Boosting problem

[Caliber308]

lets analize post #11 for you.

 

1. "you can get injectors here also" i at no point said mike you should buy injectors, i only offered him another option.

 

2. " cant you try the injectors outta nancys car just to verify it is or isnt your injectors." ... this is my real suggestion to starwolf in the post, that he spend no money and first try another pair of injectors.

 

now mike already had a set of injectors so he tried those instead and cured part of the problem but not all of it. so i make another suggestion to starwolf to spend a whole $30 and get them cleaned because mine were cleaned and have had great success.

 

then you go off the handle after that pretty much. you may want to go back and read it again cause i think your lost because at no where in any post i have did i make a personal attack on anything.

 

now if your done kicking and stomping your feet around maybe we can go back to mikes problem.

 

i still stand with my thoughts that he should have them sent and cleaned, if they are bad after the cleaning then they would have soon failed on him anyways so for $30 he saved being stuck on the side of the road. if those injectors come back bad then i have a couple injectors candi pulled from CJs 86 that were 87 injectors and wont work for her car. i dont normally come off injectors but if those dont work out for him then i would probably let him have these to see if they would work for him.

 

or i can sit here and argue more, i am up in the air about it right now.

 

 

Look, Stay away from my posts for help, and i'll stay away from yours. I don't agree with your way of doing things, and you don't agree with mine. We are best kept apart from each other.

 

CALIBER 308

Edited September 1, 2010 by Caliber308

[JAinsworth]

I've ran stock and delphis with no problems out of either, however, I don't run a stock setup. Both ways are workable with most of the starquests, but not all, especially a stocker. Just as one opinion/experience is a certain way and another person has a different one, doesn't make either one wrong.

 

What is wrong is attacking each other for their opinions or experiences that is trying to help a member out, but doesn't necessarily agree with your advice. Let's focus on advising and trying to help rather than personal problems with each other. Take it to PMs and get it off the boards.

 

Jimmy

[87B71Brad]

well....gonna let my other ar starquest member know that my car is running cooler and better back at 10 btdc. I'm so happy...just gotta figure out how to align the front end now...lol

[JAinsworth]

You need to get a quad alignment, not a front end one.

Jimmy

[Komeuppance]

This thread makes me LOL...

 

Try a .035 gap before going any lower.

 

-Robert

[87B71Brad]

You need to get a quad alignment, not a front end one.

Jimmy

 

Yeah I know...I'm just trying to get the front a lil closer because im a working white boy and a 4 wheell alignment is like 89.99 and I know I need new parts up front so they wont even try to align it..darn it

[Starwolf]

LMFAO holy arguments

 

Okay so i didnt read all the responses buuuut

 

Im going to change plug gap to .35 tomorrow and see if that changes anything because guess what...

 

Same problem today...still doing it im not sure why it stopped yesterday but im thinking its something other than injectors. I do plan on buying new injectors in the future though.

 

So as of now im looking at trying to figure out if its a timing problem or a fuel issue.

 

Any amount of boost (5+) my car doesnt jerk...it just stops accelerating and pops a lot...like anti lag as in fuel being burned in the exhaust kind of sound.

 

Maybe my plug gap is just too much? Maybe my CTS is just retarded..maybe my vac advance is bad? Maybe bad fairly newer bosch o2 sensor? Maybe bad mas? Maybe bad car?

 

lol...yeah i got my work cut out for me this weekend.

 

Btw when i boost afr dives to about 9 flat when this is happening...im really concerned its a timing issue but i feel its more of a fuel issue.

 

ONE question...if you unplug the CTS on a WARMED up vehicle...will the idle change? Mine does not...my idle only changes when my car is cold and the CTS is unplugged.

[Komeuppance]

Have you done a boost leak check yet?? Make sure all your intercooler piping is properly clamped and there are no cracks...

 

-Robert

[Starwolf]

I would think that as well and i dont have anything to pressurize them yet but i plan on doing it to mine and my girlfriends car soon just to make sure.

 

I know i got rid of one massive IC leak at the last branson meet and when i had that it never did anything like this. It also idles great and drives great aside from boosting.

 

Im hoping that im just blowing out my spark...or at least i hope its an easy fix.

[Komeuppance]

If you're blowing out your spark at 5psi you have issues that should be addressed instead of gapping your plugs down.

 

Tighten all your clamps again at least, only takes a few mins.

 

-Robert

[Starwolf]

I will go ahead and do that just incase...but im almost positive they are fine. Cant hurt to check though.

 

Yeah...its like instant when i start to boost too...i just have no idea what it could be...

