now. Plugs, etc. have not done compression test yet. Problem persists, specially under load. Got sick of searching the Ford sites and google. Some info points to EGR problems, carbon build up? Seems odd to me. It's weird because there are moments it runs smooth and fine, then starts misfiring. Any tips? And yes, I did check that coil is firing and plug with coil is firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasQuest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I know theres a TSB out on those motors for moisture getting in there and fouling the plugs and frying the coilpack. EGR shouldn't have anyting to do with it, usually misfires indicate ignition problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohioquest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I'm a Ford Tech in Akron man. I have had those older 5.4 engines have fuel injector problems. I will run the year and model on my ford site since I dont have a VIN to specify the model to see if there are any TSB's. As far as I can remember I though there was some sort of message abouth the injectors. I would not beleive it would be an egr issue because it is a specfic cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohioquest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I found this also specific to a p0306 TSB 97-25-8 RUNS ROUGH - MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) ILLUMINATED - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTC) P0300 THROUGH P0308 MAY BE STORED IN MEMORY - VEHICLES BUILT THROUGH 11/26/97 EQUIPPED WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE LAMP - MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) ILLUMINATED - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTC) P0300 THROUGH P0308 MAY BE STORED IN MEMORY - VEHICLES BUILT THROUGH 11/26/97 EQUIPPED WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE ENGINE - ROLLER FINGER FOLLOWERS DISLODGE - DURING AMBIENT TEMPERTURES LESS THAN -18 DEGREES C (0 DEGREES F) - VEHICLES BUILT THROUGH 11/26/97 EQUIPPED WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE Publication Date: DECEMBER 8, 1997 LIGHT TRUCK: 1997-1998 ECONOLINE, EXPEDITION, F-150, F-250 LD 1998 NAVIGATOR ISSUE: The roller finger followers may become dislodged and end up loose in the cylinder head during ambient temperatures of less than -18°C (0°F). This may result in damage to the camshaft, roller finger follower, valve, retainer, valve guide, etc. ACTION: Refer to the following Service Procedure for details. SERVICE PROCEDURE Check compression of all cylinders. Remove cam cover from the affected side of the engine which showed low compression readings. Look for a follower that has become dislodged and examine all components for damage (i.e., camshaft, valve, follower, etc.). If damage is found, contact the engine plant Hotline at the numbers listed in this article. If no damage is found, remove all followers from the engine (both sides) and compare to Figure 1 to determine their revision level. http://www.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/pubs/auxf/~WT/USENIE/1906/tb5304a.gif Figure 1 - Article 97-25-8 [*]If they are the new revision, contact the engine plant Hotline at the numbers listed in this article. If they are the old revision level, replace all followers with new level Followers (F8AZ-6564-AA). [*]Recheck compression of all cylinders to verify proper valve train operation. [*]If compression is within specifications, reinstall the cam covers and any other engine components removed. [*]If the compression is still unacceptable, contact the engine plant Hotline at the numbers listed in this article. Engine plant telephone numbers: Windsor Engine - (800) 465-4680 Romeo Engine - (800) 833-4503 PART NUMBER PART NAME F8AZ-6564-AA Roller Tip Follower OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: NONE WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME 972508A Compression Test - All Models 1.0 Hr. 972508B Replace Followers - F-Series, Expedition (4.6L MFI, 5.4L MFI) 3.8 Hrs. 972508C Replace Followers - Navigator (5.4L MFI) 3.8 Hrs. 972508D Replace Followers - Econoline (4.6L MFI) 5.6 Hrs. 972508E Replace Followers - Econoline (5.4L MFI) 5.4 Hrs. DEALER CODING BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE 6529 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 That would be my guess too. An injector or corrosion in the coil wire connector. You could swap the #6 injector with another cyl and see if the missfire code travels to that cyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohioquest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 That is also an old tsb. Not to freak you out. I would check compression when the concern is present. Especially since you have replaced the coil and plugs multiple times. All that is left would be fuel and compression. If both of those rule out than there may be a possible signal loss to the COP. Another easy thing to do if your compression checks out would be to swap the injector with the one adjasent to it. Obviously if the misfire follows than you may have an issue there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Thanks for the input. I have some extra injectors at hand, will give that a shot. I realize it's gotta be something lame. But I'm frustrared. The number 6 on this thing had a stripped plug thread on the head and I had an insert installed. Truck ran great for six months or more then just started this issue. The odd thingnis the problem comes and goes. I went for a 26 mile drive today, on the return trip I treated it like I stole it and it ran great at some points and would sputter at other points. But for the most part, it ran smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 many cars have inj clip corrosion problems,,be sure to inspect the in clip for corrosion ,i know many times injs on newer engines( just like a quest does ) can be hard to get to but you can hear an inj pulse with a mech stephiscope if you can get to it ,an ign modual box can some times have a circurt problem that can cause a random fiss firemy caravan had an intermitent miss fire on #3 and it turn'd out to be the ecu ( built in igniter ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTTY Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Swap another coil pack on to # 6 , i beat on a 2001 5.4 f150 daily and have had issues with coil packs before , ive also had issues after driving in heavy rain storms of water getting into the plug holes and fouling/corroding the coil pack springs even thou i greased them well , i just bit the bullet and replaced all of the coil packs and feel a big change in the trucks performance , could be an injector but i would look again at that coil pack , also had issues with cheap Autozone coil packs lasting only 3 months . Edited October 22, 2012 by SOTTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Used to slang coil packs for those 5.4's all day long lol... -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Used to slang coil packs for those 5.4's all day long lol... -Robert Yeah, I know, me too!! Lucky for me I can walk into any of 3 of my