Burton Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) OK, we've seen these before... Someone wants to make some FG parts, but knows nothing about making FG parts and figure since there's CF hoods for Civics out there for $300, then we for sure can get some for an obscure car like the SQ for $200 or less. Usually in these threads they spiral out of control and people get ahead of themselves wanting the biggest baddest parts (like carbon fiber fenders and doors), and in the end, it goes nowhere. This thread's gonna be a bit different. I already know what everyone is "interested" in, from the dozens of other threads like this. The stuff that had the most interest like rear spoilers and header panels will get made first, then I'll be considering the bigger, badder stuff, if my supplier can get it to me for a price point that people here can afford. Some of you know I already make FG parts. I've been making FG SQ hoods for around $400 for a while now, and even at that price, they hardly sell (especially when you add $300+ for shipping). I also got into making smaller FG parts like spoilers and such for the Kia Forte Koup and other cars, which actually have been doing very well. smaller parts that are $250 or less and have minimal shipping cost sell much better than the larger, more expensive stuff. Lately, I've been staying away from doing anything but the small stuff, because in order for me to make what I need to for my hourly wage, The price for the big parts is more than what most people are willing to spend. It's hard for me to justify making $5-10 an hour to make a hood when I got half a dozen people wanting to pay me $20 an hour to paint their cars. Anyway, my old boss at the restoration shop I used to work at has expanded his business into the Philippines. He's having as much of his labor as possible done over there because the people over there are as talented, if not more, than the people he has here, plus each employee over there works for about $10 a day. They do a little restoration type stuff there, but mostly, he's having them build all steel T-Bucket bodies, and is wanting to start getting into all steel 32 Roadster bodies too. He's an old school rodder and is all about all steel bodies, but because of the cost difference between steel and fiberglass bodies, he realizes that most people go with FG bodies because they're cheaper, and there's a better profit margin selling FG bodies. That's where I came in. He knows I was a mold maker in MI for 12 years and that I have been messing around with FG parts since I started my own thing, so he called me in to pick my brain a little bit. He's interested in producing FG bodies, but before he hired some full time FG guys, he wanted to make sure I thought it could be profitable. He also wants to figure out some other smaller parts that could be made in order to to keep his FG guys busy when they aren't making bodies. We came up with some new ideas for some parts of cars that he's interested in, but I also got him wanting to send my molds over there and have his guys make my parts for me. Of course, he'd want a cut of the money for all my parts, but we could both make a little money, and I'd be able to sell things cheaper than I can now. The great thing is the guys he can hire can make the molds too, and told him they can recreate any part he gives them, as well as be able to modify parts the way he wants and then take molds from those modified parts. He has seen their work and knows they do quality stuff. They each have over 20 years in making fiberglass parts and molds. The only down side to this is the time it's going to take to get things going. My old boss sends shipping containers over there and back about 4 times a year. All the FG stuff going over and coming back make good filler in the containers, and wouldn't add cost to the shipping since it's a flat rate per container. He's sending the next one around Feb., and I'll be sending some of my molds over to have a few parts made. I might send a part or two to have molds and parts made too. Of course, that means it would probably be early summer before the parts made it back over here. If the quality is to my liking, then I'll have more parts made on the molds, and also send some other parts over to get molds made. If all goes well, it could be a good way to get some quality parts for our cars for a decent price. Trying to make all this stuff on my own at my labor rate just won't happen but having them do it, opens a lot of doors. Anyway, this is kinda what I'm lookin at for parts and prices, also in order of availability. -Hoods- $300ish plus shipping. I already sell them for $420 plus shipping, but hoping to get the price of the part and shipping down. I would like to be in the range of $500-600 shipped, instead of $700-800 shipped like they are now. I'll get the cowl style done first, then if they do good, I'll have them do the 83 replica style too. If those two do well at a lower price, then I may have them make a mold for a 3rd style, but that would be WAY down the road, and only if the others sell decent- I don't want to spend a bunch of money making a hood mold, only to sell 2 parts off of it. -Header panel- $200ish plus shipping. I will be sending Kate's header panel to have that molded and recreated in fiberglass. That style has sold very well as a modified OEM part, so it would make sense to pony up for a mold to make the same thing in FG. If it sells good like I think it will, then I will be making other style header panels, having them molded and offering those too, but that's down the road. -Upper Hatch spoiler- $125ish plus shipping. This will be for a new style spoiler. It won't be like the Supra style that's out there now. The one I've designed sticks to the glass all the way across, and covers the ugly hinges for a cleaner look. The look of it will mimic the factory lower hatch spoiler. I might make a Supra style one later if the first one I offer does good, but for now, I have no desire to offer copycat parts of stuff that's out there already. -Extended rear hatch spoiler- $300ish plus shipping. This would be a little more aggressive looking and also eliminate