[cyberquest]

i have my plugs gapped at .41 running 20psi and i have never "blown out" my spark.

 

i would try swapping parts off nancys to see if you can find the problem. i would maybe try her coil cause maybe yours is just crap or something.

 

you mentioned you knew what fuel psi was at idle but whats it at when your trying to boost?

[Starwolf]

sadly idk what it is when im boosting...gauge is just mounted on the top of the intake by FPR.

 

yeah i doubt its my spark...someone mentioned that it could be my vac advance leaking under boost but holding vacuum. Either way it seems like im running some kind of anti lag because it sounds like im burning fuel in the exhaust.

[cyberquest]

my fuel pressure gauge is mounted to my hood, real simple way to read it while driving...take the hood off

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/silverquest/BlackQuest/nats005.jpg

 

or get a lenght of hose dummy

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/silverquest/BlackQuest/nats001.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/silverquest/BlackQuest/nats002.jpg

 

obviously dont leave it like that, its only for testing!

 

 

another testing thing i have done is stick in two primarys since its easier to know a primary injector is working right cause if it idles fine then chances are its working fine. so if you have two primarys you know are good stick those two in there and see how it acts, again only for testing dont leave it that way. but that secondary you put in may have been ok but went south just that fast.

[Starwolf]

A little bit of an update...and sadly i dont know if it matters.

 

I have noticed that while cruising my afr is at 14.7 which is believe is right where i want it.

 

As soon as i start to accelerate...even holding it at 3 vacuum my afr goes to 10.8 ish.

 

Instantly when the car sees low vac like 3 then my afr DUMPS to super rich. Would this narrow anything down? Again it really doesnt seem like im just running rich...well maybe but again you can hear the popping out the exhaust like its an anti lag system or something.

 

Would a huge vacuum/boost leak act like this? Could my vac advance be bad only while boosting?

 

So many questions and ive been so busy with school the only chance ill be able to REALLY mess with it is this weekend (whew...3 days weekends are awesome)

 

Thanks everyone for the ideas and help so far!

[StarquestRescue]

Btw when i boost afr dives to about 9 flat when this is happening...im really concerned its a timing issue but i feel its more of a fuel issue.

 

ONE question...if you unplug the CTS on a WARMED up vehicle...will the idle change? Mine does not...my idle only changes when my car is cold and the CTS is unplugged.

Sounds like your cts is fine.

The problem is it goes to rich. The question is why, and how to fix it. Boost leaks will cause this. So will blow off valve under some conditions.

 

If there is a blow of valve on the car, remove it or block off the outlet so there is no way for boost to leak. When you get the car to run fine at 10-12 psi than you can try the blow off again.

 

You can make a boost leak checker really cheep. A hose to fit the turbo inlet is better as it will check the turbo and out let connection as well. A regulator and gauge is nice, but you can do with out if you can turn your air compressor down or cycle it on and off. I use a cheep well pump gauge.

 

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff45/StarquestRescue/2010%20Misc/DSC01838.jpg

 

I prefer the oem injectors, but There is a guy on here that sells the Delphi injectors for $162 shipped i think. For that price they are useful for diagnostic purfaces or to run till you get get the oem's cleaned, if you do not like the way the car runs on them . The truth is good oem are getting harder and harder to find.

Edited September 3, 2010 by StarquestRescue

[Starwolf]

So i did a little more testing today. The cts tested fine using the ohm test as i think i said before. The o2 was showing around .72v at 185-190 degrees. It says in fsm around 1v so idk if thats WAY off or what? I get no error codes during all this. A boost leak sounds more and more like its the problem...i figured my idle would go to crap. I will make a checker this weekend for sure to test it all out. No bov on the car at the moment and all the IC pipe hoses seem really tight and nothing "popped" off or anything.

[Technology]

Dang, dude. I would think to unplug the mass air sensor and see if it changes how it drives. Do the same with other sensors until you unplug something and it doesn't change.

 

Heck, unplug the secondary and drive it around. Does it act the same? Different?

It'll drive with crap unplugged, it's a great diagnostics tool.

 

My guess would be that you have a 1G mass air sensor, or are just somehow getting too much fuel from the stock system. Everyone's telling you to go with a .35" gap for the plugs. That's good for pump gas and stock engine stuff. I am currently at .25, and some evo guys on e85 go as low as .09". Nuts.

 

Anyway, check everything that could affect fueling. Mass air sensor, injectors, CTS, TPS, jet valves, look at the cam, see if it's worn, unplug the knock sensor, see if that's bad, check codes, etc. If it's a stock boost gauge, get a new aftermarket one. get back to us on this.

