freebird Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 has this been done on a g54b block it is recomended on small block v8's and well big block too,but im just wondering i have the tools to do it in my machining class @ school and im rebiulding a G54B so maybe i should throw in some extra insureance ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcon88 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 has this been done on a g54b block it is recomended on small block v8's and well big block too,but im just wondering i have the tools to do it in my machining class @ school and im rebiulding a G54B so maybe i should throw in some extra insureance ??? Yes it has been done and a few people on here have it. I know John (S/N Indiana) his BUILT 89 has an O ringed block. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 was his sig name indiana ??? i need to know what gasket and stuff he used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcon88 Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 was his sig name indiana ??? Â i need to know what gasket and stuff he used Copper head gasket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 I'm running an o-ringed head and I'm using a copper head gasket too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted May 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 can i ask what is the big difference in the copper and the MLS gasket well,if you go to midwest turbo they sell these both and the quote that the MLS gasket is the best available. also heefner do you have any specs on what size O ring you used i've heard of people useing to big of one and it doesnt seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Copper is softer and should by defanition be more durable. Although they say its not for a daily driver, I've had mine for (knocks on wood) 6 years w/ no problems. I have no idea of ring size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_sawyer Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 am in the process of rebuilding the engine in my '84 starion.was also wondering about the o-ring gasket,I hope to have the block in the shop monday morning.A co-worker of mine races a dodge omni, he suggested that i make sure i can get a gasket before i have this done. So, who is the manufacturer of the gasket you used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Copper is softer and should by defanition be more durable. Although they say its not for a daily driver, I've had mine for (knocks on wood) 6 years w/ no problems. Â I have no idea of ring size. I have mine like that too never had any problems. I have heard people say that it tends to sweat oil (lightly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee1 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 can i ask what is the big difference in the copper and the MLS gasket well,if you go to midwest turbo they sell these both and the quote that the MLS gasket is the best available. also heefner do you have any specs on what size O ring you used i've heard of people useing to big of one and it doesnt seal. this is a good discussion. Supposedly the block and head surfaces have to be perfect for the MLS gasket to work right but they should be perfect any time you go to the trouble of opening the engine so that's neither here nor there if you ask me. I've also heard the MLS gasket doesn't grip the head and block like say a felpro would. the two steel layers can slide on the fiber sandwiched between them, and the top layer of steel can slide on the head and bottom layer can slide on the block. That would tell me that an MLS gasket is more forgiving in over heat situations, while maintaining added strength, making it safer to run higher boost. Just know that what you lose with a copper or MLS gasket is that safety valve of a weak gasket. Ask Mike K, and me, if you pull a head and find a damaged MLS steal Gasket, you can be pretty sure you'll also find piston damage. These things are tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjf Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 I used the MLS gasket with a copper spray sealer. Trying to get the best of both worlds. It has been fine so far, but it has been less than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted May 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 I used the MLS gasket with a copper spray sealer. Trying to get the best of both worlds. It has been fine so far, but it has been less than a year. BUT HAVE YOU MACHINED THE HEAD SURFACE AND THE BLOCK SURFACE AND PLACED THE ''O'' RING IN?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88whitestarion Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 The other part of this question is: Do you place a receiver groove in the head? or just groove the block and run an o-ring? With a cast head, the answer is easy. Yes. With an aluminum head, I don't know the answer. The place that just did mine only grooved the block. I thought it needed a receiver groove in the head but they said grooving the softer aluminum can sometimes create problems. Maybe they were just being lazy, not sure. Engine has 800 miles and I had it on the dyno Saturday for tuning and I had it to 27psi. So far, so good. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 i will be doing both sides but thats interesting,i was kinda leary about cutting my new marnel. Thats why i will most likely use a jetted head for my first time.Plus i like to port the hell out of the jetted head and get some experience.Going queit well i;d say ;D Slinging crap everywhere ;D But that doesnt make since to me. If your trying to hold the boost IN, hows only grooving one side of the surface gonna help that? Just doesnt seem safe,or worth wile. If someone has some info on the size 'o' ring they used,it would be helpfull!