the antenna hump, wiper and probably 3rd brake light. IF I did have it with a 3rd brake light, it would not be able to use the OEM light, so it would have to be a LED unit, and that setup would be sure to raise the cost, but probably not too much. Somewhere in there I will probably send some small parts to have molds made off stuff. Smaller parts don't cost as much to make, ship for less, and sell for less, so those are usually more cost effective to make before larger, more expensive stuff. Some of the small parts might get done in 2012 and some may have to wait longer. With these smaller parts, I'm unsure of what the prices would be for each individual thing yet, but all of them would be $100 or less for sure, some may even be as low as $25 each (plus shipping, of course). Here's the list of small stuff in order of how I'd bring them to market, and prices are guesses... -New Custom Look B-Pillar vents- $100 for the pair-A-Pillar gauge pod- $25ish-Gauge pod that mounts on top of the dash- $25ish-83 hood replacement scoop- $75ish-83 hood replacement vents- $50ish for the pair-Headlight doors- OEM look- $50ish for the pair-83 hood scoop- Custom look- something more agressive and different, but will mount in the same spot- $75ish-Headlight doors- Custom look- $50ish- Maybe something wilth little vents in them? This is a part I'm pretty unsure of if there's an interest or not. If there's not much interest, I probably won't bother. Well, there's an idea of what I'd like to offer and a rough idea of prices. Again, this isn't something that will happen next week or anything. I would suspect that it would be summer before any of it starts coming to market, and I bet it would be more than two years, maybe three before I would be offering everything on the list. Some stuff may not even make it to production if there seems to be little to no interest in it. Anyway, here's where I need your input, but there are rules. I know how these things have gone in the past.... Someone asks what parts you want and some good ideas are brought up, but there are also unrealistic parts that are brought up, like fenders, doors, etc... Those sort of parts aren't even on the table, so I better not even hear them brought up. In fact, if the part isn't on the list, don't even bring it up. Also, I don't want to know who's interested, because from reading all the other similar threads I already know there has been interest in all the parts I've listed. 20 people can say they're interested, but when it comes right down to it only 5 are actually willing to spend the money. Those 5 people are the ones I want to hear from. So, here's what I need to know from you. Given the list of parts and prices, I want to know how many people would want parts for those prices. And I mean SERIOUS buyers. I don't want to hear from people who would love to have them at that price, but can't even afford to keep gas in their cars. Basically if these parts were available, I want to know what part you'd be willing to buy, and have the funds to buy, if the part was actually available right now. So, whatcha think? Edited November 27, 2011 by Burton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRACK BEAST Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'd be willing to see what the upper hatch spoiler will look like. I been wanting another one. Good job burton to see your offering more stuff for the sqc community! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Quest Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I would want a new extended rear hatch spoiler and a new designed upper hatch spoiler. I'd also like to see what the custom head light doors would look like. Thanks for starting a true thread about this Burton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Header panel is something I'd be interested in! Always interested in the cowel hood too but I wouldn't commit to one. What's the scoop on the A pillar gauge pod? I custom made a 3 gauge pod for my manual belt car a few years back and it was a PITA but turned out fairly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StallionProject86 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 ..I'm in for the upper hatch spoiler if it suits the look I'm imagining from your description. Looking forward to production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Hid drop in head lights would be nice.... Perhaps a full led on the upper hatch as a 3rd brake light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOSTED88tsi Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I"ll take a extended rear spoiler with no third brake light, bump and if possible no rear wiper. i'm down to pay whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted November 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Hid drop in head lights would be nice.... Perhaps a full led on the upper hatch as a 3rd brake light? OK, here's where I have to clarify before things get out of control... This is not a thread for you to list parts you want to see made. If the parts aren't listed on my list, please don't even bring thm up. I've been here for nearly 10 years, and have heard of ALL the parts that people have brought up. I like the idea of an HID kit too, but as of right now, I'm not thinking about those because of the pricing. That's why I didn't list them, fenders, doors, etc. I know people have brought up those parts, but I also know they are the least economically feasable of all the parts ever to have interest shown. All the stuff on my list is stuff that is economically feasable for me to actually bring to market, and that is why I'm considering them. If they aren't listed I've already concluded that at this time they are not a possibility for me. Down the road, that may change. If it does I will start another thread about them and we'll go from there, but that kind of stuff would be years away. All that being said, if you want to bring up something about parts I listed, I'm all ears. For instance, I may offer a 3rd brake light in my upper hatch spoiler just like I may offer them in my lower hatch spoiler. Of course, adding stuff like that would make the part cost a little