[Indiana]

Have you done a compression check? If your cam is off its not burning the fuel and just blowing it into the exhaust. Does it seem to have the same power as before or is it very underpowered?

[Starwolf]

VERY underpowered. I am not running a 1g mas..stock and aftermarket boost gauge.

 

One thing i know doesnt seem to affect my car when unplugged and car is warm is the CTS. When cold it will idle like crap with it unplugged though.

 

Car drives great normally...no real noticeable problems...only when you boost...and as soon as you do it sounds like the engine is firing in the exhaust and im not going anywhere fast...lol

 

Ill do a compression test this weekend..last time i checked which was a while ago i have 150ish per cylinder.

 

Maybe my TPS is bad? But wouldnt it or any other sensor throw a code?

[Indiana]

doesnt seem to affect my car when unplugged and car is warm is the CTS. When cold it will idle like crap with it unplugged though.

 

Maybe my TPS is bad? But wouldnt it or any other sensor throw a code?

 

That's what the CTS does and it would seem to be working fine. The TPS if its bad would cause it to stumble but you don't need a TPS that is moving either. You could take the TPS off let it hang there and still drive you would just have to make slow changes in throttle position but it won't prevent you from being able to drive. Its feedback to the ECU for wide open and idle wouldn't be there either.

 

That MAF, how is it mounted. Is your air filter clogged up, oily, wet? Is the honeycomb in the MAF mashed? Is the MAF wet? Is your MAF plug in upside down? See if any of the pins in the plug pushed back or a wire broke off. Grab all the intercooler couplers and yank on them, sometimes they appear to be connected but the tube isn't connected just poked in and especially if there isn't a rolled lip or bumps on the ends to keep them on better. Stock couplers if you have any, maybe one is torn or a hose clamp cut it.

 

Take the tube off of the compressor inlet, spin the shaft and see if your turbo spins as it should. Pull the wastegate actuator off the flapper pin and make sure the wastegate gets closed and has some force holding it closed.

 

You said this started after your had the distributor apart? You did set the timing afterward right and after the motor was warmed up? With the vac. adv. hose off, rev up the motor and watch the timing light and make sure timing is advancing so you know that the mechanical portion is working. Now put a hose on and suck on it and see that timing is advancing.

 

There's still the possibility that the secondary injector is sticking open when it fires or its so dirty it moves slowly and way too much fuel comes out. You can check that if you take the top of the throttlebody off, hold tight those injectors and put the primary clip on the secondary and have someone crank the motor over and you will see the injector spray the fuel. After they stop cranking there will still be fuel pressure there so don't let go, wrap a rag around them.

[Starwolf]

Ah thanks indiana...

 

my tps passed the sweep test back when i tried it...who knows now ill try it too.

 

The mas is stock...filter looks great and clean. Connector doesnt look corroded or anything and pins are straight. Can it be plugged in upside down? lol

 

 

Ill check the injector things and check the wastegate...

 

Also when i regreased the dist i actually didnt pull the distributor off the car...lol Took everything else off so only went as far as regreasing the internals. Hopefully nothing in there is messed up because my vac advance seems to change timing perfectly. Maybe the vac advance is leaking under boost? but why would my car run rich before it ever sees boost?

 

Thanks again everyone

[cyberquest]

could be rich cause of the leaking injector.

 

have you swapped the injector clips around, to see how it runs like that?

[Starwolf]

If swapping the injector clips around and everything with injectors are working correctly i would be running super rich at idle correct? Is it even safe to drive it around like this? (boost wise)

 

About to go outside and see what i can do by testing the secondary injector.

 

BTW Could a bad FPR cause this in any way? It passes a sucking test but im just curious if one could still be bad and cause this?

 

Also anything in the dist that could be going out electrical wise cause this?

[Starwolf]

OKAY So i tested the injectors including my old secondary.

 

First time i tried...neither injector would fire but i found out i had the incoming fuel line o-ring messed up and it was leaking all over my hand. I went and got another and tried again. Primary looked like it had a nice spray pattern and no drips...same with secondary but i tried it several times and it was starting to build up a puddle at the base of the injector...it never dripped but looked like it would eventually.

 

Would that prove my injector to be TRASH? Or is that just fairly common and not a BAD drip?

 

I tried my old secondary and it didnt even fire... so im not going to be using it anymore i guess lol

 

I still dont think that small amount of fuel build up would be causing my SUPER rich issue before i start to boost...and car to cut out so bad while boosting. I havent had time to check wastegate but it does pass the suction by mouth test.

 

Any other ideas? lol