info on using dsm ecu,CAS,Mpi with ect

[DSMvirus1]

as it says. I searched the forums but didn't come up with much. I want to know, because someone said it's possible. Want to know all the info on using a dsm ecu and injector set up to run our g54b as mpi.

 

every little detail that anyone knows at all. 1G ecu 2G? How ot fashion on the cam and crank angle sensors would a 1G or 2G CAM ANGLE SENSOR BE USED? Fashioning it to the cam sprocket or what? Also would a single cam E6 engine ecu be used or dohc engine?

complete removal of the dizzy be needed? Or? Pretty sure the dizzy would be done away with since I know for fact that with dsms the injectors and spark is controlled by the waste spark coils and cam angle sensor and crank angle sensor are all tied into injector fire and removal of any of these you will get no spark and no injector fire.

 

also would a dsm knock sensor need to be used.?

 

depending on the possibility of this I'm willing to try it. Dsm parts are so readily available and my car is being a stupid s*** with this stock tbi garbage.

 

wiring is no issue. I need ALL known info on this pleaase!

[DSMvirus1]

after thinking it through more and more.. I think this setup shouldn't be too hard. I can do most of it, what I really must must know is how are the cam angle sensor and crank angle sensors fabbed on it to keep in correct time with that of a 4G63? I think for the coil issue I can have the wiring attached and not used and keep the stock dizzy just so I have some insurance that it doesn't spark at the wrong time and grenades or something. Also need to know if the knock sensor is a must? And if the cam and crank sensors are coming off a 1 or 2G thankss.

[lfatty]

Ill sell you my setup

 

I turned down the cas to fit the rear cam tower. Sealed it with rtv. Bolted it down with a stud off the back of the valve cover. Works great! No leaks! I was off by a deg so I fixed it with the dsmlink. The camshaft I purchased from technology with the drive already welded to the back. You need to use the 1g cas because it hase the cam and crank sensors in 1 unit.

 

Or I believe you can use a mighty max dizzy. Not sure

Edited September 12, 2011 by lfatty

[ucw458]

With a dsm link ecu you don't need both sensors. You can turn off the cam sensor input.

 

In my opinion it can and has been done but it's not worth it. A dsm link ecu isn't cheap. You will also need the dsm harness and other parts to make it work. After you get everything you need and figure out all the details you end up spending just as much as you would by getting a MS setup. The MS stuff will be all new while the dsm stuff will be used and may have glitches like wiring problems etc. I thought about doing this a long time ago and decided against it. A MS or preferably an AEM setup would be better.

[DSMvirus1]

can it be done, without dsmlink and both sensors, or with the 1G cas, or the mighty max distributor and not need a piggyback of any kind? and for fuel compensation for 2.0 ecu to 2.6 engine running 550cc rx7 injectors would be good ?

[Guest]

Not cost effective vs. going MPI standalone, AEM or Mega Squirt. DSM link is in the $500 range I believe, plus the DSM hareness, sensors, fab work etc. Plus DSM link is limited in functions compared to an AEM set up.

 

Can it be done? Sure. But why? When there are other options out there.

[ucw458]

can it be done, without dsmlink and both sensors, or with the 1G cas, or the mighty max distributor and not need a piggyback of any kind? and for fuel compensation for 2.0 ecu to 2.6 engine running 550cc rx7 injectors would be good ?

 

 

If you het it all worked out that way you will end up with an untunable MPI. You risk blowing your engine that way. It's not worth the effort.

 

 

There are too many good aftermarket standalone systems out there. It's not worth messing with stock stuff anymore. Maybe 10 years ago but not now. Aftermarket ECUs have evolved way past the DSM stuff you are talking about. In the end you will be much better off by choosing aftermarket.

[lfatty]

Ya the AEM is a great way to go. I went with the link because I was able to trade a turbo for the entire 1g setup w/ dsmlink.

[Bag-O-Chips]

I'm running an AEM v1 ECU part# 30-1300 with a 93-94 Hall effect 1G CAS. The Harness is a 92-94 1G DSM unit also. I one upped the CAS mod as I went along though. I turned it down as well as welded an attachment to it so I could notch it out for O-rings instead of RTV seals. As of now the car runs quite well. DSMlink is great but for the money, I'd step up to at least an AEM.

 

If you wanted to go the 2G DSM route, it wouldn't be that much different. 2G ECU(stand alone or not) 2G harness, and 93-94 Hall effect CAS. The only real difference is, you have to modify the CAS and switch the coil wiring around due to the signals getting inverted when you switch over from (2 Separate sensors) the crank sensor and cam sensor to just the single 1G CAS. in short, it's a little more labor intensive but.

 

There's also the EVO ECU route, this way you can re-flash to your heart's content. Same application follows, wire harness and Hall effect 93-94 CAS

any 4g63 after 1994 seems to use a Magnetic or Hall effect for CAS duty.

 

I recently switched out my neighbor's 98 Eclipse ECU to a 05 Evo ecu, just some pin switching on the ECU connectors and swapped injectors and it fired right up. Now I can re-flash it any time I need to. I'm used to using Open Source programs like Open ECU and it makes the whole process easy. Not to mention 96+ cars are still getting emissions tested here in IL so I had to make sure all of the Monitors would set and pass without a hitch. OBD2 is cake

 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150268066172773&set=a.224896732772.133311.603717772&type=1&theater

Edited September 13, 2011 by Bag-O-Chips

[DSMvirus1]

wouldn't a 95 dsm 2g ecu be flashable? it has the eprom or something i dont remember. only year that has it i think. if i was to use the 2g harness, 95 ecu, and 1g halls CAS, not worried about the coils. I know about the wire swap process on a 1g cas to 2g setup. pretty much talking 6 bolt swaps at that.

