mx-6 intake on an 88 conquest

[89onaquest]

roughly 88-92  mx-6 and probes.

 

so the one on the 2.2's?

Are the heads different? cause I have been told that the 2/2.2 heads are different, and subsequently the intakes are far different.

Not doubting you, or questioning you. Just asking.

[ALANFROMPDX]

Yes 2.2 head and it is different than ours.

Has the kidney shaped intake ports.

 

I have not been lucky enough to find a head uninstalled and do not want to pull one just to look at it.

 

I will measure the ports centerlined tonight.

geez, i really did some typin today eh.

 

Alan

[89onaquest]

Yes 2.2 head and it is different than ours.

Has the kidney shaped intake ports.

 

I have not been lucky enough to find a head uninstalled and do not want to pull one just to look at it.

 

I will measure the ports centerlined tonight.

geez, i really did some typin today eh.

 

Alan

Ok, if the ports are a different shape, how exactly are you planning on using the intake?

Or are you planning on swapping heads? or what?

[ALANFROMPDX]

It increases combustion turbulence lessening the possibility of detonation.

 

this is why most intakes are round at the plenum and kidney shaped at the entrance of the head.

 

Alot of the imports have this design.

I have been to the junkyards for months every weekend looking and sketching different cars intakes, exhaust gaskets. turbos, bypass valves from volvo and DSMs and probes.

 

And then I google stuff to figure it out.

Get familiar with how the NEW cars are and you will see some older cars that were doing it to.

Don't listen to anyone on here with out looking into it yourself there is alot to learn looking at other cars.

 

There are a few on here doing similar, just not posting.

Most folks including my self hate being shot down for wacky dreams but to tell you the truth everything i think has been done already and is proven in other designs.

 

2004 will be the year for us with all the intake designs and exhaust manifold. coil overs and camber kits.

gotta run

Alan

 

notice the magna head is kidney shaped on the combustion chamber.NOT A COINCIDENCE done intentional.

 

google me "kidney shaped combustion chamber" read up and ask yourself if the magna head is a better design.

YUP.

 

 

Alan From Portland

[ALANFROMPDX]

Old school way was to have the combustion chamber round but notice how heads Now are also kidney'd.

bolted to a round cylinder (combustion chamber).

[89onaquest]

ok, I know about kidney ports, and kidney/heart chambers.

The kidney shape causes the incoming air to naturally "swirl" and it increases velocity over the valve head. Same principal in the cumbustion chamber design.

 

But my question is, the ports on the MX6 intake, are kidney. You are tring to get them to fit a round port.  How? OR, are you using a Magna head? Are the port shapes different on those? If so, then hell yeah. I am just hacked off cause I got a new ported round eye sitting here...

 

The abrupt change in port shape will cause havoc for flow and velocity.

[89onaquest]

are you looking at making a new mounting plate? an adapter plate?

Cutting the old plate off and reshaping the tubes somehow then welding on a newplate?

 

I am just tring to picture how you going to do what your tring to do. I have a mind for engineering, I can do most stuff in my head. Came from doing what I did for over 20 years...

[Joel]

It increases combustion turbulence lessening the possibility of detonation.

 

this is why most intakes are round at the plenum and kidney shaped at the entrance of the head.

 

Please cite examples. "Kidney shaped inlet ports" are generally used on DOHC heads where there are two valve ports siamesed into one external (larger) port. The onset of detonation would likely never be influenced based on a kidney shape alone. Thats like claiming that one set of wings works for all airplanes. You can't build the wings... or the airplane independantly. Just doesn't work that way. I would really like to know where that information came from.

 

Alot of the imports have this design.

I have been to the junkyards for months every weekend looking and sketching different cars intakes, exhaust gaskets. turbos, bypass valves from volvo and DSMs and probes.

 

And then I google stuff to figure it out.

Get familiar with how the NEW cars are and you will see some older cars that were doing it to.

Don't listen to anyone on here with out looking into it yourself there is alot to learn looking at other cars.

 

There are a few on here doing similar, just not posting.

Most folks including my self hate being shot down for wacky dreams but to tell you the truth everything i think has been done already and is proven in other designs.

 

2004 will be the year for us with all the intake designs and exhaust manifold. coil overs and camber kits.

gotta run

Alan

 

notice the magna head is kidney shaped on the combustion chamber.NOT A COINCIDENCE done intentional.

 

google me "kidney shaped combustion chamber" read up and ask yourself if the magna head is a better design.

YUP.

 

 

Alan From Portland

 

The Combustion chamber is a different story. Unless you KNOW what you are doing.. or have alot of money, stay away. I am one that will be doing a 3rd gen magna. Those combustion chambers are better... but far from ideal.

 

Joel

[spoolinturbo]

i have seen in person a 485HP mx6 turbo. thankyou very much. he also said theres more he could do.

jeff

[Joel]

Right now God is writing on Joels file

 

"DOES NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS"

 

Luckily my money makes up for my lack of knowledge.

 

best of luck to ya.

 

 

Hmm... Well, at least now I know you have no idea what you are talking about?

 

My intention was to inquire for knowledge, not get a useless reply back.  I was not trying to offend. Apparently I did. Welcome to the internet, eh?

 

Thanks for your response.

 

Joel

[ALANFROMPDX]

I guess your statement stating i do not KNOW got to me.

But i do HAVE MONEY and will continue on this because i can.

Joel you are correct, i should keep my information to myself until i am sure it is correct.

And if i am wrong could you step in and teach the class.

There are alot of people interested in learning about this and if you have knowledge how can we get some? care to share

I am sure i am not the only one trying to do something different out of frustrations with the original equipment we have been given.

 

And you are correct i have no idea of what i am talking about and if you can help me or others than step up and help us understand.

 

No one has an idea til it is done, that is why in school they do a hands on.

That is what the lab is, unfortunately my lab is my daily driver and that really makes it difficult.

 

MY knowledge in port design is back issues of turbo magazine Hot rod and etc.

It is enough to get me to start thinking maybe i should try. I will admit i may be waisting my time but i choose to try.

 

My knowledge is Metallurgy and Non Destructive Testing mainly Radiography not cars I have many years in the aerospace industry and have managed a group of the best the company had to offer which helps me get some of this expensive stuff done on the cheap. I have alot of people i can rely on as far as fabricating and testing.

And all i am looking for is a little help, can you expand this tread with your knowledge.

My knowledge is in manufacturing and in an aerospace industry it is technically fabrication due to the alloys and manufactures specifications.

 

 

Should the intake manifold be matched to the head or should the head me matched to the oval shaped intake?

 

What would joel do?

 

I am sure you think it is stupid but what would you do? something has to change between the 2.

 

I can have any and all changes made with inspection but need advice.

can you help?

[89onaquest]

Allan, I am all for finding a cheaper alternative to the Magna.

I am even going as far as to completely and totally destroying the stocker so I can get a good/excellent mounting flange to use, and fab my own intake.

 

I have compared the 2 gaskets (mazda/conquest) and the only thing that can be done is to overbore the intake and weld patches to the top and bottom to cover the holes made.

 

Trust me, you cannot get the head bored that much to fit the intake. I know from experiance. You can only get around 1/8" on the ports. The only alternative is to weld in "filler" plates to get the port size down on the top/bottom.

[DSMracespeed]

I have a 2.2 mx-6/probe intake and the runners don't seem to line up perfectly.I can e-mail pics if anyone wants some.

 

Jerry L.

[Dcrasta]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

NOt to rain on anyone's parade, but I think this has been discussed before..  :

[smog]

Man this got ugly. I've been thinking about fabbing the parts for my own intake for a wihle now. I've decided cost wise that its cheaper to make a 8 injector intake using ford cobra or lightning injectors. You can get used sets on ebay for around 100 bucks. I'm thinking short runners, and a probably just a cylinder shaped plenium. A surge tank like the new hks 2jzgte intake is a little beyond any skill I might have.

 

I just need to figure out how to make a fuel rail, or possibly get one from a junkyard car,

[ESIrType?]

I just need to figure out how to make a fuel rail, or possibly get one from a junkyard car,

 

 

http://www.sdsefi.com/techrail.htm

 

Shawn

[smog]

Ohh awesome, thanks. I'm going to read pu on this after I get back from the u pull it

[Grey_Wulf]

Hes full of it.

 

 Kurt

word, this is bs....

[lionbull]

What happened to the guy who started this post

[Grey_Wulf]

He went bask to BSville?

 

First off, I have a Magna and it's not a huge improvement over the stock TB.  Now then, why is it that people without any real knowledge are thinking that they "need" MPI and that the TBI is holding their 12a 185whp car back?  

 

As for the mods list in the first post;

 How is it you have the mazda "fuel computer" and not the whole ECU?  If you do have the whole ECU then how is it controling timing on a conquest?

 Greddy E-Manage is junk!  It won't pull timing in compensation for boost, which compounds your first problem.  

 How many "headers" do you have on you Conquest?

 I'm hoping you didn't lighten the stock flywheel to 16.5lbs, i've heard of nothing but problems with them below 21lbs.  I have a 11lbs Fidanza and love it!  If you have ever seen what happens to a flywheel when it lets go, you won't be choping them up.

