Shelby Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 years back the Tainters and i did some playing with a g-tec,, it concidenstly show'd any where from 1 sec to 1.5 sec of "0" excelleration durring the shifts on an auto car the g-tec show'd a gain of excelleration durring each shift event your program is doing some thing you can't and thats a "0" time lost durring shifts thats the diff in real world time and what the car is capiable of doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntercooledFlatty Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Interestingly, it say my car should be quicker and faster on 3.90 vs 3.54, and quicker and faster yet on 4.22. It was consistent in that respect regardless of how i tweaked the data. it WILL be quicker with 3.90's, better yet with the 4.22's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 years back the Tainters and i did some playing with a g-tec,, it concidenstly show'd any where from 1 sec to 1.5 sec of "0" excelleration durring the shifts on an auto car the g-tec show'd a gain of excelleration durring each shift event your program is doing some thing you can't and thats a "0" time lost durring shifts thats the diff in real world time and what the car is capiable of doing I found and corrected most of my data entry errors. The program does have a entry for time lost between shifts, which i had set to 0. I changed it to .35. Now i am getting result that make sense and resemble my actual time slips. The calculator is now showing .1 or less et difference between gear ratios. But a 2 to 3 mph change. I still need the exact CD, Coefficient of drag i used .30 to .35 Weight distribution front to rear, I used 40% rear Tire growth factor for MT 26x10.5x16, I used 30 and 45, did not make a lot of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysrus Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I found and corrected most of my data entry errors. The program does have a entry for time lost between shifts, which i had set to 0. I changed it to .35. Now i am getting result that make sense and resemble my actual time slips. The calculator is now showing .1 or less et difference between gear ratios. But a 2 to 3 mph change. I still need the exact CD, Coefficient of drag i used .30 to .35 Weight distribution front to rear, I used 40% rear Tire growth factor for MT 26x10.5x16, I used 30 and 45, did not make a lot of difference. Yeah I was about to tell you to check the shift time entry... It's actually a very accurate simulator once you have all the data correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 throughout the years, from my observations no oe 5spd cars have outpaced the 3.54 cars... pick any turbo, from 12A to T4. If you haven't substantially altered the SHAPE of your torque curve, why would one think your gearing requirement would change ? Oe did a good match. A glimpse at the dyno page should explain why. One standout that comes to mind was Rollo. 11.2sec on a 20G, no spray. 4.22 gear plus a tall dot rear tire. I can specificly recall him commenting on how radical the "ballos"? cam was. That can make all the difference. Another is the recent FIP car dyno. Check the tq curve shape. We don't get to see hot proven-performing cams for the G54, as say the toyota 3TC guys have.... enabling their 2 valve 1.8L to propell street cars into the 9s! Testing is the ONLY way to go fast... don't kid yourself. Anything less and you're only chasing your tail. Frank was a rare & classic example of how to make a starquest "quick". Exactly. These cars were not built for drag racing Neither was a 240sx, yet they rip with only suttle mods. Original intended use makes no difference whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 throughout the years, from my observations no oe 5spd cars have outpaced the 3.54 cars... pick any turbo, from 12A to T4. If you haven't substantially altered the SHAPE of your torque curve, why would one think your gearing requirement would change ? Oe did a good match. A glimpse at the dyno page should explain why. One standout that comes to mind was Rollo. 11.2sec on a 20G, no spray. 4.22 gear plus a tall dot rear tire. I can specificly recall him commenting on how radical the "ballos"? cam was. That can make all the difference. Another is the recent FIP car dyno. Check the tq curve shape. We don't get to see hot proven-performing cams for the G54, as say the toyota 3TC guys have.... enabling their 2 valve 1.8L to propell street cars into the 9s! Testing is the ONLY way to go fast... don't kid yourself. Anything less and you're only chasing your tail. Frank was a rare & classic example of how to make a starquest "quick". Neither was a 240sx, yet they rip with only suttle mods. Original intended use makes no difference whatsoever. Yes, we do have very hot, proven performance cams for G54B. It just takes a couple thousand dollars to set them up. That's why I came up with ones that target certain ranges and are a bolt-on. my 4500 range was for a bolt-on cam. I have a cam and engine that make pleny of power to 8,000. Well over 7500 for sure. I just haven't gone past that because I don't trust my own build enough. It was the first engine I built to run like that. My machinist told me not to worry and that it will break a Conquest tachometer. Yes, it does matter what the car has for suspension, etc... These cars are not a 240SX. Our cars have very loose drivetrain mounts and even looser luxury riding stock suspension (mainly the bushings). So, yes you can fix all that, but it just takes more money. I like to focus on what the majority of people want from their cars, and can afford. Anybody can say it doesn't matter what it was intended for and spend $30,000 proving it! I didn't say testing is the only way. I think it is great to do as much research as you feel necessary. I'm just saying there are many different applications, most of which can benefit from a cam that matches it. I sell a roller cam that outperforms stock. What more do you want for $200? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 whats want'd and what one would realy expect for $200 is diff from man to man , they could be like me and expect the world for $200 but thats not very realistic but i will say one thing if i had a tourqe curve like the FIP car and the max hp was only 350 i could still be in the low 11's or maybe even 10's,, it take rpms to realy take advantage of the lower rear gears no two ways arround that,, low gears with a max'd out power range @ 5k is not worth the effort unless you were on an 1/8 mile track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I tried messing with that calculator. Pretty cool but it asked for "engine dyno" numbers. Who knows? Can it be changed to use wheel numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 whats want'd and what one would realy expect for $200 is diff from man to man , they could be like me and expect the world for $200 but thats not very realistic but i will say one thing if i had a tourqe curve like the FIP car and the max hp was only 350 i could still be in the low 11's or maybe even 10's,, it take rpms to realy take advantage of the lower rear gears no two ways arround that,, low gears with a max'd out power range @ 5k is not worth the effort unless you were on an 1/8 mile track Yeah, I'm beginning to realize that more top end is needed. A stock block would work, but it really needs at least a cam and HD springs to run the factory redline. The factory turbo won't get you there either, so quite a bit of mods are needed to run the 3.90's. I drove the car down to the alignment shop today. 1st gear goes very fast! 2nd gear goes fast too, but 3rd and 4th aren't bad at all. 5th should be fine for the highway. I haven't taken it out on a long run yet. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Yes, we do have very hot, proven performance cams for G54B. It just takes a couple thousand dollars to set them up. That's why I came up with ones that target certain ranges and are a bolt-on. my 4500 range was for a bolt-on cam. I have a cam and engine that make pleny of power to 8,000. Well over 7500 for sure. I just haven't gone past that because I don't trust my own build enough. It was the first engine I built to run like that. My machinist told me not to worry and that it will break a Conquest tachometer. ...and I believe you, but I said we don't get to see these results Yes, it does matter what the car has for suspension, etc... These cars are not a 240SX. Our cars have very loose drivetrain mounts and even looser luxury riding stock suspension (mainly the bushings). So, yes you can fix all that, but it just takes more money. I like to focus on what the majority of people want from their cars, and can afford. Anybody can say it doesn't matter what it was intended for and spend $30,000 proving it! Even with the weight penalty and jurrasic 2 valve powerplant, Tainter managed a 12.4 at ~13psi... and that is but one example. Look around... then tell me how much better than that it gets. so figure ~$30,000 should do it, u say ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 that is more reliative then many of you know i did a compression test on that engine and did a bit of cam timeing change on the car ( Tainters)that week,, that engine was a tire'd hard run pure stock engine on it's last legs , compression on the highest cyl was under 110 average was 100-105 or so that was the reason it handle'd the high boost so well , funny to think the normaly thought of to be the best et run for a street car was not on a new fresh engine but one almost ready to give up he he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 My point is take a look at the bushings on those drag cars now. These cars are not built for that kind of abuse. The bushings won't take it for long and then the car is even looser for a piece of junk feel. Keep replacing bushings, struts and springs and see how much you spend money and time, which is also money. These aren't straight axle cars and are not cheap to make a reliable drag car out of like a straight axle car is. Thus the need to spend a lot more money to race one from a launch pad. On another note: I will proably need to lower the tire size from 255/50's. I am putting camber plates on and those tp the top of the tire outward into the fender. I either have to roll the fender lip or lower the tire size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 wonder why that is,, two of my cars and the tainters car had a good bit of room even with their drag slicks and they were servral sizes larger then 255's now my 265-50's are a little over 10inches wide, maybe a narrower tire not a smaller tire is what you need * or maybe they are 265-60's heck i'm not sure now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Well, I lowered it about 1.5" with ST springs. The tires rub on dips/bumps now and will rub much worse after the alignment. It would hit on dips/bumps before with the weaker stock springs too, but not quite as bad as now. My alignment expert is installing the camber plates and giving me a slightly aggressive set-up. One that the camber plates are required to get, but not an overly aggressive race set-up. He is going to mark two set-ups for me to switch back and forth from racing to street, but he will leave it on the street set-up when I pick the car up at the end of this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 ah an inch and a half would make a lot of diff is this on the 3:90 car , if so that lowering may come back to haunt you, when you go to get traction but on the other hand for a while spining the tires is fun hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 My point is take a look at the bushings on those drag cars now. These cars are not built for that kind of abuse. The bushings won't take it for long and then the car is even looser for a piece of junk feel. Keep replacing bushings, struts and springs and see how much you spend money and time, which is also money. These aren't straight axle cars and are not cheap to make a reliable drag car out of like a straight axle car is. Thus the need to spend a lot more money to race one from a launch pad. why would anyone keep replacing struts & springs because of occasional visits to the strip ? That is as exaggerated as the 1st statement imo. Bushing is a wear item. Although I baby my daily driven turbo/automatic S13(240sx), the mounts are torn and rear subframe bushings shot. Would that make it a poor drag racing platform ? No IRS cars have dispell that ol myth eons ago, of being $$$/poor strip material vs live axle. Look how well corollas drag. They START life with a gearbox and rear end upgrade =major mod. Still don't mean they're not excellent drag racers either I wish a bushing was all I had to whine about - lol. Gotta pay to play regardless.... starquests