Unorthodox pulley

[Michael_OBrien]

Before I get my pickup wheel for my Tec III mounted on a pulley I have questions. I contacted EIP for my parts, and they say I could have bearing, and crank problems if I use a Unorthodox pulley. EIP uses a standard dampened pulley on their Tec setups. I know the Caravan used a undampened pulley, and bearing problems were not a real issue.  I had my engine balanced with the Unorthodox pulley, but I have to think EIP has some expirence with this. Has anyone seen crank, and bearing problems from the Unorthodox pulley? I would like some input before I commit either way

Thanks

 

twomuchmoparjunk

 

88 Quest 87 Starion

69 Cuda 440

68 Super Bee

64 Polara Rag Top

And many more

[heefner]

what was there reasoning/cause for the prob?

[Dan]

I've gone approx 10k miles with an UR underdrive pulley on my 89 TSi with no problems whatsoever.

[Quest4Power]

if the assembly was balanced with the pulley you will be fine.  the harmonic dampers are for the unbalanced motors out there.

[Boosted_One]

The Caravan pulley is NOT the same as ours. It differs because Chrysler ran their own power steering pumps and not Mitsu pumps. I originally ordered a Caravan pulley and what I got was different than a Starion pulley.

 

However you can get the earlier Starion years, '83-85'ish and that has a solid pulley.

 

Personally I didn't go with the unorthydox because I heard from several sources that they tend to eat alternators due to the alternators spinning faster. With the known problems with the Starion alternators as it is I felt the solid OEM pulley was a better option. It also weighs in close to the Unorthydox pulley.

 

I have a write up in the MPI forum on the soilid pulley.

 

Just another take on it...

[Zer0fist]

ya, i heard mixed thoughts on those.

 

I just want as lighter replacement,  none of this underdrive hoo-haa.

 

??? Any body know of some one that makes one?  I get tired of the whole Fabro thing.

 

 

 

 

(If any one was interested in my AIC Mani,  my AIC mani is still in TJ no pics as of yet.)

[PiercedJD]

Personally I didn't go with the unorthydox because I heard from several sources that they tend to eat alternators due to the alternators spinning faster.

 

the alternator will spin slower with a unorthodox pulley. It is an UNDERDRIVE pulley. by making the crank pulley diameter smaller it is closer to a 1:1 ratio with the alternator than the 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio of the stock crank gear ( these are just examples to get the point across and obviously not exact..)

 

for every one revolution of the stock crank pulley, the alternator puley might make one and a half complete revolutions.

 

for every one revolution of the unorthodox pulley, the alternator might make about one complete turn.

 

just trying to put it in laymans terms. but it definitely does NOT drive the accessories faster than stock.

[Chad]

I have a pic side by side of the stock and unorthodox, the PS groove is the same, and the alternator/AC are underdriven about 20%.  the stock unit weighs about 5-6 pounds, the unorthodox is just under 1 pound.

[Boosted_One]

the alternator will spin slower with a unorthodox pulley. It is an UNDERDRIVE pulley. by making the crank pulley diameter smaller it is closer to a 1:1 ratio with the alternator than the 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio of the stock crank gear ( these are just examples to get the point across and obviously not exact..)

 

for every one revolution of the stock crank pulley, the alternator puley might make one and a half complete revolutions.

 

for every one revolution of the unorthodox pulley, the alternator might make about one complete turn.

 

just trying to put it in laymans terms. but it definitely does NOT drive the accessories faster than stock.

 

 

If the Unorthydox pulley is smaller how can it spin the alternator slower?

 

The solid OEM pulley w/ out the AC pulley is about 3 - 3.5 lbs BTW

[Michael_OBrien]

I wanted the Unorthodox pulley for the fact it is a underdrive pulley If the question is now how it can drive accesories slower, think back to your bicycle the lower gears are the larger sprockets in back and the smaller in front. That why you pedal like hell, and go slow. I wanted to slow down my accessories to reduce parasitic loss. I have done this on many engines for what amounts to free horsepower. My problem involves the fact we do not have pulleys that are independent of the damper. After research on whether I will have problems with bearings, and my crank will I have the answer to my question.  As it looks now I should have no major problems. Many four cylinder engines use a non dampened pulley. It would however appear that the flywheel mass does have a relationship to the front pulley/ and or hub mass in torsional harmonics. Since I have a lightened fly wheel I should be ok with my unorthodox pulley. I thank everone for your input.

 

twomuchmoparjunk

 

88 Quest 87 Starion

70 Satellite

69 Cuda 440

59 Biscayne

170" front engine dragster

and many more

[Tim_C.]

The unorthodox will drive the "underdriven" accessories slower.

It matters which pulley that the diameter is changed on. If it is the crankshaft pulley reduced in dia, then the accessories go slower.

However, if it is the accessory pulley reduced in dia, they will turn faster.

My friend has a Weiand 142 blower on a small block Chevy. There is a 2 pulley kit that will increase the boost in 3 different ways.

The crank pulley is increased in dia to give about a 2 PSI boost increase.

The blower puley is decreased in dia to give another 3 PSI increase in boost.

Put both of them on to get the 5 PSI increase.

