anti lag

[Agressivedsm]

I ve heard the battles of if its anti lag, 2step or rev limiter. I my DSM has ecmlink that has a section for antilag settings. Not sure on the proper terms but either way...... It kicks tail!

[Funky Phil]

anti lag is antilag is anti-lag. Doesnt matter how you make it work. If it prevents lag, well.....

[Starion86ESI]

An ALS requires an air bypass, generally done in one of two ways. The first method is to use a throttle air bypass; this may be an external bypass valve or a solenoid valve which opens the throttle 12-20 degrees. This allows air to bypass the closed throttle and to reach the engine. The second method is to use a bypass valve which feeds charge air directly to the exhaust manifold.

[Starion86ESI]

When the driver lifts his foot from the gas pedal the ignition timing is altered with sometimes 40° or more of delay (retard) and the intake air and fuel supply mixture is made richer. The inlet butterfly is kept slightly open or an air injector, bypassing the inlet butterfly, is used to maintain air supply to the engine. This results in air/fuel mixture that keeps getting in the combustion chambers when the driver no longer accelerates. The ignition being severely delayed, the air/fuel mixture reaches the exhaust tubes mostly unburned. When the spark plug fires, the exhaust valve is starting to open due to the ignition delay mentioned above. Additionally, the exhaust temperature being extremely high, the unburned fuel explodes at the contact of the exhaust tubes. Luckily the turbo sits right there and the explosion keeps it turning (otherwise it would slow down since its intake, the exhaust gases, is cut-off). The effect is vastly lower response times with some downsides:

[Agressivedsm]

So how do we get our cars exhaust to sound like this? Not the antilag or two step or anything like that just the plain old bad tail tractor exhaust. Will straight pipe do the job? Will a resonator or maybe an n1 style muffler kill the sound?

[Funky Phil]

your just talking about 1 method of anti-lag. The purpose of anti-lag is to eliminate ...?

All anti lag does is create a combustion event in the exhaust. And there are many ways to do it. Your arguing the difference between an afterburner and augmenter when in reality the do the same thing. One more effective, but that is only relative to what you use it for.

 

 

yes straight 2.5" pipe will surely give you a forklift sounding engine. Make your own post when you have a question away from the topic.

[jszucs]

Anti lag does not create a "fake" load by droping spark. it uses blow through and totally wacked out timing. They are diffrent things. I'm guessing this is only active for you for launch and not for between shifts also?

[Starion86ESI]

your just talking about 1 method of anti-lag. The purpose of anti-lag is to eliminate ...?

All anti lag does is create a combustion event in the exhaust. And there are many ways to do it. Your arguing the difference between an afterburner and augmenter when in reality the do the same thing. One more effective, but that is only relative to what you use it for.

 

 

yes straight 2.5" pipe will surely give you a forklift sounding engine. Make your own post when you have a question away from the topic.

 

You use no form of anti-lag. Anti-lag is to prevent lag. In a quarter mile you do not encounter lag very much or at all really. You use 2 step which is just a form of rev limiting.

 

True Anti-Lag:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h4M7TNueV4

Edited January 31, 2014 by Starion86ESI

[Funky Phil]

A lot of assuming going on here guys.

 

That "totally whacked out timing" is creating a load. 2step is nothing more than a 2nd limiter as you said.

 

My "launch control" alters fuel maps, ignition timing and drops spark when I hit my 2step limit, and again everytime I shift. And if I want it to operate at Idle, I have settings for that too. I dont HAVE to be at WOT to make it build, That would be counter-productive in a heads-up situation.

 

Have you run in a Dig race? Lag is a huge problem.

 

Your little down shifting scenario, I also use it then. Going from 3-2 I can be at low rpm and clutch it, It will energize the 2STEP and cut my spark until I fall to my desired setting, lets say 5500rpm, at which time the flatshift/launch control function is operating, throwing my "totally whacked out timing" retard and holding me at boost.....

......wait... did that just prevent lag on a downshift? So it worked against lag?

 

I can also be cruising in 2nd gear at 2000rpm, clutch it,WOT, LC/FS will activate,shift to 3, and I will be at full boost in a split sec, release the clutch and it full roll tires begging for traction. Wait.....did I just eliminate lag again???? Just because it isnt operating at idle doesnt mean it isnt a form of anitlag. It just means I dont want it to operate at idle.

 

I have seen 8spi just fooling around with the settings at 1200rpm with my foot off the throttle. And that with a 62mm turbine wheel. I dont like it because it will heat up your engine in a hurry.

 

So tell me how that is not a form of anti-lag?

 

Problem is, people often refer to a 2step as launch control or visa versa, which is completely incorrect. Did you know that B&M refers to its line lock as a launch control when its actually a "roll" control?

 

So in reality, you 2 have no idea what Im using.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Funky Phil

[scott87star]

Anti lag is anti lag, you are eliminating the lag, doesn't it seem obvious it would be done differently based on the application?

 

Or is that only me?

[Funky Phil]

Exactly what Im saying Scott.

[Starion86ESI]

You have no idea what lag is. Lag is when you get off the throttle and back on, how quick it takes the engine to build up boost. The time it takes a turbo to spool up is called the boost threshold.

[Funky Phil]

I just have to quote this.

 

You have no idea what lag is. Lag is when you get off the throttle and back on, how quick it takes the engine to build up boost. The time it takes a turbo to spool up is called the boost threshold.

