ucw458 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Not 100% sure on your this, but I feel that I read numerous times that a wideband o2 is too sensitive for being that close to the turbo. Something about prematurely burning up. Think it's something like 16inches from the turbo is optimal for the reading? Correct me if I missread/remembered That's what they claim but myself and other members have their sensor that close and have yet to burn one up. The heated sensor isn't heated 100% of the time. It gets to temp then shuts off. If the heater was on all the time then the sensor would burn up the first time you used it. Furthermore look at all the new cars running the same sensor. Most have them close to the turbo or close to the cat. If it was a problem the they wouldn't be so close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 That's what they claim but myself and other members have their sensor that close and have yet to burn one up. The heated sensor isn't heated 100% of the time. It gets to temp then shuts off. If the heater was on all the time then the sensor would burn up the first time you used it. Furthermore look at all the new cars running the same sensor. Most have them close to the turbo or close to the cat. If it was a problem the they wouldn't be so close.On my 3" downpipe, my O2 is 8" from the turbo, no issues. However! On my old car, on the stock exhaust, about 40" downstream I kept over heating the O2 kicking it off. So the better flow helps keep it cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr-starion Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Per your profile you have a '87 TSI Conquest. As stated above, the OEM stock Mitsu pump is MORE THAN ADEQUATE for running the 14G turbo with the OEM Stock Mitsu "87 - '89 injectors. However you must make sure that the 2 strainers on the fuel pump suction side are clean, the fuel pump discharge check valve/pulsation damperner is clean and that the filter in the engine house is clean. If you want to get the MOST PUNCH FOR THE BUCK, upgrade your '87 EFI ECU to a "88/"89 EFI ECU. Those ECU's (188 HP @ 5000 RPM, 234 FT LB torque @ 2500 RPM) have much better fuel maps than the '87 ECU (176 HP @ 5000 RPM & 223 FT LBS torque @ 2300 RPM). Plus, the dealer installed 14G turbo option was only available in '88 & '89. Mitsu incorporated additional fuel maps into the '88/'89 EFI ECU to take full advantage of the increased boost & CFM's that the 14G turbo provided plus some. I'd spend the money on installing the '88/'89 EFI ECU and making sure that your fuel system is totally clean. It makes no sense to me, to install a larger capacity fuel pump to handle the increased CFM capacity of the 14G if the '87 EFI ECU fuel maps do not support this upgrade. I'm still running the ORIGINAL FACTORY OEM fuel pump and after 465K miles it's still putting out the factory spec on volumn and pressure, for the boost. See FSM, Page 14-38 & 39 for how to measure this and the specs. There are numerous posts, in the SQC history archives, about running the OEM factory '88/89 EFI ECU, fuel pump, injectors & regulator plus mods to the air intake system, head and exhaust system, to achieve 350 + HP at the rear wheels. Save your money and find a '88/'89 EFI ECU on the Parts For Sale Forum. While you're at it, replace your '87 Ignitor with a '88/89 one so you are not left stranded in the side of the road cuz the '87 Ignitor went molehills up when you are 100 miles away from home. See the tail end of the OP to http://www.starquest...showtopic=66449 to find out what inexpensive & easy mods that you can do to get an additional 45 - 60 HP out of an otherwise OEM Stock 87/'88/'89 Starquest exclusive of the 14G mod. For What It's Worth. KEN BTW - Make sure that you do not have any error codes - cuz that screws up the EFI ECU if you do. Haha, oops! I think i got someone going, 452 000 miles is alot!! My OEM fuel pump crapped out at 45000 miles, i guess i didnt drive it enough:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr-starion Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 465 000* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Haha, oops! I think i got someone going, 452 000 miles is alot!! My OEM fuel pump crapped out at 45000 miles, i guess i didnt drive it enough:( Fuel pumps don't like sitting for long periods. But it's not the pumps fault it's the gas. When the gas degrades in the pump it coats the brushes and comm with a layer of varnish. A light layer gets scraped off but if it's thick enough it prevents the brushes from making electrical contact with the comm and the pump wont work. That's why a car can be running when parked but a year or 2 later the fuel pump doesn't work when the car is revived. Since most pumps can't be dis-assembled and cleaned easily they just get replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 That's what they claim but myself and other members have their sensor that close and have yet to burn one up. The heated sensor isn't heated 100% of the time. It gets to temp then shuts off. If the heater was on all the time then the sensor would burn up the first time you used it. Furthermore look at all the new cars running the same sensor. Most have them close to the turbo or close to the cat. If it was a problem the they wouldn't be so close. This is interesting. I'd always understood the opposite myself. Will give it a try when I get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighterpilot Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Haha, oops! I think i got someone going, 452 000 miles is alot!! My OEM fuel pump crapped out at 45000 miles, i guess i didnt drive it enough:(Nah!!! Your Starquest was probabily habitually running at less than a 1/4 tank of fuel or it ran out of gas NUMEROUS times. That will trash ANY electric fuel pump real fast. For What It's