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 this is a good discussion. Supposedly the block and head surfaces have to be perfect for the MLS gasket to work right but they should be perfect any time you go to the trouble of opening the engine so that's neither here nor there if you ask me. I've also heard the MLS gasket doesn't grip the head and block like say a felpro would. the two steel layers can slide on the fiber sandwiched between them, and the top layer of steel can slide on the head and bottom layer can slide on the block. That would tell me that an MLS gasket is more forgiving in over heat situations, while maintaining added strength, making it safer to run higher boost. Just know that what you lose with a copper or MLS gasket is that safety valve of a weak gasket. Ask Mike K, and me, if you pull a head and find a damaged MLS steal Gasket, you can be pretty sure you'll also find piston damage. These things are tough. GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME!!!! IM NOT BUILDING THE ENGINE TO LAST FOREVER. SOUNDS LIKE IF I WAS THE MSL WOULD BE THE BEST BET!!! SO I WILL PLACE MY ORDER. NOW I JUST NEED THE INFO ON THE SIZE 'O'RING BUT I GUESS ILL FIGURE THAT OUT ON MY CRUSH/G=THICKNESS SO THE MSL A .043 THICK? I THINK I'VE HEARD SOME WHERE SOOO.......I KNOW I CANT GO ANY HIGHER THAN THAT BUT DO I PUT EXACTLY A .043 OR LESS :-/ THIS IS WERE IM STUMPED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 ok now im seeing a difference. some rings are just for the head only wich would be easier to do cause the block and head reciever rings are in a special gasket!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 im considering doing this to my block. I cant see how it would work to just cut the block and not the head. the 'o' ring is not actually an oring but steel wire that is laid in the groove cut. The steel is laid in the block then the copper gasket is laid on top of it. when the head is torqued down the copper squishes up into the groove cut into the head and thats your seal. without the groove in the head you would be compressing the head to the steel 'oring'. I could be totally off on this because its kinda hard to find info on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eipquest Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 here is youre anwser ihave tried so many combos w/ head gaskets wire in the block 60thou w/28thou sticking out and reciver gruves in the head at 14thou deep and 90thou wide. its been awhile but im 99% sure those were the specs i used i will go back into my records and check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 will there be a clearance issue if I use my 92mm wisecos with oringing the block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eipquest Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I dont know you will have to check the specs iv had better luck w/ 60thou wire than 41thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 My block is o-ringed. My original plan was to run the SCE copper gasket with stainless o-rings. However the more I researched it, the more problems I heard of in terms of coolant leaks. I am to the point where I am scared to assemble the engine with the copper gasket. However, I have been researching what a lot of the 4.6L modular engine guys (mustangs, f-150s, etc) are doing - they run copper o-rings with MLS gaskets! In the article I read in 'Mustangs and Fast Fords', this combination supports over 1200 hp in a 4.6L modular ford! At home I have the specs on wear to buy the copper o-rings. But I need to verify that my block was machined correctly to accept copper o-rings in lieu of steel. This is just a thought for those of you considering this. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 copper oring with an mls gasket, interesting. I wouldnt see that working. did you have your block and head cut for orings or just the block? The way i understood it, copper formed around the steel oring making the seal, is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 You only need one or the other (so o-ring the block or o-ring the head). In the copper head gasket situation: The steel o-ring holds a firm shape while the copper gasket compresses around the o-ring creating the seal. In the copper o-ring/MLS situation: The copper o-ring deforms and the MLS gasket holds its firm shape. It still creates a tighter seal around the cylinder though. Plus now you don't have copper anywhere near the coolant passages. i.e. this setup won't be as troublesome as the copper head gasket setups. Personally I think the copper head gasket with the steel o-rings would achieve the highest compression before failure rather than the copper o-rings. But seem as though some guys are pushing 400hp on their conquests with just a plain old MLS gasket, the MLS/copper o-ring setup would probably hold more than ever needed in a G54B. kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad2theBone Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 oh ok I think the EIP blue starion it was using the EIP HIGH FLOW CYLINDER HEAD that features ported & swirl polished intake & exhaust ports and it comes with a 3 angle valve job. the cost for that its $850 bucks (ORING CYLINDER HEAD at time of sale for $150 additional) also they have for sale the EIPTUNING the EIP COPPER HEAD GASKET(Includes O-ring wire) for cost of $249. eip head gasket cement cost of $14.95 EIP Forged Piston Set (drop in or Over Size available) for $799 EIP Chrome-Moly Rod Set for $799 of course it has the TEC2 plus the T04 turbo that blue starion is making like around 500HP. love that video run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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