Shelby Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 couple things , have you check'd you max timeing advance and at what rpm are you geting into 4th and whats your trap rpm and last have you check'd fuel pressure at the top of a run your budy is just plain out pulling you in 4th and he shouldn't be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 couple things , have you check'd you max timeing advance and at what rpm are you geting into 4th and whats your trap rpm and last have you check'd fuel pressure at the top of a run your budy is just plain out pulling you in 4th and he shouldn't be I did lift in the last vidio when the engine stuttered in 4th gear. Here's a link to the dyno day for both cars. Take a good look at where the hp peaks and trails off. Maybe he should be running the 3.90's instead of me. I may build him a set if i ever get caught up. More info later. http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=82526 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 what about your rpm range and what rpm was it missing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted December 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) I ADDED A VIDIO AND MATCHED TIME SLIPS TO THE VIDIOS A COUPLE OF POSTS UP. CHECK IT OUT couple things , have you checked you max timeing advance No, 10 degrees base timeing and at what rpm are you getting into 4th and whats your trap rpm 5200 and last have you check'd fuel pressure at the top of a run No your buddy is just plain out pulling you in 4th and he shouldn't be I was cutting better lights and 60's but he was gaining on me after that. I was shifting right before the 1/8 mile. 76 mph in 3rd = 5221 rpm. I have 2.5 exhaust with a cat and stock cam. White car has 3" exhaust, no cat and 274 cam. He pulls me the most in the upper rpms. My car probably cut out about 4500 rpm on the last run. Edited December 19, 2008 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 couple small things,, are you still useing that small cone filter in the fuel line befor the fuel pump if so remove it and use one of the 3/8 in/out plastic filters,, and recheck the intank sock filter,, also you relay need to know the fuel system pressures durring a full boost run , you say port'd 19c does that mean your runing a larger waste gate flaper hole , and was the area entering the wg flaper port'd also sounds like you should be able to rev higher,, i got no problem at all hiting 6k plus with not missing or poping ,what valve springs are you useing you also need to check the dist mechanical advance system i have seen gm v8 mech weight springs install'd and the mech advance not able to fully advance because of too much spring pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haztoys1 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 (edited) Good to see gears being dropped in ... No disrespect anyone here ... But (A) There's no need to get or ad any more spring plates to the LSD... If you set the LSD up and did it with out a press your still set it up loooooooooooose..I own one of the highest horse power Quest in the country and a nother Quest set up for gravel and tarmac rally that I thrash the sh*&%t out of it ... And have not needed to add spring plates...These plates are about the same size as a 1/2 ton truck...You can if you want to but "I" see know need too... (sorry Chad ..No disrespect to you on this...) (B...) ..On honing out the bearings out to get them on and off EZer.then lock-titing them on.. WHAT ARE YOU NUTS....PLEASE do not no this ... You will spin a bearing ......Pull the bearing off the D-50 there the same ...And hone them out ...Us them to set up the diff ..Once the gear set is right ...Install the Quest bearings and buttin it up... One of these days someone on here with some "pull" on this forum is going to cut the bloody torque tube out of there car and clean up the wheel hop...As I have ...Whole new car once its done....!!!!!!.. I realy wish Chip would be the one to do it ... Then it would be respected...The more horse power you put to the tube the more it bounces around ... You wonder why auto cars have less wheel hop ..????????? The auto shifts faster then the tube can uncoil ... You can't shift a 5 speed fast anuff to keep the tube coiled... On gas the tube coils ...Lift to shift the tube uncoils ...Once the wheel hop starts it bounces off the tube ...... Sorry if I've uppset anyone on this .... David Hazardous Toys inc Edited December 20, 2008 by Haztoys1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haztoys1 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Man. Is it wrong to feel fine/confident about jumping into tearing down and rebuilding motors, but having serious doubts about rearends? lol Haztoys mentioned that damn near all of the stock SQ rears he saw were set up wrong from the factory. His statement didn't make me feel better about tearing one down at all. haha Then just pull your diff and head up the hill...and well get it done .