 

You just stated that the two are the same. How quick? you mean How long? As in a time frame.

 

so you say, "lag is how quick (long) it takes to build boost."

then say, "the time it takes to spool up is boost threshold" Spool up to what? Where it begins to make boost?

 

Lag is the duration of time it takes to deliver boost. In that time, the turbo is spooling. "Boost Threshold" refers to engine speed. As in, the RPM at which your turbo should go from no pressure to positive pressure. Hence the term threshold, like crossing a threshold.

 

When people talk about when they see boost, for example its making boost at 3000rpm, they are talking about the threshold. Now if they were cruising at 3000rpm and then nailed it, the time it took at that point to make boost, is Lag. you dont have to "let off" to experience lag.

 

So yes, my system allows me to never have to deal with lag.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Funky Phil

[Funky Phil]

Did you know referring to a dollar as a "buck" came from the early days of barter? Rather than saying that will cost a dollar (seeing as there was no money) they would advertise the cost of something as 1 buck skin or more.

[screemin eagle]

No lag in drag racing? Obviously you have never driven a larger turbo stick car on a 1/4 mile race track. It's sad how much the knowledgable people in this community cripple these cars from making real power.

[Starion86ESI]

His is auto

[Agressivedsm]

Dear God what have I done, lol

[jszucs]

Anti lag is anti lag, you are eliminating the lag, doesn't it seem obvious it would be done differently based on the application?

 

Or is that only me?

 

By this logic you could call my DSG an anti lag system because you never lift, the throtel plate never closes and it makes shifts so fast there is no boost lost........ I would hardly call a DSG an anti lag system..... would you?

 

and in a true anti lag system it does not use crazy timing to create a fake load but to allow gas and 02 to blow though and then be ignited down stream. The down stream (in manifold and exaust) explosion is what is spinning up the turbo.

 

In Phills applicaiton it uses a fake load by droping spark to basicly not let the motor just free spin so that you can have a load to make boost against. The explosion is mainly taken place in the combustion chamber as normal and the fuel and 02 from the dropped spark cylinder is exploding in the exaust (hence the flames) but is mainly a by prouduct and not the driving force that is building boost.

 

While what you are doing is effective it is NOT anti lag.

[Funky Phil]

haha this is hilarious.

Does your dsg allow you to sit still while at full boost?

 

Then you say the antilag system uses exhaust explosion to drive the turbo, but not on mine? So magically theres no drive pressure coming from a tube restricted explosion on my setup?

 

Haha then you say the ignition retard doesnt create a load on the rally car but on mine it does? Magic again?

 

Every statement you make contradicts itself. All in pursuit of the last word. HAHA, well you can have it.

 

 

 

 

[jszucs]

haha this is hilarious.

Does your dsg allow you to sit still while at full boost?

 

Then you say the antilag system uses exhaust explosion to drive the turbo, but not on mine? So magically theres no drive pressure coming from a tube restricted explosion on my setup?

 

Haha then you say the ignition retard doesnt create a load on the rally car but on mine it does? Magic again?

 

Every statement you make contradicts itself. All in pursuit of the last word. HAHA, well you can have it.

 

No not what I'm saying at all. I am trying to be concice so we are talking about things correctly.

 

A true anti lag system uses ether blow though, or a secondary system to introduce more air and fuel down stream from the combustion chamber. Where it is ignited in the manifold or exaust and the down stream explosion (outside the cylinder combustion chamber) is what is driving the turbo.

 

In your setup, the explosion is occuring in the cumbustion chamber and the flames are seen out the exaust from the air fuel from the cylinder (s) that are dropped to create a load. The explosion in the non droped cylinders exaust event is then spooling up the turbo, and the cylinders the spark is dropped on is keeping the motor from just free reving up.

 

Both systems are efective, they are just two diffrent ways of doing so.

 

Here think of it this way. If "anything" that created boost while sitting on the line could be called "anti lag system" then power braking will allow you to build boost while sitting still.... is that Anti Lag?

 

And yes I guess you could contorl the twin clutches in a DSG to allow you to build boost sitting still, but you would definalty make allot of heat and burn up some really expensive friction plates.

Edited February 3, 2014 by jszucs

[Funky Phil]

again you dont know what your talking about. You refer to my car like you have any clue at all what I have. I can develop boost long before I go against the limiter.

 

I use the limiter to ensure I am at the RPM I wish to leave at for consistent 60' times.

 

My 2step has nothing to do with the spooling effect although it does help. There are only occassional flames unless i am against the the hardcut. Otherwise when I have it set at idle it would look like a torch. Instead all you here is spool and registered boost on the gage with absolutely ZERO throttle or 2step activity.

 

No, a trans brake and auto negate the need for an "anti-lag" type system. Now your trying to call a boat a car when its on the trailer.

How many teams can you prove have an extra ignitor solely for their "Anti-Lag" system? You will find they use the combustion chamber as the ignition source. which is the reason for the ignition retard. To ensure it is lit when the exhaust valves are open. A byproduct of timing retard reduces the engines ability to burn all of the fuel allowing it and the unused oxygen also into the exhaust tract to spool the turbo.

I am basically using an afterburn style whereas the "anti-lag" you refer to is an augmented style.

 

Dont get confused by the flames. Your just chasing herring.

 

[jszucs]

So what system is controling your setup then? You can flip a switch and touch nothing else and push 10 15 20 #'s? Something has got to be atleast opening the throtel plate, especially if your doing a blow though format