Starfighterpilot Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 My '84 Starion ES -may she happily be in Starquest heaven- had the Velnas (I think that's the way it's spelled) trip computer. I really enjoyed playing around with it when I was driving cuz it could display a lot of real time info. Especially actual real time MPG. I was thinking about this a month ago during my trip home back to Atlanta from Tulsa (the mind wanders in strange directions when driving an 11 hour trip by yourself). But I do not remember where the sensor was for measuring the actual fuel the injectors are using. I really wish that a '84 Parts Catalog was available to look this up. Anyone got one stashed away? Anyway, if anyone still has the Velnas system/circuit installed, could you take a picture of this fuel flow sensor and post it? I'm thinking that it was installed in the TB top cap where the rear facing plug is on the later models. But I'm probably wrong. Are there any identifying designators on the sensor? Can anyone help me out? Thanks KEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMeyerhoff Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 I looked through an 84 Mopar import parts catalog and couldn't find anything related to velnas. There was no extra sensor shown on the mixer. No listing for the velnas itself or any of its harneses and trim. Maybe an mitsu parts book would have it or possibly a different years book. mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Most MPG gauges just use vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 If there was a fuel flow sensor, there would have to be two of them. One measuring outgoing to the fuel rail, and one measuring return. But, pretty sure the calculations were based on air flow mainly. The ECU controls fuel directly by readings of the air flow sensor, a simplified way of saying it. So, in short... it's inside your air can. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DzNutz Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Yes, the trip computer calculated everything based on fuel level, throttle position, air intake and vehicle speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 From what i remember it was based only on the injector firing rate(which was calculated based on all those other things). It was only pulled from one injector, not both though. Of course it also grabbed vehicle speed. Next time i pull out my factory service manual ill dig through it and see if there was any mention of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Shift1313 is fundamentally correct. Fuel usage was determined by monitoring an injector, since in the early models they fired in parallel rather than the primary-secondary arrnagement in later models. I installed a VELNAS in an '89 and this is the aspect which doesn't function properly, resulting in MPG calculations being incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coke Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I just blew the dust off my 84 service manual, and no where does it say anything about VELNAS in it. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UlrichWolf Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Shift and TM are correct.....the ECU shares injection pulse width information with the VELNAS module, and based off of the injector pulse width, it calculates fuel flow. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I just blew the dust off my 84 service manual, and no where does it say anything about VELNAS in it. Interesting. My 84 manual has a section about the Velnas and all its functionality so that is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 More info about this would be appreciated. Its existence should even be added to the rare parts topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacMan Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I can tell you anything you'd like to know. My car has one, and I've spent a bit of time working out all the wiring and how they actually work. Installing one into a car that never had one would actually be very very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacMan Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 The unit consists of three parts, a control unit, display, and speed sensor. The display takes the place of the regular clock, and the speed sensor sits in the gauge cluster. I've only personally seen velnas units factory fitted to vehicles with the semi-digital dash fitted. However, I've seen pictures of them in vehicles with an analogue dash, which leads me to believe some of these dash's also had a speed sensor fitted. The control unit provides a clock, alarm, and stopwatch timing functions. It also provides a second trip computer (in addition to the mechanical one on the gauge. It also shows average speed, overall fuel consumed, and current fuel consumption rate. The unit gets the speed signal from the speedo sensor, and taps into the ECU side of no2 injector (however, the unit was only ever fitted, I'm pretty sure, to alternating fire injection models with the same size injectors, so either injector could be used). It also takes a constant 12v course, an 'ACC' swtiched 12v source, and an 'ON' switched 12v source, plus a ground. Vehicles with a velnas unit are wired slightly differently to usual models, in that there is a different loom added in, which runs from the control unit to the display. This is (I think...) 