JasonC Posted March 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 I let off at 5500 just because... I didnt want to push it too hard. I am going to go back in a couple weeks for more tuning. I did do a run at 12 deg but it was when the SDS EIC was running and it looked like crap so I put it back to 10 deg. I was a little excited and flustered so I didnt think to try and run the extra advance without the SDS. Now that my head is on straight and I know what to expect I will be able to tune better. Next time I will take it to higher RPM and hopefully find the end of the power band. Here is a link to a high res pic of the engine bay. You may have to copy and paste. http://www.geocities.com/jcorneglio@prodigy.net/ENGINE0001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 I gotta tell ya man I'm very impressed. Very impressed indeed. I won't apologize for doubting you because in a way you should take that as a compliment. If it's hard to believe your engine does what it does, then it must mean it's doing something good. I see alot of attention to detail in that hi res pic and your dyno graph just drives the point home. Reminds me of the painstaking effort Jay Kolda had put into his engine bay, and he placed well in lots of shows with his ride. Keep up the good work and please don't be stingy with details. Hey did you happen to express interest in a bumper core from me one time? that engine looks kinda familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 Dayum! I'm astounded. I just got directed over here by MNR89 - very impressive indeed. Now if that can just be replicated :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 Now that my head is on straight and I know what to expect I will be able to tune better. Next time I will take it to higher RPM and hopefully find the end of the power band. Here is a link to a high res pic of the engine bay. You may have to copy and paste. http://www.geocities.com/jcorneglio@prodigy.net/ENGINE0001 Don't get too greedy. With stock valve trian make sure to listen closely for floating valves. I'd hate to see you break something. Is this going to be a purely street driven car or are you going to run it at the track? Its awesome to see a car like yours perform so well but at the same time its frustrating to think that with a good solid rebuilt motor and some attention to detail you are only 25-50 whp behind all the knuckle busting crap we went through on the MPI. Your engine bay looks awesome. Has to be one of the cleanest cars I've seen in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted March 24, 2003 Report Share Posted March 24, 2003 I belive he has a New Cast Clearwater head, with HD springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2003 Clearwater with HD springs is right. I was looking over my build notes for some reason why it can deliver fuel. It couldnt deliver the needed fuel until I installed the 1G MAS. When I was wiring the 1G connector to the harness I accidentally cut the two wires that look exactly the same on the stock plug. I wasnt sure which one was which so I guessed and hooked up one of them. It was the 2 wires that "one gets used and on dont" I believe. Who knows? I am shootong in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 24, 2003 Report Share Posted March 24, 2003 the cool thing is that fuel delivery is not the only mystery we need to solve. Like I said, your peak Torque number is quite acceptable, and in keeping with what one might expect from your mods list and a well built engine. The broad flat shape of your torque curve is not anywhere near what we would expect to see from a tbi 2.6. So we need to determine how the injectors were able to provide fuel, and how the tbi/stock intake was able to flow enough air to hold the torque up there so long and produce that great HP number. Some guys are saying they're not surprised about the injectors keeping up. Personally I am very surprised they didn't lock up because you had to have been operating at or above 100%duty cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 24, 2003 Report Share Posted March 24, 2003 the cool thing is that fuel delivery is not the only mystery we need to solve. Â Like I said, your peak Torque number is quite acceptable, and in keeping with what one might expect from your mods list and a well built engine. Â The broad flat shape of your torque curve is not anywhere near what we would expect to see from a tbi 2.6. Â So we need to determine how the injectors were able to provide fuel, and how the tbi/stock intake was able to flow enough air to hold the torque up there so long and produce that great HP number. Â Some guys are saying they're not surprised about the injectors keeping up. Â Personally I am very surprised they didn't lock up because you had to have been operating at or above 100%duty cycle. BIG ditto on this one. Word for word with Chip ...and the last sentence is the truth ruth! I wonder if the larger turbos are maxing out and a bottleneck is created. I wonder if the smaller TDO5 turbos are just enough not to cause issues?? Sort of like a "buffering" effect so to speak. We are talking a whole different game with a 20G and .60 A/R vs a 19C and .48 A/R If you notice Bill_TSG car made a WICKED change after the header went on. I did notice my best powerband characteristics where always at like 9 psi. Now that was with a 735 cfm turbo so the backpressure was lesser and the cfm output was lesser. Well time will tell... :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 jason what was your fuel pressure at idle ? and fuel pressure when floored max 5500 RPM? what is the rising rate fuel pressure set at? ? 2:1 or 3:1 or 4:1 when you made your max HP and torque ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Damn, just started reading this post. Those numbers are a kick in the arse with a TBI car. I agree with everyone's post, we need to find out exactly what you did and just snapshot it to our cars. When you have the time, it would be really helpful for you to list exactly what parts you used and what you did to them. Congrats on your awesome car and run. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellydahman Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Jason have you had your Injectors flowed? It could be that your are flowing around 1150 Secondary Injector and a 850 Primary Injector which would put you in the 2000cc fuel flow and be why you posted such results. Not to mention the 3" exhaust and Hard Pipe kit Great #"s man. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 I haven't had the injectors flowed. I bet it is all the HP kit and exhaust though. Anyway to answer some of the questions asked.... My fuel press is 35psi at idle and 1:1 RR. I only get up to about 64psi at 25psi of boost though. I am happy to say it is running great and the idle is finally right where it needs to be. Now I have to find some tires that will hold up to the low end torque and get this thing moving. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 So tells us some details on how you ported the intake?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 It's that TORNADO isn't it! ? !? LOL! You son of a gun you! hahahaha ;D ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 It's that TORNADO isn't it! ? !? LOL! You son of a gun you! hahahaha  ;D ;D Man Mike, you know all the secrets! That's what's going to make your car such a beast, not the turbo! ;D Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_S. Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 yeah i noticed you said ''polished'' intake along with the porting, i have mine ported also, but i left it semi-rough to help atomize the fuel, but hell if polishing it works that good, break out the polishing wheels ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gestun66 Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Jason  thanks for giving us non-MPI guys hope!  Did you increase the diameter of your fuel lines?  If so this could be one factor that we are overlooking as to why you get such great fuel flow.  Just received my 1g MAS in the mail!  Hope you don't mind if I use some of your ideas!  Good Job!  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 I have stock fuel lines and maintain 65psi up to 6500 rpm at 20psi boost with 45psi baseline and 4 720cc injectors. That produces about 280hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 Great numbers but I have one question. Why don't I see the torque cross the horse power at 5252 RPM?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 It does, but it doesnt look like it becuse they are on a diff scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted April 5, 2003 Report Share Posted April 5, 2003 I can tell that the torque and horsepower are on different scales but even with the RPM at the bottom of the scale it still doesn't look like crosses at 5252 Call me skeptical but it looks like it crosses at 5130 That might mean the tires where slipping on the rollers and his numbers might of been better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel_1985_2000 Posted April 6, 2003 Report Share Posted April 6, 2003 So what gap did you put your spark plugs at to get the most power and torque from them? what sixe wires are you running also? Thanks Daniel Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted April 7, 2003 Report Share Posted April 7, 2003 Those runs are not very impressive for all the mods he has done. I ran less boost on my 18G on a stock bottom end, and managed to get 247hp and 319 tq @ 18-20psi and my fuel cutout at 5k rpm cause i don't have MY RRFPR installed yet.  And i run stock injectors with upgraded pump and fuel filter. My dyno is posted @ tristarion, http://www.tristarion.com/phpBB2/viewcar.php?carid=27 the G54B as it sits is very capable, it just takes ppl to put the time into them to restore them and make them run  how there supposed to. I do have to say though, those curves are very nice, best i have ever seen on TB injection. But you should be capable of alot more HP with your setup. The a/f looks like you put alot of time tuning it. Right now I am in process of a full 8:1 forged piston, knifed crank, etc.... rebuild and MPI, SDS, and i am building it for 500hp. . But best of luck to you, peace, Kevin 88' esi-r I also have doubts like Chiplee, its not the max HP that is impressive. its the powercurve that just doesnt go with throttlebody 2.6 liter running 25psi. its way too flat. must see to belive. here is my graph running a T3/T4. the car is out of fuel and running on fumes at 235HP @ 4500rpm running 17psi and i am using a big pump and a non-adjustable RRFPR. i have an air/fuel readout at the button of the dynosheet. yes, the car could have probably made another 75 more HP running 25psi but not with that fuel setup. no way. http://www.tristarion.com/phpBB2/viewcar.php?carid=118 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted April 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 I havent got to the board in awhile so Ill answer some of your questions now. I did leave the intake runners semi-rough I just genericaly (I think thats a word) used "port and polish". I have stock size fuel line and am running Taylor Pro 8mm wires. The gap was set at .034. I didnt mess with it because when road testing I noticed a significant seat of the pants loss up high in the RPM's at .040. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gestun66 Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 I have stock fuel lines and maintain 65psi up to 6500 rpm at 20psi boost with 45psi baseline and 4 720cc injectors. Â That produces about 280hp Chiplee it's not the pressure, it's the volume of fuel. You can run any size pump or pressure you want, but the fuel lines will only flow the volume that is relative to it's diameter. Hence, a straw to a garden hose; no matter how hard you blow water through the straw it will never equal the volume of water flowed by the garden hose, even at half the pressure. 4 720cc injectors are designed to support 380 hp at 80% duty cycle. If you increase the diameter of you fuel line you will be surprised at the increase of available fuel. The pump will only flow as much volume as the smallest point (diameter) in your fuel system. Ensure you increase the diameter of the intank pickup tube as well as the flow capacity of your fuel filters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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