Worth. KEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr-starion Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Nah!!! Your Starquest was probabily habitually running at less than a 1/4 tank of fuel or it ran out of gas NUMEROUS times. That will trash ANY electric fuel pump real fast. For What It's Worth. KEN Haha ya i ran it a few times at a quarter but i never ran it out of gas, damn gas is at $1.70 a litre ($6.42 a galon for you american folks) here for 94 octane, do ya blame me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullbore576 Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Per your profile you have a '87 TSI Conquest. As stated above, the OEM stock Mitsu pump is MORE THAN ADEQUATE for running the 14G turbo with the OEM Stock Mitsu "87 - '89 injectors. However you must make sure that the 2 strainers on the fuel pump suction side are clean, the fuel pump discharge check valve/pulsation damperner is clean and that the filter in the engine house is clean. If you want to get the MOST PUNCH FOR THE BUCK, upgrade your '87 EFI ECU to a "88/"89 EFI ECU. Those ECU's (188 HP @ 5000 RPM, 234 FT LB torque @ 2500 RPM) have much better fuel maps than the '87 ECU (176 HP @ 5000 RPM & 223 FT LBS torque @ 2300 RPM). Plus, the dealer installed 14G turbo option was only available in '88 & '89. Mitsu incorporated additional fuel maps into the '88/'89 EFI ECU to take full advantage of the increased boost & CFM's that the 14G turbo provided plus some. I'd spend the money on installing the '88/'89 EFI ECU and making sure that your fuel system is totally clean. It makes no sense to me, to install a larger capacity fuel pump to handle the increased CFM capacity of the 14G if the '87 EFI ECU fuel maps do not support this upgrade. I'm still running the ORIGINAL FACTORY OEM fuel pump and after 465K miles it's still putting out the factory spec on volumn and pressure, for the boost. See FSM, Page 14-38 & 39 for how to measure this and the specs. There are numerous posts, in the SQC history archives, about running the OEM factory '88/89 EFI ECU, fuel pump, injectors & regulator plus mods to the air intake system, head and exhaust system, to achieve 350 + HP at the rear wheels. Save your money and find a '88/'89 EFI ECU on the Parts For Sale Forum. While you're at it, replace your '87 Ignitor with a '88/89 one so you are not left stranded in the side of the road cuz the '87 Ignitor went molehills up when you are 100 miles away from home. See the tail end of the OP to http://www.starquest...showtopic=66449 to find out what inexpensive & easy mods that you can do to get an additional 45 - 60 HP out of an otherwise OEM Stock 87/'88/'89 Starquest exclusive of the 14G mod. For What It's Worth. KEN BTW - Make sure that you do not have any error codes - cuz that screws up the EFI ECU if you do. Thanks Ken. I installed an 89 ECM about four or five years ago and was amazed at the performance gains with just that simple upgrade. The one thing I did noticeafter installing it was that I lost my cold start high idle. Runs fine when warm, just dosent raise the idle slightjy higher when started cold. I tried a TPS reset but it hadno effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasQuest Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 For a 14G you just need good stock injectors and a healthy stock size pump. Also I respect other opinions on wideband placement but please do not place it directly behind the turbo. Put it directly after the bend on the downpipe, it will get an accurate enough reading without taking heat abuse and shortening it's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullbore576 Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 So with the widwband installed, all you can do is observe air/fuel mixtures and see how the car is running at high RPM under load? Adjustments CANNOT bemade with the wideband correct? Once a problem has been determined, either running rich or lean, then repairs can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malykaii Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 One affordable option on adding a tunning and adjustability feature is to run maf-t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edde Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 So with the widwband installed, all you can do is observe air/fuel mixtures and see how the car is running at high RPM under load? Adjustments CANNOT bemade with the wideband correct? Once a problem has been determined, either running rich or lean, then repairs can be made. Correct, no adjustment, just monitoring. Repairs you might say would actually have to be a management system, maf-t, or other piggyback AEM Uego, etc. With wideband monitoring you're going to see stuff that's already present just not seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullbore576 Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Can a wideband record an incident that occurs such as a misfire or lean/rich condition so information can be read? Or do you have to diagnose and figureout if it is an ignition or fuel related problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasQuest Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 A wideband can detect a possible misfire condition but no recording data. Like said above it's merely a monitoring device that can help detect possible issues and use to fine tune when other engine modifications are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullbore576 Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 It would be nice if they had a recording option. Sometimes when it bucks or snorts you are not paying attention to the wideband and are not sure if itwent rich or lean. Some higher end scan tools have that option and it sure makes it nice to diagnose problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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