lmwii Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I was saying that in the case he swerves back into your lane an hits you while going the same direction...Its really no different than hitting a deer. Even at 100 mph on a motorcycle weighing 600lbs, the collision would be the same as hitting a 3000 lb car at 20mph...no. try your numbers in this:mass x velocity^2 200663 foot pounds of energy for the bike40132 foot pounds of energy for the car put the car @ 45ish and you're even. as far as the deer goes i think in a side to side collision you'd be more in the ballpark, but there are too many variables to say one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 no. try your numbers in this:mass x velocity^2 200663 foot pounds of energy for the bike40132 foot pounds of energy for the car put the car @ 45ish and you're even. as far as the deer goes i think in a side to side collision you'd be more in the ballpark, but there are too many variables to say one way or the other. I guess you're right on the math. For some reason I was going off conservation of momentum not kinetic energy. Either way i feel like you're still getting hung up on the details and not really seeing my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Even at 100 mph on a motorcycle weighing 600lbs, the collision would be the same as hitting a 3000 lb car at 20mph... Is it bad that I'm laughing at this comment because it reflects what you're studying in college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I am a rider. And if you look at my sig, you could prolly guess what and how I ride. It's nice to get some nice curves in. And at the same time, you gotta be mindful of the residents of the area of where you ride. The driver of the truck would have had a better chance of killing himself while trying to hit/catch me. I'll just leave it at that..... Edited June 1, 2011 by TopDawg_43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 A long time ago I descided I wasn't gonna ride a bike because I feel it's unsafe. Cars have a steel shell and seatbelts protecting me. It's too easy to get hurt on a bike. It's all about priorities. I have a wife and I don't want to make her a widow. While I can get hurt in a car I feel I've increased my chances for survival by sticking to cars and staying away from bikes. The risk on a bike is just not worth it for me. But that's just my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerQuest Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I've seen lots of bike riders who ride legally and with respect. Most of them ride cruiser bikes, harleys, etc...a very few ride sport bikes. Most of the guys and a few girls I've seen riding sport bikes act like everyone else should move out of their way. They have no respect for road laws, other drivers, or anything around them. Kinda like the lead biker in this video. Obviously going too fast, flew around the truck at a high rate of speed, on a curve, across a double yellow line. If you want to ride like that, there are road course tracks available. At the very least, all he had to do was ride along behind the truck, or even stop and let the guy go on. Of course this doesn't excuse the truck driver, but the video's label is very misleading. The whole 'a*************** tries to kill a biker' theme is just whining by the biker because someone stood up to his crazy tail driving.If I had responded to this, back when I was a LEO, and the guy showed me the video, the lead biker and the pickup driver would BOTH have been cited for reckless driving, and the following biker would have been cited for unsafe operation, since he was obviously speeding and following the pickup too closely. I would have taken the camera, or at least the disk or tape if it had one, for evidence. Sport bikers and their antics have become such a problem around Dallas that the police are offering rewards for cell phone videos showing license numbers, and are then tracking down the bikes and seizing them, using the videos as evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerQuest Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 A long time ago I descided I wasn't gonna ride a bike because I feel it's unsafe. Cars have a steel shell and seatbelts protecting me. It's too easy to get hurt on a bike. It's all about priorities. I have a wife and I don't want to make her a widow. While I can get hurt in a car I feel I've increased my chances for survival by sticking to cars and staying away from bikes. The risk on a bike is just not worth it for me. But that's just my choice. I love riding, but I share your opinion. I have made calls on too many bikers who were just riding along and got killed because someone didn't see them, pulled out in front of them, hit a deer, hit a cow, etc....there are MANY more things to kill you on a bike than in your car..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I've seen lots of bike riders who ride legally and with respect. Most of them ride cruiser bikes, harleys, etc...a very few ride sport bikes. Most of the guys and a few girls I've seen riding sport bikes act like everyone else should move out of their way. They have no respect for road laws, other drivers, or anything around them. Kinda like the lead biker in this video. Obviously going too fast, flew around the truck at a high rate of speed, on a curve, across a double yellow line. If you want to ride like that, there are road course tracks available. At the very least, all he had to do was ride along behind the truck, or even stop and let the guy go on. Of course this doesn't excuse the truck driver, but the video's label is very misleading. The whole 'a*************** tries to kill a biker' theme is just whining by the biker because someone stood up to his crazy tail driving.If I had responded to this, back when I was a LEO, and the guy showed me the video, the lead biker and the pickup