more, but if you guys want to give a little input about if you'd like 3rd brake lights instead of without, then I may just make them with 3rd brake lights only if there's more interest in that than having them without. If I did have them with 3rd brake lights, they will be LED units, and will probably be fairly long, unless everyone says they wanted smaller ones. I'm also open to input on the lower hatch spoiler. As of now, I was planning on thm not having 3rd brake light, as well as eliminating the antenna and wiper. However, if more people want them with the wiper or 3rd brake than without, then I may make them that way from the start. Again, they would be LED units. Anyway, pleas keep the input related to the things on the list. Thanks! Edited November 27, 2011 by Burton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_99 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Rear spoiler set for me, but Im sure you already knew that since we've talked about it in the past. BC_99 edit, I would want to eliminate the ant. bump and the wiper, if it had the led 3rd brake light thats plug n play cool, but without is cool also. Edited November 27, 2011 by BC_99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Cowl hood for my wifes quest with the trans am vents like the blue one on your 2.6liter site thanks john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convette Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Extended spoiler no lights needed. No issue on cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metric-man Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Burton, I like your idea about the upper hatch spoiler. Better to see some one that has some time invested in the community want to start a feeler for a GP on these types of products than a member that only has a couple dozen post. There are a couple othersmall exterior body parts that should be replicated or modified, but I'm sort of glad your not mentioning them, it might give some other members a chance to work on their own ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 So you want a list of serious buyers, right now, for parts available next summer? How much do the hoods weigh? Right now, I only have money for doors or a full glass front clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I"ll take a extended rear spoiler with no third brake light, bump and if possible no rear wiper. i'm down to pay whatever.Same here, no light, no antenna hole/bump, no wiper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted November 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 So you want a list of serious buyers, right now, for parts available next summer? No, I want a hypothetical idea of the number of serious buyers I would have. If I have 10 "serious" buyers now, then chances are I will have at least the same number of "serious" buyers, if not more, in a year when the parts are actually made. Saying yes now does not bind you to buying a part, but please only say yes to things you would actually buy. Like I said before if you can't afford gas in your car, then no matter how much you want it, you wouldn't be a serious buyer. As much as I appreciate those people liking the stuff I offer, I don't want to hear from those people. I want to hear from the people who actually can afford to buy the stuff I want to sell. How much do the hoods weigh? I haven't weighed them or the OEM hood to see the true difference, but I would say the FG parts weigh about 2/3 what an OEM part weighs. Right now, I only have money for doors or a full glass front clip. So you have a grand or two lying around for parts that may not exist for years (if at all), but you don't have any money for any other cool parts that will be for sale in a few months? That's a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidjc Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Other than what we have recently discussed, definitely (2) new style upper hatch spoilers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 what I would buy if the parts were made and within the price ranges you quoted: -extended rear/side spoiler with antena/light delete-83 style hood-perhaps a rear hatch spoiler, depends on how it looks. also please consider:front and rear bumpers that delete the steel bumper frames and foam cores, there is an easy 80 pounds to remove in these 2 items. yes, this is an unsafe modification, but I'm going to do it whether I have to make one or buy one, I'd much rather just buy one. Make the front bumper and airdam integrated into one piece while you are at it and open up the interfooler opening a little (not too much). Also, a center console and radio console with modular flat plate where the radios is to suit end user modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I haven't weighed them or the OEM hood to see the true difference, but I would say the FG parts weigh about 2/3 what an OEM part weighs. '83 hood, no latch, insulation - 34 lbs'83 hood, no latch, no insulation, center section and side vents opened - 32 lbs'88 hood, no latch, insulation - 32 lbs I have four hoods so a weight for the glass one is a must if I'm going to spend money on something I have enough of. So you have a grand or two lying around for parts that may not exist for years (if at all), but you don't have any money for any other cool parts that will be for sale in a few months? That's a shame. Yes, I have money for doors and a front end. I could probably fund the molds, but then people would have to buy them from me. Your GM push style production doesn't appeal to the direction I want to go with my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDodson Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 id be interested inupper hatch spoilera pilller with guage pod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 . also please consider:front and rear bumpers that delete the steel bumper frames and foam cores, there is an easy 80 pounds to remove in these 2 items. yes, this is an unsafe modification, but I'm going to do it whether I have to make one or buy one, I'd much rather just buy one. Make the front bumper and airdam integrated into one piece while you are at it and open up the interfooler opening a little (not too much). Also, a center console and radio console with modular flat plate where the radios is to suit end user modifications. I have already thought about a front bumper with a bigger IC opening, but the big problem is the bumper support. It would either have to be cut or removed, like you say. The problem with that is if I make something like that and someone wrecks their car and gets hurt because the support is gone or has been impropperly modified, and I get sued. Sure, I could make any buyers sign a release saying that my part makes their car not safe and I'm not responsible for whatever happens, but I really don't want to put my name on something like that. I'll keep the console thing in mind, because a few people have brought that up in the past. However, the demand is lower than most of the other stuff I listed, so it would have to wait til after I get the other stuff to market. Once again, I'd like to stick to the stuff on the list, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burton Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) '83 hood, no latch, insulation - 34 lbs'83 hood, no latch, no insulation, center section and side vents opened - 32 lbs'88 hood, no latch, insulation - 32 lbs I have four hoods so a weight for the glass one is a must if I'm going to spend money on something I have enough of. I'll get a weight on one of the FG cowl hoods I have here later, and also get a weight of the ones that are made over there once I get one. That will show potential buyers th true weight savings. I have a feeling the guys over there will make a lighter hood than I have because they have more talent. However, by saying stuff like this.... Yes, I have money for doors and a front end. I could probably fund the molds, but then people would have to buy them from me. Your GM push style production doesn't appeal to the direction I want to go with my car. ...the weight of my hoods, front clip or doors won't matter to you, bcause if you want to talk smack about me trying to come with cool parts lots of people want, but they aren't the parts YOU want, then you will never own any of my parts, wether those parts are a spoiler or a full front clip out of fiberglass. I suggest you take your pocket full of cash and start your own thread about fiberglass front clips and doors, then find a molder to make the molds and parts, then sell them to the 2 or 3 people who want them and actually have a grand or two for that sort of thing. I speciffically stated in the first post that FG fenders and such aren't even on the table and not to bring them up, yet you have. Also, I'm curious what this means.... Your GM push style production doesn't appeal to the direction I want to go with my car. Are you saying that because I am having this stuff done overseas? Yeah, I kinda feel bad about it too, considering I lost jobs and a house because of the collapse of the tool and die trade in the MI automotive industry- All of it caused by manufacturers using a corrupt UAW, and/or sending work overseas. Well, frankly, with the amount of demand, the only way that quality parts that people want can be made at a price point that is economically feasable in this community, I pretty much have to have it made overseas. I either have to make it overseas, or not make it at all. I don't really like it either, but I know how much of a perfectionist my old boss is, so I know he'll make sure his guys will be able to produce a quality part with excellent fitment. There is demand for parts in this community, but as a vendor, it's not easy to be able to make and offer parts at a price point that works here. There are always a few people who want one of the more expensive parts to produce/sell, and they have the cash to buy it, but most people are on a limited budget for the parts they put into their toys, and most times parts that keep it running or help it run better are WAY more important than cosmetic parts. I've tried to offer parts that I've made myself for a fair price, and have done pretty good on my less expensive stuff. The more expensive stuff like hoods sell, but I have to sell them for a price that I make half my usual labor rate on. If I can only sell 3 at $400 then how many would I sell at $500...1, maybe 2? Having them done overseas drastically reduces the labor cost, and allows me to sell things for less, and therefore sell more, A lot of thought on my part has gone into the list what I want to offer, and in what order. I want to start with parts that have shown the most interest over the years, and are the easiest and/or least expensive to produce/sell.Those parts can be brought to market quicker and for a price that allows more people to buy it. As time goes on, I will consider other parts that are more difficult and/or expensive to produce/sell, but no matter what, right now, I don't want to make anything that doesn't have at least 5 serious buyers for it. Here's what I have to look at as a vendor... The labor rate I try to make is $20 an hour. I can paint cars all day long at that rate because regular body shops charge around $40. Also, keep in mind that figure also pays for the electric bill to run my lights and air compressor, wear and tear on tools, etc... Now, lets say I make a hood off my molds. They were already made when I got them so I didn't have the initial mold cost. Between fiberglass matting, resin, gel coat, hinge/latch hardware and other materials, I've got about $200 into each one just for supplies. Then, I've got about 10-15 hours labor into it in order to lay it, trim it, test fitment, and smooth out any surface flaws from the molding process. At $20/hr, that's $200-300 labor. Well the hoods wouldn't sell at $500 and barely do at $400. Sure, I could sell them for $300 and make $8/hr for my time, but why would I do that when I got people waiting in line to paint their cars for $20+ an hour? Outsourcing this stuff not only makes it cheaper for everyone, but it also frees me up to do other work that I make a better labor rate on. The material cost is about the same, but the labor for them to make a hood would be drastically less. Now we'll talk about header panels. Let's say I want to make a mold. It costs about 3X or more to produce a mold, than it does to make the part in that mold. We'll say I use $200 in materials to make the mold and it takes me 20 hours. For me to make my labor rate, that's $400. Now, we have a mold, and no parts and it already cost $600. Then I make a part, and by the time I'm done, I got $75 into materials and 6 or 7 hours of my time. That mans I got $200+ into each part. Now, to make math easy, we'll say I got 6 buyers for a header panel. I have to split the $600 initial cost over those parts which means I now got $300 into each part. Now, lets say I have the parts done overseas. They make a mold for $200 in materials , and we'll say the labor is around $150. Now I only have $450 into the initial cost of the mold. Then they make the parts. I still got the same material cost into each part, but I only have to pay them $50-75 to make them, which puts the part cost at about $125-150 each. Now I gotta pay for the mold cost, so I split the $450 cost over the same 6 parts, and now each part's total cost is $200-225 each. The cool thing is that chances are with being able to sell the part for $200 instead of $300, I will have more than 6 buyers because it is now at a lower price point, and within the financial means of more buyers. Just for poops and smiles, lets run this fiberglass front clip thing thru the same thinking process.... A whole front clip is a huge mold. there would easily be $750-1000 into just the materials to make the mold, if not more. There could also easily be 50 or 60 hours into it, if not more. At my rate, that's $1000-1200 in labor to build the mold. To make things easy, we'll say the mold costs $2k to build. Now I gotta make the part. Again, we're talking a huge part so it's going to take a lot of materials, probably $400-500 worth. I'm sure it would take 25-30 hours to do all that needs to be done labor wise to make the part, and if I did it myself that would be $600. So, I got a cost of about $1k to produce the part, but I still gotta figure mold cost into the mix. To break even, I could sell one clip at $3000, 2 clips at $2k each, or 3 clips for around $1700 each, or 4 clips for $1500. Even $1500 is a lot of coin, and I sure don't see 4 people buying them If I can only sell a few hoods for $400, how can I expect to sell any more than one or two front clips, even at $1500 a pop. But what if I made it oversas? I still got the $1000 material cost for the mold, but the labor rate gets reduced to around $400. Now I got $1400 into the mold. The materials for the part still costs $400 or more, but now the parts can be made overseas for about $250. I now have $650 or more into each part. The final cost for one clip would be about $2k, 2 clips would be about $1400, 3 clips about $1050, and 4 clips for a little less than $1k each. That's a lot better price than if I did it, but we still have the problem of how many $1000 parts can I sell if only a few people come off $400 for a hood? Even if I could sell 3 or 4 units.... I could concentrate a bunch of time in making sure these parts were built, and break even on things. My problem with doing something like that is that while I was having the clip mold and parts made, there would be other molds for parts that a LOT of people want sitting in limbo or not being made until the clip was done. I could probably have all my other parts on my list brought to market in the amount of time it would take to get a quality FG clip mold and parts to market, just because of the cost and conplexity of the mold/parts. My goal is to start with the parts that show the most interest and would be at a price point to allow more people to be able to afford those parts. Once those are going smoothly, I can start thinking about stuff with less interest and a higher price point. Don't be a baby just because I'm not making the part you want yet. I'm in it to provide a lot of parts at a fair price to a lot of people., not cater to the handful of people who are lucky enough to have the most disposable income in the community. Again, folks, let's keep this thread about ONLY the parts from the list in my original post.Thanks! I've heard all the parts people want from years of threads like this. I highly doubt anyone will come up with a part that hasn't been brought up before. The parts on my list are the ones that I feel will do the best, be in the price range of more people's means, and make the most economical sense for me to bring to market as soon as possible. More parts may be offered later, but for now this is it. If you're interested in something other than what's on my list, go right ahead and start your own thread about those parts and fund the mold making and first parts yourself. Edited November 29, 2011 by Burton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF600 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm interested in the upper hatch spoiler depending on what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntercooledFlatty Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 extended rear spoiler with no third brake light, bump and no rear wiper, hatch spoiler, header panels and cowl hoods would prob be a good start for most i'd be in and i'd drive to come get em, NO SHIPPING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DryBear Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'd be interested in a new header panel and/or hatch spoiler. Do you have a link/pic of the header panel you were going to model it after? I would be interested in the extended spoiler, but I want to keep my hatch wiper and antennae (I actually use them ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_99 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 This is the one Burton made for me last year that is modeled after the one on Kates car.I think that is the one he is planning on doing.http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt93/BC_99/fiji/bW1jMS9EQ0lNL0NBTUVSQS9TU1BYMDA2Ny5qcGc.jpg BC_99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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