customers dismantler and walk out with a bunch of COPs for the 5.4's. That's how I got an extra 6 COPS, motorcraft. Shelby, I looked at the injector clip. It's been replaced already, found the wires spliced and reconnected with some crappy crimp connectors. I cut them off and soldered them properly. I have a feeling the previous owner went through this issue already and they tried all the same things I'm doing. I really like this truck, getting around 14.4 mpg, which to me is not bad considering what it's capable of handling, family/ hauling etc. But I gotta find a solution soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Sell it and buy something with a 2uzfe... lol... -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 the magic numbers is how much of the time do you actualy do any hauling , useing a car vers the truck if you put 15K a yr on the truck with out hauling a load vers useing a sedan would save $4000.00 in fuel cost aloneany way would not take long for a use'd sec car to pay for it's self Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_insanity Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 might be something of a long shot, but lately i have had several cases of crank and cam positon sensors causing cylinder misfires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 might be something of a long shot, but lately i have had several cases of crank and cam positon sensors causing cylinder misfires. Crossed my mind, but it's only number 6. And not all the time. Like since I posted this, it has not done it! Maybe it heard me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobH Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 With your problemsI would swap the injector first then if it stays on #6 start looking for a broken or shorted wire/wires to the injector or coilYou may also have a pcm going bad on the injector or coil driver circuitany way you will have to have it acting up to be able to test for it other wise youll just keep throwing parts in hopes you get the right one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I had a similar issue on my 99 F150 5.4...only it was plug 3. I did everything that you mentioned...inj. clips, swapped injectors, changed the plugs many times, changed/swapped the COP, etc etc. The end result was the COP...well at least I believe it was. On the third COP, the problem went away and never came back (well I owned it for 2 years after the issue was resolved). Was so annoying because if I removed the COP and put it right back on, the problem went away...but eventually came back (sometimes as soon as a day or so..other times it went trouble-free for weeks on end). To make it worse, on the second set of COPs I got the wicked misfire but apparently it wasn't enough to throw a code. So at that time I didn't know which cylinder was mis-firing. Had to hook it up to a live code reader at a dealer...of course it was cyl. 3. I had a similar issue on plug 7 that was due to me not having that little #4 or something bolt (why the hell do they use such a small bolt?) not being tight enough and allowed the COP to rattle a bit. That was cured by simply tightening the bolt. Those COPs suck. It is the main reason why I didn't consider buying another ford earlier this year when I replaced the F-150. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmassive Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I had this issue a couple of times and found that the windshield washer squirt nozzles would leak at the hood nozzle joint and the water would run down the hose and drip off above the coil packs, 3 & 7 on mine. Put some silicone sealer between the nozzle and the hood and didn't have any more problems, until I disturbed the nozzles again, usually in he winter time when I am scraping snow and ice. If I disturb he nozzles and the are putting salt on the roads at that time I will get a coil pack failure within a couple of days. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 why not build a cover for the cop's when I first saw this thread I figured it was an oldie,, but reminds me of my older caravan I have been fighting for weeks,, with no spark , new engine computer ,m, new ign swt , new key & tumbler set , AAA guy broke the tumbler when he made a key for it doing the old twist the new blank and grind on the rub mark thanks AAA , any way my first thought was crank sensor and I even replaced it with a new one $58 even tho there was a new one in there already so after replaceing all this stuff and still no change , I'm looking at the crank sensor wireing and you can't realy see it at all, it goes on to plug into the tranny speed sensor , so just for S and giggles I got under there and unbluged the speed sensor ( not and easy thing for me to do because ofmy arm size , cut a few tie straps and had the harness up where I could see it , after diging an inchthick build up of dirt and sand and oil I see 3 bare wires comeing out of the crank sensor connector on the veh side , all twisted around each other well 1/2 hour later and about 10" inches of added on wire to the harness I turn the ign key ,,she fires up like a new car, moral is a little looking around could save you a few $100 bucks or $300 as in my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I fixed this problem. It was easy, I sold it and bought my wife a Volvo! lol I replaced everything on that Ford, plugs more than once, COP's several times, injectors etc. problem persisted. Would go away and come back. Got fed up, got rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBMX88 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Real late on this:Skip to about 20 minutes mark. #6 misfire on ford 5.4 Couldve been a fried driver in the trucks computer. Edited February 12, 2014 by SFBMX88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 a worn out spark plug or a broken plug wire can cause a spark feed back to the ign igniter built inside the main engine ECU , it can fry the driver for one or more plugs depending on engine cyl numbers , I fryed the # 3&6 driver on my 3.8 caravan once when a plug wire came off a spark plug , some car makers have bee placing the igniter inside the ecu sence 1986 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 a worn out spark plug or a broken plug wire can cause a spark feed back to the ign igniter built inside the main engine ECU , it can fry the driver for one or more plugs depending on engine cyl numbers , I fryed the # 3&6 driver on my 3.8 caravan once when a plug wire came off a spark plug , some car makers have bee placing the igniter inside the ecu sence 1986 It must be what happened with this Ford. #6 spit the spark plug out, stripped the threads on the head. I had it retappes with thread insert. Then noticed the thread for the COP bolt was also stripped. The coil would wiggle around and misfire when it would pop off on it's own. I jammed an oversize Japanese bolt in there to hold the coil in place. But ECU driver must have gotten fried from all that misfiring from before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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