driver would BOTH have been cited for reckless driving, and the following biker would have been cited for unsafe operation, since he was obviously speeding and following the pickup too closely. I would have taken the camera, or at least the disk or tape if it had one, for evidence. Sport bikers and their antics have become such a problem around Dallas that the police are offering rewards for cell phone videos showing license numbers, and are then tracking down the bikes and seizing them, using the videos as evidence.so you would ignore the fact that this drunk driver just tried to play judge and jury and kill someone? hell of a cop you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerQuest Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 so you would ignore the fact that this drunk driver just tried to play judge and jury and kill someone? hell of a cop you were. I saw nothing on the video to prove the pickup driver was drunk. His swerving constituted reckless driving. If he was indeed drunk, then he would go for DUI. However, his speech was not slurred and he was walking straight when he got out of the truck, leading me to believe that the "drunk hillbilly" title was a slur against him by the video maker. As for trying to kill someone, if he had been trying to kill the biker, he would have swerved all the way into the ditch and crashed him, instead of leaving him room to go by. Again, no evidence on this video of attempted murder. There was also no reason for the biker to stop and get off at that stop sign. He could VERY easily outrun an F150 with a four wheeler in the back, which suggests they were taunting this guy and trying to start a nice 2 on 1 fight, which would explain why the guy got a tire iron out of his truck. Let's see the rest of the story.....the part of the video that shows what the cops did when they got there. I bet it didn't end like the crotch rocket boys wanted it to..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Back when I had my bike I was going through a tunnel in a convertible mustang behind two crotch rockets. the two of them dropped to like 2nd gear and one continually pulled his clutch in and would just rev the hell out of the engine. both had exhaust so the deafening drone of that exhaust had me so mad. I wanted to run them over just for being such idiots. But I let them go.. eventually they would complete darwin's theory. ... you mean you've never revved up or slowed down in a tunnel, built up boost and listened to the turbo scream and echo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerQuest Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 ... you mean you've never revved up or slowed down in a tunnel, built up boost and listened to the turbo scream and echo? uummmm, no. And to do it with traffic behind you, especially all the way thru the tunnel, makes you a 'tard, even if you're driving a quest...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 ... you mean you've never revved up or slowed down in a tunnel, built up boost and listened to the turbo scream and echo? We have quit a few tunnels around here, and for some reason, most biker feel the need to do that. It's just a waste of gas to me. You should hear it with about 100 bikes in a tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 uummmm, no. And to do it with traffic behind you, especially all the way thru the tunnel, makes you a 'tard, even if you're driving a quest...... To slow down I agree. To put it into 5th and just stomp the gas and let the turbo spool - eh -shrugs- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 uummmm, no. And to do it with traffic behind you, especially all the way thru the tunnel, makes you a 'tard, even if you're driving a quest......my point exactly. for about a 2mile tunnel to go 30 in second gear, and the other just hold his clutch and bounce the rev limiter? repeatedly? for 2 MILES!? I don't care what you drive, no one should be that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) To slow down I agree. To put it into 5th and just stomp the gas and let the turbo spool - eh -shrugs-more like going into second or first gear at 40 and doing spool and blow the whole way over and over and over and over... Edited June 2, 2011 by The Rabbit1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) I saw nothing on the video to prove the pickup driver was drunk. His swerving constituted reckless driving. If he was indeed drunk, then he would go for DUI. However, his speech was not slurred and he was walking straight when he got out of the truck, leading me to believe that the "drunk hillbilly" title was a slur against him by the video maker. As for trying to kill someone, if he had been trying to kill the biker, he would have swerved all the way into the ditch and crashed him, instead of leaving him room to go by. Again, no evidence on this video of attempted murder. There was also no reason for the biker to stop and get off at that stop sign. He could VERY easily outrun an F150 with a four wheeler in the back, which suggests they were taunting this guy and trying to start a nice 2 on 1 fight, which would explain why the guy got a tire iron out of his truck. Let's see the rest of the story.....the part of the video that shows what the cops did when they got there. I bet it didn't end like the crotch rocket boys wanted it to..... So now you're suggesting that he SHOULD exceed the speed limit and outrun the guy who tried to run him off the road? It sounds to me like you are extremely biased in this situation. You're trying to create POSSIBLE scenarios to defend someone who is clearly shown to be breaking the law. If someone tried to run me off the road.... The first thing I would do would be to find a safe place and stop because I'd be way too shaken up to be riding a motorcycle/driving a car. The truck driver didn't have to stop. Nor did he have to get out of