400hp Build, Advice please!

[VICE]

I recommend you get ALL of the suspension parts from this website:

MOOKEEH

You will be pleased with the performance and it won't hurt your funds too much. He also offers Polyurethane bushing kits and plenty more aftermarket parts you may find on Ebay and he is a trust worthy vendor. I am in the middle of my suspension upgrade check it out guys!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_hllfg0A_1bY/S8Ruxvwk7NI/AAAAAAAABkk/H8RoVZe_k04/s800/GEDC1375.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hllfg0A_1bY/S8Ru17ZZdwI/AAAAAAAABko/PMvc57UCXlY/s800/GEDC1374.JPG

[polarisman14]

Looks good. I'll check out his site sometime, I've heard good stuff about him and just forgot to list him when I mentioned the places I knew of.

[polarisman14]

Another quick question...What turbo to go with? And manifold...Does anyone make a tubular manifold? I've currently got the HKS GT2835 turbo which is a really nice piece but I'd like to get a tubular manifold with the t25 flange welded on to it if someone would be willing to make something like that. Anyone know where to go to for something like that?

[polarisman14]

Bump...

[jszucs]

Another quick question...What turbo to go with? And manifold...Does anyone make a tubular manifold? I've currently got the HKS GT2835 turbo which is a really nice piece but I'd like to get a tubular manifold with the t25 flange welded on to it if someone would be willing to make something like that. Anyone know where to go to for something like that?

 

Only one I know of off hand is Chad

[jinx]

1st thing I'd do is get rid of that hks gt28. Those GT r over priced, over rated.... sell it to some sr20 fanboy. If you r truely a 'purist', run a bolt-on mitsu turbo upgrade with TBI... have some fun while u setup that 400hp mpi combination alongside.

 

Wouldn't spend money on a maifold, only to 'choke' a 400hp 54 trying to exhale thru a T2 flange.

These motors have the lungs to spin up a much bigger/better/cheaper 400+hp turbo, early enough..... holset hx35/hx40, gt35, 60-1, 20g, 50trim/t04e, to name a few

 

I've been emphasizing the lack of g54 camshaft work, on these forums forever.... then a member gains ~100hp, simply by putting forth the extra effort to have his 'performace' cam properly reground. I'd chase that EXACT grind from schnieder

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=97256

[polarisman14]

Okay, so lose the HKS turbo. Got it.

 

What turbo would you suggest, then? Right now there's a 16g on there but I know that runs out of steam somewhere south of 300whp (or at least that's what I've seen here). Should I shoot for a 19c? Will that support my power goals? If I do go for a 19c, should I get a different manifold, is any portwork necessary on the stock manifold, etc.? Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[garychoffmann]

If your really interested in a tubular manifold and a sheet metal intake I have an awesome fab guy. He owns his own shop so turn around wouldn't be so bad. These things are not cheap though.....

[jinx]

Not saying 'drag race' it, but to get a better idea of how 'quick' of a street car u want ?

why "400hp"? These cars r deceptively quick for low hp, but relatively robust torque.

For instance..... 16g, 17c, 18g tbi cars all touched 12s. What sorta ET range r u after and would the 16g not be entertaining enough if u "tweaked" your TBI setup down to the hi 12s ?

What turbo would you suggest, then? Right now there's a 16g on......

 

any 400+hp turbos listed r nice for MPI if u must forego a "hot TBI" as a stepping stone.

I personally went for the t3/t4 60-1, based on its proven g54 performance. No point investing in a header for the smaller mitsus imo, ie.. 14g, 16g, 18g, 17c, 19c. Their appeal & value lies in their bolt-on attribute, with decent perf to boot.

Like most, I'd go with the header + bigger turbo for MPI, where u can still have strong low end, torque & response, and not run out of turbo up top.

[polarisman14]

Yeah I just bought a full bolt-on MPI setup with MS2 yesterday from the drift truck. Now looking at a 19c for the turbo as I would like to stay with the stock exhaust manifold. Would that allow me to keep stock downpipe location and whatnot? I just want something that would have enough torque and hp to drift, I know I can change out the gears for taller ones to help with that if the HP isn't there. 400 sounded like a reasonable goal, no other reason lol. I'd like something in the mid to low 12s.

[mstieg]

Go to Bullseye Turbos and look at their S256. I got 352rwhp on only 15psi WITH a minor headgasket leak. I would never believe that if I didn't see it. I also got 280rwhp at 10psi on a rich tune with a diff EMS. This turbo is still new to the SQ world, but is extremely efficient and spools mad quick with our larger displacement torquey 2.6. It built 3-4psi at a 1000k rpms on the dyno.

 

Granted this is with all the supporting mods...equal length header, Chad's short runner MPI intake, big IC with short 2.5" top mount IC pipes. You DO NOT NEED at throttle body larger than your IC pipes. Anything more than a 65mm TB (darn near equal 2.5") is overkill and will sacrifice spool time and make idle tuning even more touchy.

 

Don't forget your wideband O2. AEM UEGO will do fine. Spend many hours reading these forums up & down. And avoid TEP at all costs...which means BIG costs.

Edited April 21, 2010 by mstieg

[VICE]

Tell it to the hardheads, I threw in a 75mm Mustang GT Throttle body on my MPI and 1000cc injectors.. Edited April 20, 2010 by VICE

[polarisman14]

I've got a UEGO already, getting ready to put that on once i pick up my 3" exhaust. Stock manifold fine for 350-400hp? Ported at all yes or no?

[Starwolf]

at least match port everything...

 

Phinko is a member on here who has just reached past the 400hp mark and you could talk to him about everything.

 

If it were me i think it would look into the S256 that mstieg was talking about...

[mstieg]

I've got a UEGO already, getting ready to put that on once i pick up my 3" exhaust. Stock manifold fine for 350-400hp? Ported at all yes or no?

 

If you're willing to drop $10k, I'd suggest spending $400 for an equal length header from Chad and have him put the flange on it that matches up to the turbo of your choice plus a wastegate hookup (adds another $25 to cost I think). Best get your order in asap - they can take a while if he's busy, but worth the wait.

 

Speaking of...anybody heard from Chad lately? He's not responding to my PMs.

[polarisman14]

Yeah I was just thinking of getting a 44mm or 38mm external WG flange put on the stock manifold or grabbing the ebay piece if anyone has good feedback on it. It's still cast and already has the flange so it just needs a ceramic coat to look pretty lol. I don't want to deal with paying and not getting any feedback or customer service--I know Chad does excellent work so I'll see what I can do.

[jszucs]

Yeah I just bought a full bolt-on MPI setup with MS2 yesterday from the drift truck. Now looking at a 19c for the turbo as I would like to stay with the stock exhaust manifold. Would that allow me to keep stock downpipe location and whatnot? I just want something that would have enough torque and hp to drift, I know I can change out the gears for taller ones to help with that if the HP isn't there. 400 sounded like a reasonable goal, no other reason lol. I'd like something in the mid to low 12s.

 

Well if your shooting for the mid to low 12's you might as well ditch the stock log manifold for a turbo header. Might as well make it a t3 t4 flange while your at it. Also I would think a quest in the 12's (and not just once or twice) is almost 100 % going to require a trans upgrade and your going to be swapping out rear gears.

 

Do you want this thing for drifting drag or everything? You know the car will drift stock right?

[polarisman14]

Right now the car is untuned so it won't do much of anything. My guess is somewhere around 150hp but I'm not concerned about it. I'd like it to be an everything car. I'll run the stock trans until it decides to grenade itself then do a swap.

 

What would you suggest for rear gears?

 

I was thinking GT3071R for a turbo if I do a flange swap--would like ball bearing coolant/oil cooled/lubricated.

[jszucs]

I think it's going to take you more then a flange swap on the stock manifold to see 12's

 

For the most part I have done everything you can to the car and don't exspect 12's. I am sure I could put some slicks on there and see those numbers but that is a huge amount of force on the drive line.

 

as for gears we only have one choice I know of and those are 390's from the trucks. Unless your talking having a custom set cut and that is going to be very big money.

[polarisman14]

I could have sworn I saw in one of the other threads that there was a 4.xx final drive set from a montero sport or something like that. I'll have to look into it more. Anyway even the 3.90s have gotta be better than the stockers in terms of upping the usable power that the car makes.

 

I'll set out to find someone to build the equal length header--hopefully Chad comes around because I'd like one from him from what I've seen.

 

Would it make more sense to have the stock-style flange put on there or have a t3/t4 flange? Basically I'm asking if I should go with a 19c/20g turbo or some t3/t4 option? What's the power output look like at what psi to reach the 350-400 mark? Thanks again.

 

--Matt--

[jszucs]

as for the turbos. the T3 or a t4 are bigger and IMHO a better design then the round mitsu flange. There is also the added benifit of way more turbos to choose from, and options for the internals of sed turbos. So right there you have a huge advantage. As for the power outputs you are fairly locked in with the output of the mitus turbos as they are designed for a particular wheel and that's it. Now they can be machiened out and a bigger wheel used but the 19 and 20 are about the upper end of the "common" mitsu (yes I know there is bigger in the mitus line) Now the t3 t4 or T3/T4 hybrid offer alot of options. Making a t3/t4 hybryd is one of them. But they also have options in wheels, housings prety much everything. Im no expert but looking for 400 some your looking at a large, higher end, highly efficient t3/t4 hybrid

 

Yes 390's would be a huge upgrade for making the car able to spin the tires up quicker. I don't really know that it will move the power band to a more usable range persay. It will kill HW cruze milage.

[polarisman14]

Yeah when I am cruising on the highway I only go about 70 anyway so I was able to get 26.5 mpg during the last trip. Anything over 20 is fine with me for that as I live near mostly 55mph zones. I had 4.06 gears in my focus vs the stock 3.82s that came in it and I had the same mileage but obviously every car is different, we'll see what I get lol.

 

I was planning on going with a hybrid if I did get a t3/t4 flange put on there, just looking for someone with knowledge of turbo sizing and whatnot. I have a buddy that has a masters in mechanical engineering and a good knowledge of turbo sizing so I'll pass it by him to see what he thinks.

[jszucs]

^ there are a few calcs online for you to figure out the motors output that factor in volumetric efficiency and some other input about the motor. Then you can plot that to turbo compressor maps / graphs. Try to land one in the middle "island" on the map / graph. Do that and the motor is working the turbo at it's peek point.

 

For me I wanted big and the price was right. When it blows up i'll rebuild it into something spot on. That way i'll have some real data on my motor to figure it out to.

[VICE]

Yes 390's would be a huge upgrade for making the car able to spin the tires up quicker. I don't really know that it will move the power band to a more usable range persay. It will kill HW cruze milage.

 

That's where the T56 comes in handy.. Being a bulletproof tranny as well..

[JustPaus_88TSi]

It's all in the tuning. Desert_starion got 34mpg on his MPI setup with a T70 turbo and stock tranny/rear ratios and he wasn't even trying to get the max mileage at that point when it came to his tuning.

 

 

Higher(numerically speaking) final drive ratios than stock will create more torque output to the wheels, and while "feeling" more peppy you might actually be slower in the long run like on a 1/4 mile run because you're shifting more often.

 

It isn't uncommon for turbocharged guys(with other cars) to opt for a lower numerical rearend ratio, so they stay in gear longer and thus they stay in boost longer.

 

 

This is where the term "purpose built" comes into play.