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haztoys1 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 (edited) Cameras, gear oil and computers don't mix well. Adds time to a already time consuming job. The LSD re stack is done. I am getting closer on the pattern. I need to knuckle down and get this done. The old stack http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/d668a529.jpg The new stack http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/623e1f32.jpg And this is still wrong ...The "new stack" is OK but its loose.. If its not "draging" the out side wheel in the 7-11 parking lot with everyone looking at you funny its to loose for my liking.... Try is ... you did your stack like this ) ) | | | |--| | | | ( (.........I do them this way | ) | ( | |--| | ) | ( |....Anyone getting what I'm try to say here ??? .. Anyone see how if you stack it this way theres WAY more load on the plates ...??? ....The you need a press to do it ...And its a bit*&^h to line up ..But once you do one its not to bad to do more ... Edited December 20, 2008 by Haztoys1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haztoys1 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 TimC .... You still got the "little box" I mailed you some years ago with the hone set bearing and shims..???.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 But once you do one its not to bad to do more ... ................................................................................ ........... sort of like sex the more you do it the better you get at it what'd you do have to make a beer run old man good to see your still kickin Haz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Rpm at 70 mph. 3.90 with 245/50/16 =3068 3.90 with 225/50/16 =3165 3.54 with 225/50/16 =2866 You change your speedo drive gear?? -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 (edited) You change your speedo drive gear?? Rpm at 70 mph. 3.90 with 245/50/16 =3068 3.90 with 225/50/16 =3165 3.54 with 225/50/16 =2866 -Robert With the 245/50/16 The speedo reads 5mph high per GPS. I had a speedo here that reads 5 low across the board. I put that in and it was dead on. To me pulling needles off and indexing them is a hack job, but guys do it all the time to put on white face gauges. Had the car out with the 225/50/16 the other night and the above speedo was reading about 1.5-2 mph higher at 60mph per GPS. So the error with my original speedo would be around 7 mph at 70 mph. I fought with a corroded D50 trans only to find it had the same number of teeth (23) on the speedo gear. Not sure i want to do that agian till i figure out what trucks had what gear. From the 4x4 wire. I need to count the teeth on the output shaft, than i can calculate which gear would be best. GenI Speedometer Gears to compensate for larger tire sizes: MD705467 - Gear, Speedometer Drive (N=27) MD705466 - Gear, Speedometer Drive (N=26): For 4.625 gearing and stock tires* MD705464 - Gear, Speedometer Drive (N=24): For 4.625 gearing and 31" tires MD705463 - Gear, Speedometer Drive (N=23): For 4.625 gearing and 32" tires MD705462 - Gear, Speedometer Drive (N=22): For 4.625 gearing and 33" tires MD705461 - Gear, Speedometer Drive (N=21): For 4.625 gearing and 35" tires Other parts to go with that assembly: MF472536 - Spring Pin, Speedometer Drive Gear (3x16mm) MD701788 - O-ring, Speedometer Drive Gear (10.3mm) MF520403 - O-ring, Speedometer Drive Gear Casing (35mm) *Stock tire size is 225 or 235/75/R15 Edited December 20, 2008 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 And this is still wrong ...The "new stack" is OK but its loose.. If its not "draging" the out side wheel in the 7-11 parking lot with everyone looking at you funny its to loose for my liking.... Try is ... you did your stack like this ) ) | | | |--| | | | ( (.........I do them this way | ) | ( | |--| | ) | ( |....Anyone getting what I'm try to say here ??? .. Anyone see how if you stack it this way there's WAY more load on the plates ...??? ....The you need a press to do it ...And its a bit*&^h to line up ..But once you do one its not to bad to do more ... | ) | ( | |--| | ) | ( | Haztoys, can you clarify which is a plate, disk, spring plate and spring disk? Probably to tight for most people, but i may try one for drag or maybe take up road racing. They are putting in a track about 2 hours away. Thanks for your input. Maybe like this. | ) 1 { 2 3-- | = ) = 1 = { = 2= 3= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haztoys1 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 (edited) | ) | ( | |--| | ) | ( | Probably to tight for most people, but i may try one for drag or maybe take up road racing. Probably ..??? Your f*&%king joking right on this statement ............right...Now how may diff's or Quest diff's you set up ..?......LOL...?????????? Art's worked out ... Peace Edited December 21, 2008 by Haztoys1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted December 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 (edited) Haztoy1, i would like to try one stacked your way. I don't like canibalizing perfectly good rears for parts either. I want to be clear how you stack them. Is this what you suggest. From outside of diff plate spring plate cup out plate spring disk cup in plate disk inside of diff I have only done one quest rear so far. I have a 4.22 to do yet and will probably do a another 3.90 for the white car. So i have a lot to learn from those with more experiance. When i worked at Dyna corp in the late 80's to early 90's we built 200 Mack rears a day. I spent a lot on time in the backlash station (we could change pinion height on line with those rears), as well as the repair station. I also built probably close to 300 specials (we called them tractors and bombers) in a cell where i way responsible for the complete final assembly and testing. Mack used peanuts and cams for their LSD units. Thanks again for your input. Edited December 21, 2008 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Haztoys: I thought you fell off the face of the earth! It is good to hear from you again. Yes, I have the box. I'm actually using it to set up the rear now. I have a good friend who sets up custom rock crawler rears, etc... We looked at it a couple of weeks ago, and he thought if we flipped the spring discs back to back (Not litterally back to back, but the same way you are showing) like that, it would be too tight, plus we couldn't see how to do it since it is too big to get in! We thought about trying it, but after measuring everything, it looked too tight. I will talk to him again and we can try it your way, since I know you have done it and you're the pro! I don't care if it jumps the outside wheel a little. All my friends hot rods are set up tight like that. My friend wanted to just add one friction disc on each side. We didn't think about using a press. I noticed last week that your business card was on the box with the 3.90's I bought from you. I have a donor pumpkin we are using to set it up. If your number is the same I might give you a call. I just bought 2 friction discs (internal toothed ones) from StarquestRescue. Maybe now I don't need them, but no problem! We still want the discs because the donor rear ones don't look the greatest. I thought about buying new ones just to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Okay, we set up the carrier housing in mine today. It is like this from left outside away from the spider cluster to inside closer to the spider cluster. ) i i i i ( My friend wanted to retain the most friction disc contact as possible so only 2 friction faces are against the non-grooved spring discs instead of 4 faces. We put the external toothed spring discs toward the outside against the carrier cast so the teeth will stay put in the carrier slots and not spin to wear the carrier housing. We then went internal tooth friction disc, external tooth friction plate, internal, external, and finally the internal spring disc against the spider housing. We basically alternated external/internal the whole way. The book shows 2 internal tooth friction discs, and 2 external tooth friction plates, but the actual rear had 3 external and 1 internal (per side). We wanted 2 and 2, so I got the 2 discs. We didn't get finished installing the complete assembly because we didn't have the new front pinion bearing. It will be in on Friday and we can finish it then hopefully. We thought we had all of the new bearings, but we didn't have that one. All of the OEM bearings had some black striping from running too hot, so we replaced them. We did figure out the side shims and have a good contact patch on the ring gear with .007 backlash. We drew the carrier together with opposing bolts. We have a press, but it was easy to draw it up by hand with bolts and nuts to put the screws in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Tim, i would think that would be the tightest combo of parts. How soon will you be able to road test? I am all so curious what the final pinion height shim and side shim thicknesses end up being? When you replace that last bearing it may throw off the height and preload a little, but i am sure you guys know that. I worked on the 4.22 a little last night and also picked up a 3.90 at the u-pull it for the white car. Edited December 31, 2008 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Tim, i would think that would be the tightest combo of parts. How soon will you be able to road test? I am all so curious what the final pinion height shim and side shim thicknesses end up being? When you replace that last bearing it may throw off the height and preload a little, but i am sure you guys know that. I worked on the 4.22 a little last night and also picked up a 3.90 at the u-pull it for the white car. Yes, it was very tight with just one side in and turning the one side gear. It is too hard to turn by hand with the carrier all set up unless one guy holds it while the other guy uses all his grip to turn it. We think it will