 6 puck clutches are junk aswell.  No conquest can make to much power for a disc.  Find a good disk and save your drivetrain.

 370cc injectors?  That "fuel cut" of yours might be a true fuel cut due to knock.  370cc can't feed a thing.  You need atleast 550cc.

 Schneider cams ain't where it's at.  They were an ok upgrade back when that was the only choice.  Now we have Tim C.  He is making cams that really work with and for our mighty G54BT.

[lionbull]

Amen to that!

[Grey_Wulf]

Here's a thought...

 

We copy the design of something that really works.  The HKS or Veilside RB26DETT intake manifolds look and perform more to my taste.  I'd like to get in touch with the folks from AIR (Advanced Intake Research), and see if I can't get something sexy fabbed up in Carbon-fiber.  That along with a HKS GT3037S, an Apex'i GT-R core'd intercooler, very well ported Non-JV head, Pauter rods, costom Ross or Mahle pistons....

....MoTec Standalone and J&S Knock Control (Chamber specific timing and knock control)

Sounds like a good street car.

Here in Minnesota, we are driving 400+WHP (on pump, mind you) 4-cyl. imports.  This might sound crazy to some, but the days of thinking a 17C is a good turbo and 210 at the wheels is "done" , those days are over.  

[turbocraft29]

He went bask to BSville?

 

First off, I have a Magna and it's not a huge improvement over the stock TB.  Now then, why is it that people without any real knowledge are thinking that they "need" MPI and that the TBI is holding their 12a 185whp car back?  

 

As for the mods list in the first post;

 How is it you have the mazda "fuel computer" and not the whole ECU?  If you do have the whole ECU then how is it controling timing on a conquest?

 Greddy E-Manage is junk!  It won't pull timing in compensation for boost, which compounds your first problem.  

 How many "headers" do you have on you Conquest?

 I'm hoping you didn't lighten the stock flywheel to 16.5lbs, i've heard of nothing but problems with them below 21lbs.  I have a 11lbs Fidanza and love it!  If you have ever seen what happens to a flywheel when it lets go, you won't be choping them up.

 6 puck clutches are junk aswell.  No conquest can make to much power for a disc.  Find a good disk and save your drivetrain.

 370cc injectors?  That "fuel cut" of yours might be a true fuel cut due to knock.  370cc can't feed a thing.  You need atleast 550cc.

 Schneider cams ain't where it's at.  They were an ok upgrade back when that was the only choice.  Now we have Tim C.  He is making cams that really work with and for our mighty G54BT.

 

 

 

Mr grey

 

 

first of all    I'm using the mazda ecu  with its disturbitor which controls the fuel injectors

and timing.   I installed the chip that removes the fuel cut. i'm not using e mange don't need it .   this car is still running with a stock engine and stock cam.

i'm using 16.5 lighten stock fly wheel.  On my black starion i have the  11lbs fidanza.

why are u mad or try to put  down my setup.

i'm  here to try  to help others to make the starquest faster.

this was my  idea so i did it and it work.

When i  blow wrxs, turbo neons,  evos  I'm doing over 350 hp of power

my freind has  an 87 starion with  marnel head , forged pistons, 274 cam and a 20G

@ 15 psi and balance shafts removed. and i still pull away  in any gear

you here stuff that can't work or the the the flywheel is  to light

well it works  and i have proof

don't u think after all of the work that  i did i know about that.

[Grey_Wulf]

Say whatever you want, it's the mod list of yours thats really doing the talking.  So you are making +350WHP with 370cc injectors?  Can't happen.  Just so you understand, that's less deliverable than stock!  So once again, TB would have done fine.  So why are you so fast?

[ESIrType?]

So you are making +350WHP with 370cc injectors?  Can't happen.  

 

 

I disagree...and here's why. He has more than enough fuel to support 350 HP at the crank running at less than 80% cycle duty. That's with 4*370 cc injectors.

 

Do the math,

 

((hp*5)*0.80)/4=CC's per min needed

 

HP*5=total cc's per min needed of fuel.

0.8 is for 80% cycle duty

4 is for a 4 injector setup

 

That's how it works.

 

I don't understand why people have a hard time accepting this. It can be done and he has pictures of the manifold to prove it. Other things like this have been done like the 110 amp, GM/Mitsu hybrid alternators. It can be done!

For basic FI systems only a few things are needed like with our cars and obviously the mazada comp he used, for sensors.

Alot of sensors all read the same paraments, such as o2's, tps's and so on.

 

I think this artical might help you understand this a little better.

 

http://www.howstuffworks.com/fuel-injection.htm

 

Shawn