have proven their worth and are no more vulnerable to mods. You're a staunch advocate of transforming the torquey ol 2.6 slug into a 7500rpm screamer... yet never complain about added stress, accelerated wear and its toll on engine life expectancy, eh ? ...despite these motors "not being built for that". Everything costs.... no matter how ya slice it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Yes, but it is much cheaper to take a 12 to 13 second Corrolla and make 200 runs per year than a StarQuest. I guess that is my point. Drag runs wear on an SQ worse than most any other car, especially a light simple solid axle. I have 20 K miles and over 4 years on my build. I don't drag race it, but plan to take it out this year to see what it does. I think we are probably both right in our vision for what to do with the car. That's why I like to make plain what my goals are. Again, a very streetable car that can be driven 600 miles over the continental divide and back. I have 2 of them that have made the trip several times each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well i am back from vacation, track opens in two weeks, time to get back to work. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Maine070.jpg I found dents in the side bearing races of the 4.22 i am working on. I could feel them with my fingernail and when i turned then slow with the races on. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/bd5926a8.jpg Pulling the old bearings. I had to grind down those bolts to fit the slots off the puller. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/27224622.jpg That is the correct driver for this job. I found it on ebay along with the clips to hold the hydraulic lifters in the rockers and a bunch of other tools in a lott of tools. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/d5d019e4.jpg This rear will likely be for sale after it is broken in. I also have 3.90, 4.22, 4.62 gear sets and truck posi unit's i can sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 This rear will likely be for sale after it is broken in. I also have 3.90, 4.22, 4.62 gear sets and truck posi unit's i can sell. I have a 1993 truck rearend (3.90:1/open diff) to go into one of my corollas. I'd prefer a 3.54 & posi..... how much is the truck posi ? I'm gueesing it'll fit the 3.54 ? Think a 'used truck posi' would give long service in a 2400 pound/300 ft-lb tq street car with very few strip visits ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) I have a 1993 truck rearend (3.90:1/open diff) to go into one of my corollas. I'd prefer a 3.54 & posi..... how much is the truck posi ? I'm gueesing it'll fit the 3.54 ? Think a 'used truck posi' would give long service in a 2400 pound/300 ft-lb tq street car with very few strip visits ? Pm me with questions about stuff for sale guys. Jinx i will send you a pm later. The truck posi's work great they are even bigger that the car units. It should fit the 3.54 gears just fine. I could sell a 3.54 gear set cheep but it would probably be better to source a 3.54 truck rear local, and than install the posi on the ring gear. Re set the backlash and diff preload to what it was before disassemble and the pattern should look like it did before you pulled out the open diff. Left 4cy truck posi, center 4cly truck open, right starion posi. The truck units have the plates stacked right from the factory. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/b1aaa55d.jpg Edited February 15, 2009 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Well i am back from vacation, track opens in two weeks, time to get back to work. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Maine070.jpg Man that had to be a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I'll say. It looks like my back yard (not literal but close). Where is that? Took mine out today for it's first real drive with the new 3.90 gears. I'm now running 245/45's and It is fine for the highway, but I wouldn't want to run a smaller tire size than that. It accellerates faster than ever. I can pass cars on these single lane highways much easier. That's not a butt dyno, but real world experience. It goes from 70 - 120 MPH faster than you can say, "What kind of car was that?" That is one serious rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Man that had to be a blast. We had a great week, i road about 650 miles. There was 25 of us from the snowmobile club, i usually ride with the faster members. The trails were really smooth and there was plenty of snow. I'll say. It looks like my back yard (not literal but close). Where is that? We rode out of Jackman Maine. The picture is from Colburn Mtn. Last year we rode out of Rangley about 75 miles to the south. The year before we did a loop on the The Gaspe Peninsula (Gaspesie), in Canada. Some more pics. The Grand falls. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Maine058.jpg Colburn Mtn. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/Maine068.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yeah, it looks ccccold! I just wanted to add that my limited slip set-up does indeed want to jump the tire on tight turns. Actually, a simple 90 degree turn from a stop sign on a narrow street. I felt the rear grabbing. Anyway, that's what I wanted, so I'm happy about that. My friends like it too, but they have Detroit lockers, or spools, or redneck welded rears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 OK, back to racing. I was having some trouble with hesitation, stuttering and surging last year. The problem was traced to bad plug wires. The noseing over feeling past 5000 rpm is now gone and the car is pulling hard and smooth. I have been knocking off low 14's at 101 to 103 prettily easily but could not really hook up on the Nitto dr's, especially on the colder nights. Last friday we had a nice warm day and i got the Micky Thompson ET's back on. I had a real good night. I was actually spinning the MT's, i don't think the track was prepared to well. I ran 13.73, 13.78, 13.89, 14.09 and one crap run. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/DSC01139.jpg The 14.09 with .003 light, about 18lbs. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/th_MOV01099.jpg 13.89 @ 102 http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/th_MOV01101.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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