work very well. We still need to set up the pinion, so yes, things will change. We did use the same shims that were in it. I thnk left side was .013 and right was .018. We had them the other way and got .004 backlash, and thought that might be too tight so we swapped them and it came out to .007. book is .005 - .007. Probably .004 is preferred, but we weren't sure and wanted to be safe. Sweet! We did some calculations, and the 3.90 isn't really that big of a jump. My friends want me to find some 4.22's, but I want to still drive it on the highway and sould have no problem doing that. I may be hitting some u-pull-it yards next week in California. I forgot, what year Raiders and Monteros had 3.90's/4.22? What other vehicles had them? I may be able to come up with some. I usually just go for roller rockers and cam cores, and StarQuest parts if I run into one, which I have come across 3 in yards on my business trips in the last year. My problem is I probably won't have the tools to pull gears, but I can at least alert clubmembers who could go pull them for their car. I have fun just walking the yards and checking stuff out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I am not up on what went into the 86 and older pickup trucks. This is a generalization of what was used 87 on. The 3.90 was common in 4wd 2.6 5 spd trucks. Also found in 2.0 2wd trucks. The 4.22 was used in 4wd 2.6 4spd auto trucks (maybe only the long body). Also vans and 2.4 2wd trucks. The 4.22 was only used in the Montero up to 86 with the 3spd AUTO TRANS all others were 4.62 or a rare 4.88 87 on had this ID TAG. On a van it is on the pass seat riser behind the carpet i think. http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/ef8d6c73.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/b4d58c30.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/7400a7ad.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/06905409.jpg It is easy to pull these rears, once you ask the yard guy to pick up the rear end and shove some wheels under the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Tim personaly if the pattern look'd good i would have stay'd with the no load 04" back lash,,these diffs are not under load on the side gears when assemble'd and they will spread slightly under heavy load,, that would put you closer to .006" , starting with .007 would cause more lash under heavy load,, but again it all depends on the mesh marks spread cases and adjustable side gear diffs you are able to place the under a preload while you assemble the case,, quest specs give .004 to .006 , and carrier you can slide in is not under a lot of brg preload , with a good gear pattern you'l not get any noise any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks Shelby! I hope to get the front pinion bearing in Tomorrow, and get it together this week. Probably won't get it in for another couple of weeks though. We will swap the side shims and go with the .004 backlash. We must reassemble it anyway, so we will do that and check again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks too StarquestRescue! The yards in Cali usually have it up off the wheels already. I'll keep an eye out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Well, we have the diff all set up and rebuilt the torque tube. By the way, I can rebuild torque tubes now! I don't think I would be confortable doing a whole rear on my own yet though. This one was tough. We had to replace all bearings because the races and bearings had a black stripe from running too hot or low on gear oil, or both. I believe that made it a lot harder to get everything within spec and get a good pattern. The pattern is fine, but not centered exactly. We are a bit to the heel on the drive side, and a bit to the toe on coast side, but both are fully on the gear and do not go off the gear. The pattern is considered acceptable in all books that show pictures of acceptable and not acceptable. The standard my friend goes by is in this doc on this link: http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/HowTo/Te...nstructions.pdf He says that is the highest authority to follow when it comes to building rear ends. Of course the Mitsu book is the one we followed for building this rear. We had it apart many times. The new front pinion bearing changed everything as suspected. We did get the backlash a little tighter than before at .006. So, all things are in spec except a bit tighter rotating torque. It was 15 inch Lbs instead of 5. We have a decent enough pattern and a very tight friction disc stack. I hope to get it installed next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Tim did you replace the diff side bearings as well? I am not liking the ones on the rear i am working on now. I think these are the ones, ouch they are spendy. Two required. BCA/NATIONAL Part # KC11445Y {Width=0.7812" Stand Out=0.1875"} Taper Bearing Set; Rear Axle; Mitsubishi 8" R.G. $52.99 $0.00 $52.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts