Let's talk Heat Coatings

[89tsi20g]

i have no idea if BMW uses same process of skirt coating as the places mentioned

above in various links, but their M3 coated piston skirts dont show too much wear at all even after 140,000 miles, i work for a BMW dealership and replaced many bent rods and valves lol, so i guess i'll just go with skirt coating this time for my Wieseco

pistons, Rob NJ.

[BMWTech]

I'll have to second that. Of all the engine jobs I've done I have never seen pre-mature wear on the pisotn skirts. BMW uses a similar silicone impregnation on the skirts, actually now that I think about it I believe it is a graphite coating or Grafal as they refer to it especially on the 'M" series engines.

 

-Neil

[davida.]

I can testify as to the longevity of the jet-hot on a street application.

my exhaust manifold and turbine housing got the blue jet-2000

several years ago.  not sure how long ago exactly but I bought

the manifold from cnm for those who recall the name (over 5 yrs).

per jet hot and james recommendations the inner manifold was

not coated.  today after many miles and a second engine the

manifold still looks at least 90+% with no rust or chipping.

the turbine housing coat appears to either be thinning or the

old rust is working its way out.  I believe the coating was contaminated

during the last rebuild.  no noticable chipping either.

neil you saw my regular jet hot silver hardpipes/heat shield a couple years ago.

they still look the same - great.  I would not recommend coating the dp.

after the turbo its beneficial to get rid of as much heat as possible to

reduce plug (pulse) volume and energy.

da.

[fountaindyno]

.  I would not recommend coating the dp.

after the turbo its beneficial to get rid of as much heat as possible to

reduce plug (pulse) volume and energy.

da.

 

That right there deserves it's own topic somewhere.  Any good reference material on that?  Good stuff.

[89onaquest]

That right there deserves it's own topic somewhere.  Any good reference material on that?  Good stuff.

Actually, the way that turbo's work is this..

It changes thermal and flow energy to axial torque on the center shaft.

 

Typically you want the highest avail stable temp before and through the turbo housing, then after the outlet, it become a typical exhaust system. Cool it as fast as you can, without creating dead spots in flow.

 

EDIT: you can think of typical thermodynamics here, the hotter the gasses, the easier to flow around obstructions with little effort, the cooler, the more "punch" it will have, so you need gradual even changes without sudden changes.

The better you can control the cooling, so it is constant, and evenly cooling in the pipes, the better the flow. This also helps keep velocity up, by keeping the "mass" of air a constant "weight" or force in the pipes.

[Boosted_One]

I won't use any coatings unless I drive Nascar and rip my motors down every race....

 

 

see how well the coating stays on the domes???

 

http://a0.cpimg.com/image/CE/1F/19610830-92bb-02000180-.jpg

 

That was Swain's done about 5 years ago...

 

I will never use that crap again....sorry

[89tsi20g]

on the pic it looks like the piston skirt is coated, did you have it done? got some

more pics? if you did it looks like it wore out too  ???, Rob NJ.

[Boosted_One]

on the pic it looks like the piston skirt is coated, did you have it done? got some

more pics? if you did it looks like it wore out too  ???, Rob NJ.

 

 

Those are moly coated skirts and coated domes done by swain tech...they were wrapped in swaintech wrappers and bought thru TEP. This was done in 1998.

 

Ya that wearing out on the skirts was light piston slapping.

 

I don't have other pics of those pistons but on my new rebuild I used straight up JE's with no coatings at all.

 

I do think moly coating the skirts is a very good idea.

 

Like I said I'll never use that crap on the domes again... don't care who did what when and how with coatings LOL!   ;D

[89tsi20g]

cool; i gues i'll just put my Wieseco in without any coating then, cant trust those

"coating" companys anymore  :-/, snake oil? i'll just do my header only, Rob NJ.

[Boosted_One]

cool; i gues i'll just put my Wieseco in without any coating then, cant trust those

"coating" companys anymore  :-/, snake oil? i'll just do my header only, Rob NJ.

 

 

My header was coated local last year and other than it dulling a bit from just the elements the coating looks new. You'll know right away how it adhered to the header when the heat hits it.

[DaBulldog]

I coated the daylights out of my whole engine, in and out and actually have to say that I was impressed with the results. Now, granted, I didn't have 140k on the engine, but when I tore it down, it looked like the day I put it together. Even after MANY VERY HARD passes down the track.

I'm not a snake oil believer, but I am willing to give somethings a try, and when they work they work.

I do imagine that after 5 years they might burn off, but I really don't believe that you could call them responsible for the damage to that piston. That looks like the engine was run lean and after a awhile weakened the top of the piston.

[89tsi20g]

hmm....., who did the work/coating? Rob NJ.

[DaBulldog]

unfortunately it was a local guy here in Seattle that isn't in business anymore.

There was a local import speed shop called Horton Performance that had a guy who did coatings. It worked well for me, but, like I said, it wasn't 5 years or 140k miles. not even close.

was about 2 years and 13k. which is nothing I know, but this car was run VERY HARD, for most of that time.

Ryddler might remember me from the old days on Jason Kolda's message board back in the mid 90's. I'm using the same nick I used back then. I recognize his nick from then. If it's the same guy.

 

I had the quickest Quest we on the message board knew of till EIP brought out a red one that ran 11.3 at the time. Vince from the message board was the one who wrote the article to Turbo tearing them a new one for trashing the StarQuest as such a terrible car to build. He was the one responsible for the term StarQuest....

 

Vince lives up here in Washington...

 

So, is there anyone on this board who remembers anything I've mentioned? would love to chat.

 

Keep it shiney side up....

[Boosted_One]

I coated the daylights out of my whole engine, in and out and actually have to say that I was impressed with the results. Now, granted, I didn't have 140k on the engine, but when I tore it down, it looked like the day I put it together. Even after MANY VERY HARD passes down the track.

I'm not a snake oil believer, but I am willing to give somethings a try, and when they work they work.

I do imagine that after 5 years they might burn off, but I really don't believe that you could call them responsible for the damage to that piston. That looks like the engine was run lean and after a awhile weakened the top of the piston.

 

 

I know you man..you had that 14G NOS back in the day correct?? Terry was it?

 

In no way am I saying the coatings are responsible for that damage...I have my theories on what happened and made quite a few changes to my set up.

 

What I am saying is the coatings did not last well at all.

 

All I can say is those coatings should last 2200* plus....every piston had the coating coming off...even the pistons that were not subject to detonation.

 

I'm not the only one who has had this problem either...

 

Straight up forged slugs for me thank you!

[Boosted_One]

unfortunately it was a local guy here in Seattle that isn't in business anymore.

There was a local import speed shop called Horton Performance that had a guy who did coatings. It worked well for me, but, like I said, it wasn't 5 years or 140k miles. not even close.

was about 2 years and 13k. which is nothing I know, but this car was run VERY HARD, for most of that time.

Ryddler might remember me from the old days on Jason Kolda's message board back in the mid 90's. I'm using the same nick I used back then. I recognize his nick from then. If it's the same guy.

 

I had the quickest Quest we on the message board knew of till EIP brought out a red one that ran 11.3 at the time. Vince from the message board was the one who wrote the article to Turbo tearing them a new one for trashing the StarQuest as such a terrible car to build. He was the one responsible for the term StarQuest....

 

Vince lives up here in Washington...

 

So, is there anyone on this board who remembers anything I've mentioned? would love to chat.

 

Keep it shiney side up....

 

 

You talking about Phenton Horton Jr??

 

I've been on the Starion boards since 1996 so I go back a bit

 

Don't ask about CNM or James...seriously...can o worms...

[DaBulldog]

I had a t3/t4 with $14G in the engine yep yep. and oxide....yes.

 

I used the coatings to protect my pistons...that was the thought. I had 8.2:1 Weiscos that set me back $1000. just for the pistons.

 

but mainly the reason I did the pistons was because I did the combustion chambers and having done them, didn't want to risk that sending most of the combustion heat to the top of the piston.

 

I'm smarter now, but I've also been away from it for a while.

[DaBulldog]

ok, thanks for the advice...no CNM.

 

someone tell me how to put a pic in here.

[89tsi20g]

damn  ;D, i used to be a big time visitor to  Jason's website too  ;D, long time ago-was still on dial up lol-waiting for the page with the Quest to load up(was it red?)lol,

funny thing though i spotted Jason on this board  a day after he signed up, Rob NJ.

[Boosted_One]

Bulldog... your going to want to talk to JINX on the boards here.

 

Trust me he'll be happy to see you.

[Boosted_One]

ok, thanks for the advice...no CNM.

 

someone tell me how to put a pic in here.

 

 

post a picture:

 

XXX = IMG

 

[XXX]URL[/XXX]

[heefner]

the pic has to be hoseted some where else on the net then insert the URL between the 2 img's in brackets.  The reason Mike typed xxx is because if he would have put in the "img" it would have looked like he was trying to post a real pic and would have been a little red x ie

[Boosted_One]

the pic has to be hoseted some where else on the net then insert the URL between the 2 img's in brackets.  The reason Mike typed xxx is because if he would have put in the "img" it would have looked like he was trying to post a real pic and would have been a little red x ie

 

 

exactly...as I did type IMG and it put this up LOL!

[jinx]

hahaha MikeK lol

 

Dabulldog,

u Tracey Derius or something like that, huh ?  When I saw your logon name thats the first thing went thru my mind. Then u posted 'lotsa coating', I said, yep must be. I still have some stuff printed from your old page. Excellent example of a SERIOUS starquest.

Good of u to drop in! So many folks here have no confidence in the 2.6, thinking we must have 4valve heads and all sortsa stuff. Quite a few here have some very nice starquest buildups and its only a matter of time before the monsters awake. Yeah, ALOT has changed and these guys bringing all this energy to the game = great results

 

89tsi,  I'm still on dialup hehehe

[Boosted_One]

hahaha MikeK lol

 

Dabulldog,

u Tracey Derius or something like that, huh ?  When I saw your logon name thats the first thing went thru my mind. Then u posted 'lotsa coating', I said, yep must be. I still have some stuff printed from your old page. Excellent example of a SERIOUS starquest.

Good of u to drop in! So many folks here have no confidence in the 2.6, thinking we must have 4valve heads and all sortsa stuff. Quite a few here have some very nice starquest buildups and its only a matter of time before the monsters awake. Yeah, ALOT has changed and these guys bringing all this energy to the game = great results

 

89tsi,  I'm still on dialup hehehe

 

 

THAT'S IT! Tracy!! T something.  ;D

 

I sent Tracey an IM saying you'd be happy to see him around Jinx.  

 

Glad to see some of the big hitter old doggs are dropping in!

 

There's an OLD story about Tracey...one nite when the track was closing he ran some crazy ET with NOS and I believe it was a 14G turbo...care to tell us the story Tracey!

[DaBulldog]

OK, here it is.

 

May 6, 1994 Seattle Inernational Raceway

 

Third Engine build on my Quest. First one gave up the Cylinder head. Second was the precurser to the third. I put it together with a 14G, Modded stock intake and TB and hopped up fuel system. Oxide was on the stock intake, wanted to run it that way for a while to break in the engine without SERIOUSLY flogging it.

 

Third build included a shift to a T3/T4 and Florida Customs Header, Custom ground roller cam with rockers modified to Mechanical adjust, Custom built intake (lower half was fabricated, upper half was a ford GT40 intake for a 5.0L, the front runners had throttle plates installed and 2 sets of injectors were used) fuel system run by a TEC II, Spearco intercooler, bump from 3" to 5" exhaust and reinstall of the 2 stage oxide system.

 

tuned the car for several weeks to get it just right.

 

then...off to the track

 

spent the day learning to launch the car right, got lucky when a fellow racer offered up a driveshaft loop when tech required it cause I was running 8.5" slicks.

 

ran 12.87 my first run, real bad wheelhop cause I tried to launch too hard.

 

Spent the rest of the day running in the teens, ran one 12.0.

 

I just friggin knew the car had an 11 in it. Was running 20#'s of boost and about 80hp on the first stage of oxide, and 30 on the second. using 116 trick racing fuel.

 

decided it was time to step it up.

 

disconnect front sway bar and take 1# of air out of the slicks.

 

rejet the NOS system to 100HP first stage and 40HP second.

 

Adjust the EVC to 24#'s of boost, and ice the intake and switch from water to alcohol on the intercooler spray bar (stole it from a medical kit a friend brought)

 

Adjusted the TEC ingnition and fuel curves to compensate.

 

time to do it. early evening, track is still warm, air is cool....

 

staged the car after a few secs in the waterbox...

 

launched at 4500rpm. nose came up nice, back end squatted hard as the first stage of the NOS came on and I could feel the slicks haze a little.

I knew the car was pulling harder than ever, but I tried to concentrate on my shifts.

hit second gear before I was off the concrete pad and when I let the clutch out it barked the slicks as the oxide system kicked back in and ran the first stage till 8#'s of boost, then switched to the 40HP in the intake pipe, as it slammed the boost needle to 24#'s.

 

Third shift went just right as well, and I knew it was a good run.

 

just as I passed the second set of lights the car backed off real hard, which is why the slightly off MPH for the ET.

 

I cracked the head again on that run, #2 cylinder between the exhaust valve and the spark plug hole. ran great off boost, but would back off on it.

 

but I pulled around to the timing shed for my timeslip and giggled like a girl when I saw it....

 

11.64 @ 114mph....

 

Held that for about 9 months, then we saw an article about EIP's first SQ, the red on which ticked off an 11.3.

 

I will take my title back...soon. If anyone wants to see the timeslip, I'll email it to you, or you can look on Tristarion on thier 1/4 mile ET thread.

 

any questions?