his car (with a crowbar none the less) and try to confront the stopped biker. He put the truck in front of the biker when he swerved at him. Had the biker not switched his position in that lane the truck would have hit, and likely killed or seriously injured the rider. If I point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, but they dodge the bullet....does that mean I wasn't trying to kill them? <according to you. Since i left them room to dodge..then I wasn't attempting murder/ attempting to injure them. Edited June 2, 2011 by Frenchi934 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerQuest Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 There is a thing in law enforcement called 'first harmful event'. In this case, the first harmful event was the biker's ILLEGAL pass, on a double yellow, on a curve. I'd agrue who acted to "harm" first first here, they both cross the line at the same monemt, one for the sake of making an illegal pass, the other for the sake of reckless aggression. The truck was over the yellow a ways before the bike was beside him. He crossed the line to prevent the pass, not to dispute a pass in-progress. I think the bikers actions were illegal in that it was a traffic infraction (illegal pass) but it never constituted "harm" or excessive risk. There was no traffic, no opposing cars, it was dry, the road well lit. fiar visibility down the road. Yes it was wrong, but I'd argue it wasn't unsafe to the truck driver, nor anyone else but the biker himself. I think the truck drivers actions were criminal, it was aggressive and truly risky. It was a show of indifference towards the bikers life. In Oregon, that biker would at best get an illegal pass ticket, and perhaps an unsafe one (though it didnt' seem that way to me). The truck driver however would likely get a "road rage" ticket, which is far worse than reckless driving. It's a fellony I believe, a form of assult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 You're taking this to a level it doesn't deserve. You ignore the fact that I said the truck driver would be penalized, and continue to act like the biker was completely right in all this.There is a thing in law enforcement called 'first harmful event'. In this case, the first harmful event was the biker's ILLEGAL pass, on a double yellow, on a curve. If he was going to make that pass, and it pissed off the truck driver, then yes, the best course of action for him would have been to throttle it and go on down the road.And yes, the truck driver DID have to stop. It was a STOP SIGN. The key is the biker did not have to stop there, still in the road, and get off his bike. He unnecessarily escalated the situation. Had the biker pulled off somewhere, chances are very good that the truck driver would have drove on. The truck driver did not "get out with a crowbar". Watch the video again. He got out, after the biker stopped in front of him and got off the bike. He went back to the truck and got the tire iron when the second biker came up and made it a two on one situation. I guess your position is it would be ok for the two bike riders to gang up and beat him? And how is that any more right than him swerving at the bike?There were a lot of things done wrong in this video, yet there were also a lot of missed opportunities to defuse the entire situation. Reading the local bike forums, I discovered that this road is frequently used by sportbikers as a personal track. I'm sure this does not amuse the people who live on the road, and drive on it every day. While the truck driver's actions were not appropriate, I can understand his frustration with having to constantly put up with crotch rockets making unsafe passes and riding like tails......The bottom line of this whole scenario is this: If the biker had waited for a passing zone and made a safe, legal pass there would have been no issue. So yes, I blame the biker more than the truck driver, tho both were wrong.... If I were in this situation I would have pulled out one of my pistols and opened fire on the truck while driving. That is the end of my opinion. Then IF we go to court he can say he wasn't trying to kill me, and I can say I was trying to get him to quit running me over. The truck driver did not have to continue speeding and trying to run down a biker, on a curvy, obviously rural road, in speeds unsafe for a loaded pickup. He was trying to hit him. and I guess if you were on a 300lb machine with a 6000lb machine chasing you when it just tried to run you into a tree you'd just calmly pull over? riight.. biker had nowhere to stop at the moment. he got to a spot where he could distance himself enough so he could get off his bike before the truck got to him and then got off. Again, the trucker could've simply drove around and kept going, but obviously was looking for trouble until he realized he wasn't going to get away as easily as he thought. now he can rot in jail. Did you forget stopping a bike is not as easy as stopping a car/pickup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchi934 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) You're taking this to a level it doesn't deserve. You ignore the fact that I said the truck driver would be penalized, and continue to act like the biker was completely right in all this.There is a thing in law enforcement called 'first harmful event'. In this case, the first harmful event was the biker's ILLEGAL pass, on a double yellow, on a curve. If he was going to make that pass, and it pissed off the truck driver, then yes, the best course of action for him would have been to throttle it and go on down the road.And yes, the truck driver DID have to stop. It was a STOP SIGN. The key is the biker did not have to stop there, still in the road, and get off his bike. He unnecessarily escalated the situation. Had the biker pulled off somewhere, chances are very good that the truck