10 wires, and completely self-contained. This means if you find one, you can cut the plugs, and then re-make the loom, matching colour for colour. I think they only came in the early Technica models over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Pictures of the device would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 . I've only personally seen velnas units factory fitted to vehicles with the semi-digital dash fitted. However, I've seen pictures of them in vehicles with an analogue dash, which leads me to believe some of these dash's also had a speed sensor fitted. I think they only came in the early Technica models over there? My car has a full analogue dash and a factory installed VELNAS, so I can confirm the first statement. As far as what models they came in, they were also installed in ES models. An ES has all of the Technica parts minus the digital dash as far as I can tell. My ES has leather,power, cassette, VELNAS and LSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacMan Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) BradD - Very cool to know, cheers. Would love to see some pics of your car? (edit) - OH! and your sapporo! MUST HAVE PICS! Edited August 2, 2012 by ZacMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 BradD - Very cool to know, cheers. Would love to see some pics of your car? (edit) - OH! and your sapporo! MUST HAVE PICS! Dont want to go SUPER off topic but here ya go (Shameless show off time....)The ES (Currently under the knife for full body and paint... build thread coming soon!) http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3232/4552760773_4f8c95700c_b.jpg http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3200/4552765557_4776100070_b.jpg The Sapporo....http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7238/6953445056_b63c37ab86_b.jpg http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk228/hillbillyhector/grandmas%20corolla/vintage%20japanese/DSC_0001.jpg http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk228/hillbillyhector/grandmas%20corolla/vintage%20japanese/DSC_0014.jpg Here is a link to the thread on the car when the previous owner found it in a junkyard!!! http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8173 And here is a link to my thread on the Starion... http://mitsu-media.com/showthread.php?t=7752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacMan Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Oh wow, that sapporo is fricken awesome man! I used to have a GSR turbo one, in black, with the IRS. Wish I'd never sold that car, but the current owner has it fully stripped for a rebuild, so it worked out for the best . Flatty Love Right, back on topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacMan Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Put this info together for alp247, thought it'd be nice to have here too. http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx141/ProZac83/Starion%20Project/P8060033_1024x768.jpg http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx141/ProZac83/Starion%20Project/P8060032_1024x768.jpg http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx141/ProZac83/Starion%20Project/P8060034_1024x768.jpg Unfortunately the previous owner of this unit didn't like the japanese writing, so has (really roughly) painted over it . The one fitted to my car looks like:http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx141/ProZac83/Starion%20Project/DSC01934.jpg The fuel usage signal is taken from tapping into the number two injector wire, on the ECU (ground switching) side.The speed signal is taken from a speedo sensor in the back of the instrument cluster. It should be possible to tap into a gearbox mounted speedo sensor, but I wouldnt know what sort of signal they output, so no idea if the signal would need multiplying or dividing. The rest is just a ground, a constant power, an 'acc' switched power, an 'on' switched power, and an illumination wire. The loom from the control unit to the display is taped into the factory loom, but actually completely self-contained, doesn't have any extra wires running anywhere, so aslong as you mirror image the plugs, should work, see the picture for a clearer idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alp247 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 wow, great. I'm going to have to save this information and get some free time to try to get this installed in my car. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 tons of great info you are posting zac! Brad, were those leather seats factory on your 84? i have the same car but cloth seats. I wish i had your steering wheel! mine had one of those plastic wrap things on it and it ruined it. Sorry these are old crappy pics. Im going to resurect the project soon so ill take more. I also dug out my manual but i havent had time to scan the velnas section yet. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/P9030021.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/Nov2604.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/P6160039.jpg PS, whenever you want to take a nap in your car just flip the etacs switch under the driver seat. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/th_MitsuTheme4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Wow Matt, those cloth seats are super clean! Yeah I know all about the ETACS switch, seems to turn the music on and off. I leave it on to annoy passengers, lol. Leather seats are factory in my car, I dont think I have ever seen an ES with cloth, I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Wow Matt, those cloth seats are super clean! Yeah I know all about the ETACS switch, seems to turn the music on and off. I leave it on to annoy passengers, lol. Leather seats are factory in my car, I dont think I have ever seen an ES with cloth, I like it! yeah they are in decent shape. there is one tear where the metal frame for the "wing" bolster is. I think the seats are pretty fragile! Your leather seats look great in there! I finally fired my car up friday after sitting for awhile. I can't wait to dive back into it but right now im trying to find a house, have a baby on the way and need to finish out the race season(supermoto) so it will have to wait:) Plus i have a 68 camaro thats in about a million pieces... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Plus i have a 68 camaro thats in about a million pieces... A '68 you say? I have one of those too, 100% original, unrestored. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3016/2854735660_1aa9e3a2b2_b.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 A '68 you say? I have one of those too, 100% original, unrestored. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3016/2854735660_1aa9e3a2b2_b.jpg beautiful car brad! Mine isnt original at all. it was an SS clone at one ponit but it was a 327-powerglide base model to start with. Is that a manual telescoping antenna for FM radio? I havent seen one of those yet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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