We always joke around about using a flywheel for the crank pulley, and a 3/8" bolt for the blower drive pulley! Of course we would have to groove the bolt! ;D

Tim C.

[kev]

Yes the smaller drive pulley will spin the alternator slower.  Just think of a 10 speed bicycle.  As you increase the diameter of the gear on the pedal side, the speed of the wheel increases.   This is the same with the unorth. pulley.  Remember the crank is the drive pulley.  

 

The one and only reason why I never wanted one of these pulleys is that the water pump will turn slower!   No thank you, these cars have enough problems keeping cool.  THere is no way I will allow that water pump to turn at a slower speed for an additional 5hp!  

 

Thus I bought the pulley Mike K. is referring too.  Also it is half the price of the unorth pulley and doesn't weigh much more because it doesn't have the pulley for the AC on it.

 

kev

[Boosted_One]

Yes the smaller drive pulley will spin the alternator slower.  Just think of a 10 speed bicycle.  As you increase the diameter of the gear on the pedal side, the speed of the wheel increases.   This is the same with the unorth. pulley.  Remember the crank is the drive pulley.  

 

The one and only reason why I never wanted one of these pulleys is that the water pump will turn slower!   No thank you, these cars have enough problems keeping cool.  THere is no way I will allow that water pump to turn at a slower speed for an additional 5hp!  

 

Thus I bought the pulley Mike K. is referring too.  Also it is half the price of the unorth pulley and doesn't weigh much more because it doesn't have the pulley for the AC on it.

 

kev

 

 

DUH!!!

 

My fault guys, I dunno exactly what I was thinking as I know how the bigger/smaller gears work... ? ? ? Brain fart

[kev]

DUH!!!

 

My fault guys, I dunno exactly what I was thinking as I know how the bigger/smaller gears work... ? ? ? Brain fart

 

NP.  Happens to me all the time.  

[Metric-man]

FYC

[PiercedJD]

they are saying they don't lke underdrive pulleys because they are driving the accessories slower, which means the alternator will be putting out less juice at the same rpms, and the a/c compressor will not be operating at an optimum speed as well.

 

you won't gain much horsepower from the underdrive pulley, so what they are getting at is if you don't see any real gain from it, then why do it.

 

I concur.

 

they do look nice though. if you wanted a cleaner setup, go for it, or if you were tired of having two piece stock pulleys seperate and come apart, go for it, otherwise if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[JPX]

The UR pulley is a great upgrade. I had mine for oner 2years with no problems.

picked up 15whp with it.

 

UR products are billet and are zero Balanced  not to offset any engine specs...

 

I worked with UR for over 5yrs  on projects, Racing team and was a Sales Manager until march 2003 when I moved on. They make great products..

 

EIP is in the clouds.....

 

later

 

 

[JPX]

The UR pulley is a great upgrade. I had mine for oner 2years with no problems.

picked up 15whp with it.

 

UR products are billet and are zero Balanced  not to offset any engine specs...

 

I worked with UR for over 5yrs  on projects, Racing team and was a Sales Manager until march 2003 when I moved on. They make great products..

 

EIP is in the clouds.....

 

later

 

 

[rjf]

If anyone wants one of these, better hurry and check the UnorthodoxRacing web

site.  U-R is phasing these out and have them on clerance for $129.

[Metric-man]

Here is the direct link

 

 

http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/mitsubishi_starion.html

 

 

Look at the  top of the page ;) :

[artinist]

i dont know about gaining 15whp. it wouldnt gain that much hp even with the pulley and all the belts off.

personally i wouldn't mind getting one but i already have an non-ac pulley and the TEC sprocket is mounted so its not worth getting into it. if you havent started your project and have $130 laying around, sure get it. i dont see how it can possibly damage any bearings.

 

a stupid statement like that implies that going with an alumium flywheel will damage bearing too.

 

what size injectors are you using? maybe one of us can give you a program to go start off with.

[scotty]

http://www.dinanbmw.com/html/danger_of_power_pulleys.htm I would not risk it .

[Boosted_One]

I run an OEM non A/C solid pulley.

 

It weighs in at a mere 3#

 

Is an excellent upgrade IMHO.

 

I hear good and bad about the aluminum UR pulleys. So to play it safe I used the best that OEM had to offer.

[MontyTSI]

good debate here....i dont think it would hurt anything on our motors....but i dont see enough "potential gain" to go with it either. If its the rotational wieght your worried about go with the other side of the crank...much more gains back there with a fidanza or hks flywheel and once youve done that 3 pounds up front isnt going to help much....unless youve already reached the top of the g54's performance limit (has anyone?) then everything matters.

 

I made the statement to a friend today that our motors had no harmonic balancer...well i was proven half wrong by my very own manual....the crank pulleys offical name from mitsu is "dampening pulley"...but i seriously doubt it does any good because the rubber (very little) is incased in between to metal pulleys...what anti-harmonic effect could occur with one 3 ounce piece of rubber....little enough to say none. Check out a balancer on any old mopar..that my friends is a real haramonic balancer and does exactly what the bmw one does on that site.

 

btw....with one of tim c alternators you would see no adverse effects on its performance it will still make above stock peak power below normal operating speeds.

 

Monty

[Metric-man]

FYC