 

What i want to know is, how did you attach the actual cas? and biggest thing, how did you attach it and have it set in correct time with the g54b? not 180 out or 90 out or even 1 degree out? can it be done setting the same way as a dsm? or engine cyl 1 and tdc or what? also, can I use the 2g crank and cam instead? since those are non adjustable. What I would need to know is the gap on the metal for the sensor around the cam sprocket on a 2g for the cas happens at what point in the engine's cycle. the metal part im talking about is imagine a ring with two gaps, equal length in size and apart. im sure you know since you seem to know dsm's. Just at what point do those gaps hit that cas? where is the crank at, at that point? and same with the crank sensor. if that can be figured i think it wouldn't be to hard. main thing's i need to run is, crank cam sensors, injectors, knock sensor?, and maf right?

[Technology]

a 1G eprom ecu is reflashable and can be tuned without DSM link. This is actually pretty cost effective since the harness is long enough to reach everywhere in the engine bay, has connections for all necessary stuff, and if you were to use a DSM throttle body, you can plug it all right in. Just a little creativity or research is required for running power to the ecu and connecting into the B38 plug under the dash to run all your gauges.

[psu_Crash]

You can use a MM dizzy for sure and just use it as a CAS. The problem is that with the CAS in the stock G54B distributor location it will spin the opposite direction as a CAS mounted to the back of the cam like the DSMs have it.

 

I also vote that it's not worth the time/$$ to set up DSMlink or even a stock DSM ECU. Megasquirt, AEM, ... etc are all a much better way to go IMO.

[Technology]

An Evo ecu would be a pretty powerful tuning tool as well. A shop from MN called MAP has a 1000whp evo using the stock ecu.

[Indiana]

I could fix that car in five minutes if I had it in front of me and so could many others on here but you can't communicate what's wrong with it. You can't assume that fouled out spark plugs fire and that old dirty injectors dispense out fuel properly but many people think they do. It complicates their real issues if there are any.

[Shelby]

personaly IMHO why can't an aussie magna dist be use'd , exact oem replacement fit , other then tdc being 180 out , but plug wire location can be change'd or the cap remove'd completely

[ucw458]

personaly IMHO why can't an aussie magna dist be use'd , exact oem replacement fit , other then tdc being 180 out , but plug wire location can be change'd or the cap remove'd completely

 

 

It can work and does very well. It's just easier to find a MM or galant dizzy because they are in local junkyards.

[DSMvirus1]

hmm galant dizzy. so as i take it, what is needed is 1g ecu,injectors,galant dizzy, and a maf? it can't be that easy?? or everyone would do it.. that is seriously all junk yard parts too.. well i'm gonna study up some more on this and try it in the future modifying the stock intake manifold.

[chrisviper]

I posted this pictures on another thread , but thought this would be relevant, here are three options for you ;

 

1 - A hybridized Starion-DSM cam angle sensor , basically the bottom half of a G54 distributor with the DSM CAS fitted to it .

 

2 - Modified Might Max / 1990 and earlier Galant distributor .

 

3 - Modified 1991-1992 Galant-Expo distributor .

 

I have not tried option 3 yet but am in the process of doing so.

 

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/Starion/IMG_8841.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/Starion/IMG_8839.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/vprtech/Starion/IMG_8838.jpg

[Shelby]

Chris do you have a step by step how to modify the G54 dist to add the DSM internals to it ,

i have a couple spare of each i might give it a try

[chrisviper]

I don't have a detailed step by step and it was about 4 years ago when I did the one you see in the picture. I can tell you that we cut both of them (bodies) in the lathe , and put a register in one of them with a matching step in the other so that both were centered before welding. The hardest part was the shaft, we had to weld the CAS shaft to the distributor shaft, and honestly its not perfect , it spins ok, but you can feel a tight spot. If you could make a new shaft that would be better. That is why I think the Might Max or Galant distributor is a more practical idea. I will disassemble it and post some more detailed pictures if you want.

[psu_Crash]

That's a good looking adapter there Chris!

I wanted to make something like that but my skills with the CNC mill are novice at best. I'm not a machinist but have access to a variety of machine tools.

 

Chris what thickness did you make the adapter spacer for the MM distributor? I ended up measuring .222" so that's what I went with.

[DSMvirus1]

has ANYONE tried with the 2g non adjustable cas? and crank? Also, with doing the mod and putting it on the distributor, it is for sure that the cas spins the same amount of times per engine rpm as on a stock dsm? also what I am going to attempt to try is fit the 2g sensors to the car, finding out it's exact position at cyl 1 TDC, ( on stock ) and going from there, because they are non adjustable and the timing won't be off. does that sound like an easier or harder to do thing? another thing does the dsm coils have to be used? i'd rather not use them and use the stock dizzy if at all possible.

[Shelby]

for you guys looking into and at these sort of mods,,you do understand that TDC for these dist systems is not TDC as you think of it,, TDC is any thing from 70 BTDC to 90 BTDC and you have to know the oem BTDC amount befor you loc down the dist for actual mounting

 

this means the oem TDC mark on the dist assy like the 1G dsm dist or the oem magna dist is not TDC #1, that mark is the factory mark for the pre set advance with retard built in the soft ware to retard the fireing to base timeing

example if the factory tdc mark is 70 btdc with a 60 degree software retard the base timeing will be 10btdc

[DSMvirus1]

i'm talking about engine tdc, piston 1 @ tdc, if no dizzy is used and you use the 2g sensors, you can run it off the 2g coil packs right? and you would just have to line the sensors with the cyl 1 tdc of the engine to the same of a dsm, am i right? and then no other timing crap is gonna matter because the cas and crank will pick up for that.

[Indiana]

Megasquirt uses the same ignition trigger, and costs less and isn't 20+ years old.