driver would have drove on. The truck driver did not "get out with a crowbar". Watch the video again. He got out, after the biker stopped in front of him and got off the bike. He went back to the truck and got the tire iron when the second biker came up and made it a two on one situation. I guess your position is it would be ok for the two bike riders to gang up and beat him? And how is that any more right than him swerving at the bike?There were a lot of things done wrong in this video, yet there were also a lot of missed opportunities to defuse the entire situation. Reading the local bike forums, I discovered that this road is frequently used by sportbikers as a personal track. I'm sure this does not amuse the people who live on the road, and drive on it every day. While the truck driver's actions were not appropriate, I can understand his frustration with having to constantly put up with crotch rockets making unsafe passes and riding like tails......The bottom line of this whole scenario is this: If the biker had waited for a passing zone and made a safe, legal pass there would have been no issue. So yes, I blame the biker more than the truck driver, tho both were wrong.... Since I see that there is just no convincing you that you are wrong... I'll quit arguing with you. However I will say that for you to ASSUME if he had passed him anywhere else this guy wouldn't have swerved at him is absurd. You don't know either parties involved. You haven't interviewed them. And yet you continue to create scenarios that put the truck driver at less fault. Way to be objective. Look at the video. Thats what you have to go on. There was an illegal pass made, there was a clear attempt at causing a collision, and there was a small confrontation at the end, that both parties were effective at keeping from being a fight. Yet, somehow from that video you've managed to infer that they were somehow previously bothering the truck driver, that they were trying to start a fight, and that if they had simply waited to pass he wouldn't have swerved at them. The way you have responded to this thread even leaves me to believe that you see slowing down in a tunnel and revving the engine as a greater crime than trying to run someone off the road... I'm not saying the bike rider was right. I'm saying YOU are looking at this entirely wrong. I'm not going to reply again because Its getting too heated and I don't want to get this thread closed for anyone who has anything constructive to add to this thread. I'm also not mad at you, nor do i have a problem with you or anything, I just believe the way you are looking at it is wrong. Edited June 2, 2011 by Frenchi934 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 well first off this guy was NOT a HillBilly and he didn't act or sound drunk,, cause if he was in fact a Hill Billy he would have had his pistol and rifle and would have had a couple drinks , and the vid would not have end'd so peaseful as to saying if it was me i'd have use'd ONE of my guns on him while on the road , are you so scare'd you have to carry 2 guns on you ,, my my ,,i could sugest a couple tours over seas to teach you what being scare'd realy is . a bloody nose or blk eye is just pecking order play , lots of times the guy that broke your nose turns out to be your friend for life , any way it's certianly no reason to take a life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 well first off this guy was NOT a HillBilly and he didn't act or sound drunk,, cause if he was in fact a Hill Billy he would have had his pistol and rifle and would have had a couple drinks , and the vid would not have end'd so peaseful as to saying if it was me i'd have use'd ONE of my guns on him while on the road , are you so scare'd you have to carry 2 guns on you ,, my my ,,i could sugest a couple tours over seas to teach you what being scare'd realy is . a bloody nose or blk eye is just pecking order play , lots of times the guy that broke your nose turns out to be your friend for life , any way it's certianly no reason to take a lifeI meant whichever gun I had at the time. I've been chased on a bike by a car, it's no fun. Not on a busy commercial/urban street as I had happen. where I was literally splitting lanes to avoid being hit By some idiot that got mad my exhaust interrupted his damn cell phone call as I passed by because he was doing 20 in a 45 zone. I can imagine the nightmare having to negotiate turns with a pickup on your tail would be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 There is a thing in law enforcement called 'first harmful event'. In this case, the first harmful event was the biker's ILLEGAL pass, on a double yellow, on a curve I'd argue the timing here. they both cross the yellow line at the same moment. The biker crosses it to perform an illegal pass. the Truck driver corsses it to prevent that pass and to "send a message". What the biker did wasn't "harmful" to the truck dirver, but the truck driver deffinalty did "harm" to the biker. The biker didnt' even tail gate him really, it was just a case of he caught up to the truck, waited for a turn and a half, and executed a pass. It all took place in just a few seconds. It was not sustained harrasment to the turck driver. What the biker did was wrong, an illegal pass. It was however, not congested, there was no opposing traffic at the time, not a lof of cross streets, the road was dry, and well lit (middle of the day), the road surface in good condition, and fair visibility down the road. I see no risk to the truck driver to let him pass, there was no harm. What the trick driver did was criminal, it was total disregard for the bikers safety. It was unnessesary. get mad about an illegal pass? use the horn, or call him in to the cops. In Oregon, that biker woudl likely get an "illegal pass" ticket, or perhaps an unsafe one. The truck driver would however be subject