installed "new" engine with BSE

[Technology]

i just finished installing and setting up a 130K mile engine that has BSE and great compression (according to the previous owner). i used ARP head studs.

 

i still have to time it, but with seat-of-my-pants timing, it runs and drives.

 

main thing i notice is vibration lower in the rpm range and even a bit at idle. there is probably some at higher rpms, but there is so much ruccus there i don;t really notice, plus i have only strung it out once since it was done.

 

i think that for a stock motor, it's probably not a good idea. if you get it all balanced, that will be better, but for drivability, it just seems kindof "iffy".

 

i shouldn't complain, i got the engine for next to nothing

 

i will try to remember to update once i get it timed and drive it a bit

 

i forgot to mention i got a K&N filter, i can't wait to add 10 horsepower by switching filters!

[Dcrasta]

Removing the balance shafts should not effect the balance of the engine.  Get the timing right that probably has a bigger effect on how smooth the engine idles.  

[Boosted_One]

Removing the balance shafts should not effect the balance of the engine.  Get the timing right that probably has a bigger effect on how smooth the engine idles.  

 

 

Just curious what you mean with the BSE not affected the balance?

 

They do cancel out the secondary vibrations. It's very noticeable to me both the G54B and the 4G63, when the balance shafts are removed, unless the motor is fully "spun" balanced and even then it still vibrates a bit.

[89onaquest]

Removing the balance shafts should not effect the balance of the engine.  Get the timing right that probably has a bigger effect on how smooth the engine idles.  

Yeah. BSE kits make a HUGE difference in engine vibration. That is unless you have the rotating assembly balanced.

And even then you will still get a slight vibration.

When you have such a large bore stroke as the 54B, or the G63 or any other large L 4 cyl engine the balance shafts counter rotating force mass.

 

I have been told that SOMETIMES the vibration get better (goes away) after a time as the "NEW" parts get more worn in and in final placement.

[Boosted_One]

Yeah. BSE kits make a HUGE difference in engine vibration. That is unless you have the rotating assembly balanced.

And even then you will still get a slight vibration.

When you have such a large bore stroke as the 54B, or the G63 or any other large L 4 cyl engine the balance shafts counter rotating force mass.

 

I have been told that SOMETIMES the vibration get better (goes away) after a time as the "NEW" parts get more worn in and in final placement.

 

 

Ya I have seen cases over the years with the BSE on both here and the DSM with bolts rattling loose. Like starter, tranny bellhousing, alternator bolts, etc.

 

Some motors are so horrid they shake REAL bad like.

[Adi]

I pulled the shafts out on my newer engein I did last year... now has abotu 25k on it..

 

Yea... it's got a vibe in it... mroe noticable now with good mounts..

 

but all in all it hasn't affected teh rest of the car... if I could get teh clutch chatter to disappear id be nice...that's a wicked shake...

 

Thsi engein will remain unbalanced... unless you know what yoru lookign for it's not noticable to the untrianed person...nto in my engein anyways... I've heard soem better then other  soem worse..

 

I thikn I've ratteled teh same thign four different times... Hopefully will last you long time  I need to adjust my lifters adn put my AHP back on... nasty rattle 1G MAS against the body.. YUCK!!!..

[Dcrasta]

I said balance, not vibration.  If you remove both shafts it still shouldnt effect the balance because they counter balance each other.  Inline 4 engines rock anyway, so true the secondary harmonics are not canceled, but the internal balance of the engine doesnt rely on the balance shafts.   I agree some engines have better balance than others but alot has to do with external stuff like flywheels and clutches for example.  I did 2 engines it was a mild increase but not all motors are the same.

[89onaquest]

I said balance, not vibration.  If you remove both shafts it still shouldnt effect the balance because they counter balance each other.  Inline 4 engines rock anyway, so true the secondary harmonics are not canceled, but the internal balance of the engine doesnt rely on the balance shafts.   I agree some engines have better balance than others but alot has to do with external stuff like flywheels and clutches for example.  I did 2 engines it was a mild increase but not all motors are the same.

what do you think causes vibration? impropper balance.

[jisleyjr]

Good to hear you got another motor in your car.  Keep us up to date on how it runs.

 

John

[Dcrasta]

what do you think causes vibration? impropper balance.

 

A lot of things cause vibration.  

 

1: Lose mounts can cause vibration.  When you talk about balance it depends on what is balanced.  All the internal components can be balanced but the flywheel can be loose or the clutch assembly can be badly balanced that would cause vibration.  Then you have static balance vs dynamic balancing.  ITs not as simple as you would like it to be.   A inline 4 has a built in - rocking effect when it is idling.  The counterbalancer shafts (Aka silent shafts) are designed to create a out of phase vibration to -cancel out- the vibrations.  Its creating more vibration to cancel what is already there.  We can minimize what is there by dynamic balancing, but these engines are pretty well assembled from the factory, and they (like most japanese engines of the time period) have a fairly consistant static balance.  When they get old and worn out tho they need help.

[mstieg]

With the addition of the Fidanza fly, ACT X-treme street disk clutch, and short throw shifter, I suddenly noticed a good deal of vibrations, especially through the shifter.  

 

Yet, when I realized my balance shaft chain was bad and did the BSE (thanks to Rich), most of this vibration went away.  True, there's still more than stock, but that might/might not be just due to the short throw picking it up more.....I KNOW that overall, the engine now idles and runs MUCH smoother with the balance shafts removed, despite never balancing the internal engine itself.  I'm not claiming this to be consistant with the average Starion/Conquest out there, but just thought I'd toss that in since it seems people feel that a BSE makes vibrations worse....not in my case!! ;D  

 

-Matt

[heefner]

In most cases say %80 of the rebuilds unless you are building an all out race car or even street strip car I would leave the balance shafts in. I don't see them robing that much power, no more than you would gain from doing an underdrive pulley.  I would recomend changing bearings and leaving the shafts in the motor.  Its about as effective as removing the ABS.  Yeah you save a little wieght but thats about it.

[Dcrasta]

Hey man its my story and im sticking too it.  The balance shafts create more vibrations but if they are aligned correctly the vibrations are 180 out of phase to 'cancel' the primary vibrations.  So if u remove them you get the full effects of an INline 4 .    A v engine (6 and 8) have natural counterbalancing effect, and an inline 6 is so divided in crank revolutions that it feels smoother, but removing the balance shafts (misnamed anyway..should be called counter vibration shafts) reduce rotaing mass and thats gonna improve performance, and reliability (less rotating parts to fail) and you dont have to send a bunch of oil to a bunch of bearings that rotate at 2x the engine rpm .. To each his/her own but I would rather simplify my engine than trust some 100k balancer bearings.  OF the 3 2.6 mitsu engines that I have pulled the balance shafts from , when I did the timing chain and makde sure the engine mounts/trans mounts were in good shape I had a smooth engine.  IF its in a good state of tune and the timing is right you really wont / shouldnt feel 'more' vibration, maybe a different 'tone' but nothing like suddenly the engine is running so rough your eyballs are shaking. .LOL

 

Besides u even been inside a big block mopar/chevy them things shake man we got a big block 4 cylinder its gonna give you something to remember when you got fire in the hole..

[Technology]

well, i should be getting my stuff back from the machine shop tomorrow, or sometime next week. it's taking only FOREVER. but it shouldn't be long now.

 

i got hyper U's 30 over and a crank scrapper, and fidanza. BSE. all balanced.  block decked. i can't wait to assemble it. i had to get my crank repaired. welded and reground on the thrust surface, and also nitride hardened.

 

it's going to be a pretty penny. but worth it. cause there won;t be any questions.