to a "road rage" ticket, which is far worse than reckless driving. I believe it's a fellony, a form of assult I or II. A 1' swerve to express disgust is unsafe, but a sustained swerve to the point of total lane takeover and near collision, that is criminal. the subsequent chase just proves the turckers intent (rage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerQuest Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 If I were in this situation I would have pulled out one of my pistols and opened fire on the truck while driving. That is the end of my opinion. Then IF we go to court he can say he wasn't trying to kill me, and I can say I was trying to get him to quit running me over. Then you could go to prison. Proving intent by the truck driver, even with the video, would be very difficult. Proving intent with you shooting at him would be very easy. Look up assfaultjunkies.com, which is the mc forum the riders belong to, and there are a couple of threads about this, including some posts from people who work in local DA's offices who said the most the truck driver could be charged with was a misdemeanor traffic charge for wanton endangerment or reckless driving.The truck driver did not have to continue speeding and trying to run down a biker, on a curvy, obviously rural road, in speeds unsafe for a loaded pickup. He was trying to hit him. and I guess if you were on a 300lb machine with a 6000lb machine chasing you when it just tried to run you into a tree you'd just calmly pull over? riight.. biker had nowhere to stop at the moment. he got to a spot where he could distance himself enough so he could get off his bike before the truck got to him and then got off. Wrong. watch the video again. There was a point where the Ford got caught behind a mini truck and had to wait for it to turn, when the biker was nowhere in sight. He could easily have turned off and stopped at that point. He chose not to do so until he got to the stop sign, and then parked his bike in the road and got off. Again, the trucker could've simply drove around and kept going, but obviously was looking for trouble until he realized he wasn't going to get away as easily as he thought. now he can rot in jail. Yes, the trucker could have driven around and went on. I said that before, at the same time I said the biker could have chosen a better stopping place. Did you forget stopping a bike is not as easy as stopping a car/pickup? What kind of crack are you smoking? You are either a bad rider or a bad driver if you honestly believe this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerQuest Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 Since I see that there is just no convincing you that you are wrong... I'll quit arguing with you. However I will say that for you to ASSUME if he had passed him anywhere else this guy wouldn't have swerved at him is absurd. Why is this absurd? The illegal pass, on a curve in a no passing zone, was clearly the start of this entire incident. There is no evidence that any of this would have happened if it had been a legal pass. You don't know either parties involved. You haven't interviewed them. And yet you continue to create scenarios that put the truck driver at less fault. You don't know them, either. However, I have encountered people like them very often and have seen this situation over and over again. The players are always the same. Way to be objective. Look at the video. Thats what you have to go on. I did look at the video, and I am being far more objective than you. If the truck driver were intent on running over the biker, he would have done so when the biker stopped at the stop sign.There was an illegal pass made, there was a clear attempt at causing a collision, and there was a small confrontation at the end, that both parties were effective at keeping from being a fight. Yet, somehow from that video you've managed to infer that they were somehow previously bothering the truck driver, that they were trying to start a fight, and that if they had simply waited to pass he wouldn't have swerved at them. Nowhere did I say they were previously bother him. I said the truck driver had probably seen this before, since the road is frequently used as a personal track by the local sportbikers, something that is backed up by posts on their forum. And yes, I still believe if they had waited to make a safe pass he would not have swerved at the biker. That's just my opinion. If yours is different, that is fine. We do live in a free country. The way you have responded to this thread even leaves me to believe that you see slowing down in a tunnel and revving the engine as a greater crime than trying to run someone off the road... I'm not saying the bike rider was right. I'm saying YOU are looking at this entirely wrong.I fail to see how you think this. I have repeatedly said that both were in the wrong. It seems to me that this statement is based on me saying the biker should be ticketed. People who work for local prosecutors where this happened have posted on the bikers forum and said all the truck driver could be charged with were mis traffic infractions. see my previous reply for more info. I'm not going to reply again because Its getting too heated and I don't want to get this thread closed for anyone who has anything constructive to add to this thread. I'm also not mad at you, nor do i have a problem with you or anything, I just believe the way you are looking at it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leetaztsi Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 the guy in the truck seems to be such a failure that he tried to kill himself and failed at that so he went out and tried to kill someone else, luckily he failed at that too... the cops should just put him out of his misery at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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